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Old 07-02-2012, 06:00 PM
Bill Davidsen
 
Default powerdown restarts

Mateusz Marzantowicz wrote:

On 30.06.2012 23:32, Aaron Konstam wrote:

On Sat, 2012-06-30 at 08:36 -0700, Geoffrey Leach wrote:

On 06/30/2012 03:51:45 AM, Mateusz Marzantowicz wrote:

On 29.06.2012 22:37, Geoffrey Leach wrote:

This problem has been submitted to Bugzilla (836657), but I thought

I'd

ask here to see if there are any fixes lurking.

System is running 3.4.3-1.fc17.x86_64. When I systemctl poweroff

the


kernel reboots instead of powering off. Under Windows 7, power off
works as expected. All packages are up-to-date.

Any ideas?

What about shutdown -h ? Does it work as expected? Then try halt and
poweroff commands.

It's my understanding that poweroff is a backwards-compatibility
implementation of systemctl poweroff, which I have tried to no avail. I
should have mentioned that. It appears that halt is the same. shutdown
if a link to systemctl. Bottom line is that I would not expect any of
these to be any different, but I live in hope and will report back if
there's any difference.

I should also mention that systemctl poweroff works fine on my laptop
running the 32-bit version of Fedora 16.

One point, FWIW. Power off is essential for my application. Merely
halt-ing is no better than just leaving the system running.

Thanks. I don't wish to seem ungrateful -



I disagree with the other posters. There is a magic related to shutdown
poweroff and halt. If you look at the man pages you will find that
shutdown and poweroff have different options. It is clear that when
systemctl is called under a different name it checks the name and
potentially reacts differently. For example poweroff by itself will
shutdown the machine . systemctl called by itself will not.


If you check source code with is more reliable then any man page could
ever be, you will find that there really is nothing magical. Please see
file src/systemctl/systemctl.c in systemd source tree. Commands like
halt, shutdown and power off call the reboot() function. I can agree
that argument to reboot() may change between this calls but it's still
the same function they're calling.


Source code shows what the source code says, testing shows what it does.

I have several systems which either reboot or drop to some zombie mode on
shutdown from the WM (GNOME3, XFCE, Cinnamon) and on all of them

"shutdowen -h" doesn't power off (as the man page says is optional)
while "shutdown -P" does.

So there is a problem, and while I generally agree that no matter how you get
the the system call it will do the same thing, clearly some user interfaces do
not call powerdown as part of shutdown.


Don't know if that makes it a system issue or a user inteerface issue, but
hopefully that tip will give people a way to really power the damn thing off.


Oddly, hibernate does power down on all those systems, although as usual they
don't reboot cleanly.


--
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
"We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot


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Old 07-02-2012, 06:14 PM
Joe Zeff
 
Default powerdown restarts

On 07/02/2012 11:00 AM, Bill Davidsen wrote:

I have several systems which either reboot or drop to some zombie mode
on shutdown from the WM (GNOME3, XFCE, Cinnamon) and on all of them
"shutdowen -h" doesn't power off (as the man page says is optional)
while "shutdown -P" does.


That's not too unreasonable. I'd take -h to mean halt, and -P as Power Off.
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Old 07-02-2012, 07:04 PM
Richard Vickery
 
Default powerdown restarts

On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Joe Zeff <joe@zeff.us> wrote:

On 07/02/2012 11:00 AM, Bill Davidsen wrote:


I have several systems which either reboot or drop to some zombie mode

on shutdown from the WM (GNOME3, XFCE, Cinnamon) and on all of them

"shutdowen -h" doesn't power off (as the man page says is optional)

while "shutdown -P" does.




That's not too unreasonable. *I'd take -h to mean halt, and -P as Power Off.

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How do we boot up after "halt" or "sleep"? I quit using these commands years ago for lack of knowledge about booting back up. The man pages never gave me what I needed to know, and now that it has been brought up, I thought that I would ask and get my curiosity satisfied.

Thanks.
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:28 PM
Geoffrey Leach
 
Default powerdown restarts

On 07/02/2012 12:04:02 PM, Richard Vickery wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Joe Zeff <joe@zeff.us> wrote:
>
> > On 07/02/2012 11:00 AM, Bill Davidsen wrote:
> >
> >> I have several systems which either reboot or drop to some zombie
> mode
> >> on shutdown from the WM (GNOME3, XFCE, Cinnamon) and on all of
> them
> >> "shutdowen -h" doesn't power off (as the man page says is
> optional)
> >> while "shutdown -P" does.
> >>
> >
> > That's not too unreasonable. I'd take -h to mean halt, and -P as
> Power
> > Off.
> >
> > --
> > users mailing list
> > users@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.**org/mailman/listinfo/users<https://
> admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users>
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> >
>
> How do we boot up after "halt" or "sleep"? I quit using these
> commands
> years ago for lack of knowledge about booting back up. The man pages
> never
> gave me what I needed to know, and now that it has been brought up, I
> thought that I would ask and get my curiosity satisfied.

Most systems (or so I'm informed) have a "boot up" button that when
pressed starts the boot process. That's in addition to the power
switch. Some (mine included) don't have a "boot up" button, so its
necessary to cycle the power. Not nice, but what can you do? :-)
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Old 07-03-2012, 12:19 AM
Geoffrey Leach
 
Default powerdown restarts

On 07/02/2012 11:00:36 AM, Bill Davidsen wrote:
> Mateusz Marzantowicz wrote:
> > On 30.06.2012 23:32, Aaron Konstam wrote:
> >> On Sat, 2012-06-30 at 08:36 -0700, Geoffrey Leach wrote:
> >>> On 06/30/2012 03:51:45 AM, Mateusz Marzantowicz wrote:
> >>>> On 29.06.2012 22:37, Geoffrey Leach wrote:
> >>>>> This problem has been submitted to Bugzilla (836657), but I
> thought
> >>>> I'd
> >>>>> ask here to see if there are any fixes lurking.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> System is running 3.4.3-1.fc17.x86_64. When I systemctl
> poweroff
> >>>> the
> >>>>
> >>>>> kernel reboots instead of powering off. Under Windows 7, power
> off
> >>>>> works as expected. All packages are up-to-date.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Any ideas?
> >>>> What about shutdown -h ? Does it work as expected? Then try halt
> and
> >>>> poweroff commands.
> >>> It's my understanding that poweroff is a backwards-compatibility
> >>> implementation of systemctl poweroff, which I have tried to no
> avail. I
> >>> should have mentioned that. It appears that halt is the same.
> shutdown
> >>> if a link to systemctl. Bottom line is that I would not expect
> any
> of
> >>> these to be any different, but I live in hope and will report
> back
> if
> >>> there's any difference.
> >>>
> >>> I should also mention that systemctl poweroff works fine on my
> laptop
> >>> running the 32-bit version of Fedora 16.
> >>>
> >>> One point, FWIW. Power off is essential for my application.
> Merely
> >>> halt-ing is no better than just leaving the system running.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks. I don't wish to seem ungrateful -
> >>>
> >>>
> >> I disagree with the other posters. There is a magic related to
> shutdown
> >> poweroff and halt. If you look at the man pages you will find that
> >> shutdown and poweroff have different options. It is clear that
> when
> >> systemctl is called under a different name it checks the name and
> >> potentially reacts differently. For example poweroff by itself
> will
> >> shutdown the machine . systemctl called by itself will not.
> >
> > If you check source code with is more reliable then any man page
> could
> > ever be, you will find that there really is nothing magical. Please
> see
> > file src/systemctl/systemctl.c in systemd source tree. Commands
> like
> > halt, shutdown and power off call the reboot() function. I can
> agree
> > that argument to reboot() may change between this calls but it's
> still
> > the same function they're calling.
> >
> Source code shows what the source code says, testing shows what it
> does.
>
> I have several systems which either reboot or drop to some zombie
> mode
> on
> shutdown from the WM (GNOME3, XFCE, Cinnamon) and on all of them
> "shutdowen -h" doesn't power off (as the man page says is optional)
> while "shutdown -P" does.
>
> So there is a problem, and while I generally agree that no matter how
> you get
> the the system call it will do the same thing, clearly some user
> interfaces do
> not call powerdown as part of shutdown.
>
> Don't know if that makes it a system issue or a user inteerface
> issue,
> but
> hopefully that tip will give people a way to really power the damn
> thing off.
>
> Oddly, hibernate does power down on all those systems, although as
> usual they
> don't reboot cleanly.

Alas, while shutdown -P says "The system is going down for power-
off", it lies. poweroff -h fails to power off as well. Both reboot.

Presumably poweroff (by either route) eventually communicates with the
BIOS. Does anyone know if this is correct?
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Old 07-03-2012, 04:38 AM
Paweł Brodacki
 
Default powerdown restarts

2012/7/2 Richard Vickery <richard.vickeryrv@gmail.com>:
> On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Joe Zeff <joe@zeff.us> wrote:
> How do we boot up after "halt" or "sleep"? I quit using these commands years
> ago for lack of knowledge about booting back up. The man pages never gave me
> what I needed to know, and now that it has been brought up, I thought that I
> would ask and get my curiosity satisfied.
>
> Thanks.
>

I'm not using "sleep", but "halt" (stop the system, leave it powered
up) is very handy for systems with an UPS. On prolonged power loss UPS
will tell the system to halt, then wait a bit to give it time, then
cut the power. When sweet electricity starts flowing from the socket
in the wall once again, UPS gives power back to the system, which then
restores itself to the last power state, i.e. powered up. This results
in a nice boot and the machine is alive and kicking once again.

If the system was shut down, then it would just remain shut down after
power was restored.

Regards,
Paweł
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:11 AM
"Wolfgang S. Rupprecht"
 
Default powerdown restarts

Paweł Brodacki <pawel.brodacki@gmail.com> writes:
> If the system was shut down, then it would just remain shut down after
> power was restored.

Modern BIOSes often have a setting to turn on after a power restore.
That lets you power down the system right away and save battery, yet
come back up when the power returns. Comsumer UPS's seem to all take a
very much longer time to recharge the batteries vs. how quickly they
discharge. Saving battery charge can become fairly important if the UPS
only has a 10 minute runtime and you expect more power outages before
things stabilize.

-wolfgang
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:42 PM
Bill Davidsen
 
Default powerdown restarts

Richard Vickery wrote:

On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Joe Zeff <joe@zeff.us <mailto:joe@zeff.us>> wrote:

On 07/02/2012 11:00 AM, Bill Davidsen wrote:

I have several systems which either reboot or drop to some zombie mode
on shutdown from the WM (GNOME3, XFCE, Cinnamon) and on all of them
"shutdowen -h" doesn't power off (as the man page says is optional)
while "shutdown -P" does.


That's not too unreasonable. I'd take -h to mean halt, and -P as Power Off.

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How do we boot up after "halt" or "sleep"? I quit using these commands years ago
for lack of knowledge about booting back up. The man pages never gave me what I
needed to know, and now that it has been brought up, I thought that I would ask
and get my curiosity satisfied.

Usually a single push of the power button if pressing ENTER doesn't. It is,
unfortunately, BIOS dependent behavior, and can't be blamed on Linux in any way.



--
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
"We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot


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Old 07-03-2012, 06:07 PM
Bill Davidsen
 
Default powerdown restarts

Paweł Brodacki wrote:

2012/7/2 Richard Vickery <richard.vickeryrv@gmail.com>:

On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Joe Zeff <joe@zeff.us> wrote:
How do we boot up after "halt" or "sleep"? I quit using these commands years
ago for lack of knowledge about booting back up. The man pages never gave me
what I needed to know, and now that it has been brought up, I thought that I
would ask and get my curiosity satisfied.

Thanks.



I'm not using "sleep", but "halt" (stop the system, leave it powered
up) is very handy for systems with an UPS. On prolonged power loss UPS
will tell the system to halt, then wait a bit to give it time, then
cut the power. When sweet electricity starts flowing from the socket
in the wall once again, UPS gives power back to the system, which then
restores itself to the last power state, i.e. powered up. This results
in a nice boot and the machine is alive and kicking once again.

If the system was shut down, then it would just remain shut down after
power was restored.

Depending on the behavior options in both the UPS and BIOS, you can do many
things to suit your needs. My power is rarely off for long, so I prefer to stay
up for a while. If I lose net connection (ISP dropped) I change the spin down
time on data drives to a lower value, root and swap are on ssd, and CPU speed is
already set to drop to slow without low.


A custom script can help give you the policy you need.

Sounds as if you are just doing a clean shutdown, and for many people that's the
important thing, have the system do the best thing for your own needs.



--
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
"We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot



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