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Old 06-26-2012, 07:22 PM
"David A. De Graaf"
 
Default Pulseaudio strikes again!

Does anyone know how to allow root and users other than me to use the
sound system?

Ever since pulseaudio was introduced in Fedora 8 and Mr. Lennart
Poettering inflicted his peculiar ideas of security on us, the default
installation hasn't worked properly, despite many BZ's and copious
complaints! Specifically, pulseaudio invents the "seat" and only the
one person in the "seat" can use the sound system. This precludes
having root, or anyone else, from generating sounds - presumably it's a
security risk. Bosh!

A simple workaround was found - remove the alsa-plugins-pulseaudio
package, and edit /etc/group, adding everyone on the system to the
audio group (what a nutty idea). That removed the restrictions and
restored sanity. Root could even generate a login tune via the
/etc/rc.d/rc.local script, before anyone had logged on.

With F17, this escape hatch has been removed.
With the alsa-plugins-pulseaudio package absent, a simple command to
play a sound yields a core dump:

$ play /usr/share/sounds/KDE-Sys-Log-In.ogg
dsp_protocol_open_node(): Could not open pcm device file /dev/dsptask/pcm2
Segmentation fault (core dumped)

The pcm device file is, indeed, absent from the file system.
In fact, no sounds whatever can be generated by any of the standard
methods I use. (Except that Windows running inside VirtualBox seems
able to manage it.)

To get any sound at all, I've had to reinstall the
alsa-plugins-pulseaudio package, but this allows only me to generate
sound and destroys my crontab-simulated grandfather clock, among other
things.

On an i386 netbook, F17 sound works fine, as it always has, with the
alsa-plugins-pulseaudio package removed. The play program doesn't
complain about the absence of /dev/dsptask/pcm2, but just plays the
sound.

What new magic incantation is now required that I may be permitted
to use my x86_64 sound system fully?

--
David A. De Graaf DATIX, Inc. Hendersonville, NC
dad@datix.us www.datix.us
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Old 06-27-2012, 01:24 AM
"Mikkel L. Ellertson"
 
Default Pulseaudio strikes again!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 06/26/2012 02:22 PM, David A. De Graaf wrote:
> Does anyone know how to allow root and users other than me to use the
> sound system?
>
> Ever since pulseaudio was introduced in Fedora 8 and Mr. Lennart
> Poettering inflicted his peculiar ideas of security on us, the default
> installation hasn't worked properly, despite many BZ's and copious
> complaints! Specifically, pulseaudio invents the "seat" and only the
> one person in the "seat" can use the sound system. This precludes
> having root, or anyone else, from generating sounds - presumably it's a
> security risk. Bosh!
Well, that depends on if you have a microphone attached to your
system, and consider allowing a remote user to listen to what is
going on by your computer a security risk.
>
> A simple workaround was found - remove the alsa-plugins-pulseaudio
> package, and edit /etc/group, adding everyone on the system to the
> audio group (what a nutty idea). That removed the restrictions and
> restored sanity. Root could even generate a login tune via the
> /etc/rc.d/rc.local script, before anyone had logged on.
>
> With F17, this escape hatch has been removed.
> With the alsa-plugins-pulseaudio package absent, a simple command to
> play a sound yields a core dump:
>
> $ play /usr/share/sounds/KDE-Sys-Log-In.ogg
> dsp_protocol_open_node(): Could not open pcm device file
/dev/dsptask/pcm2
> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
>
> The pcm device file is, indeed, absent from the file system.
> In fact, no sounds whatever can be generated by any of the standard
> methods I use. (Except that Windows running inside VirtualBox seems
> able to manage it.)
It sounds like the snd_pcm module did not get loaded.
>
> To get any sound at all, I've had to reinstall the
> alsa-plugins-pulseaudio package, but this allows only me to generate
> sound and destroys my crontab-simulated grandfather clock, among other
> things.
>
> On an i386 netbook, F17 sound works fine, as it always has, with the
> alsa-plugins-pulseaudio package removed. The play program doesn't
> complain about the absence of /dev/dsptask/pcm2, but just plays the
> sound.
>
> What new magic incantation is now required that I may be permitted
> to use my x86_64 sound system fully?
>
You may want to look into running PA as a system daemon instead of a
user daemon.


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Old 06-27-2012, 02:19 AM
Robert Arkiletian
 
Default Pulseaudio strikes again!

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 12:22 PM, David A. De Graaf <dad@datix.us> wrote:
> Does anyone know how to allow root and users other than me to use the
> sound system?
>
> Ever since pulseaudio was introduced in Fedora 8 and Mr. Lennart
> Poettering inflicted his peculiar ideas of security on us, the default
> installation hasn't worked properly, despite many BZ's and copious
> complaints! *Specifically, pulseaudio invents the "seat" and only the
> one person in the "seat" can use the sound system. *This precludes
> having root, or anyone else, from generating sounds - presumably it's a
> security risk. *Bosh!

Yup. Ran into this problem trying to make an alarm clock with atd or
crond. Can't have sound unless you are logged in. I had to totally
remove PA and just use alsa. But I know that's not possible any more.
Now we have systemd too. Joy.

--
Robert Arkiletian
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:57 PM
"David A. De Graaf"
 
Default Pulseaudio strikes again!

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 08:24:05PM -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 06/26/2012 02:22 PM, David A. De Graaf wrote:
> > Does anyone know how to allow root and users other than me to use the
> > sound system?
> >
> > Ever since pulseaudio was introduced in Fedora 8 and Mr. Lennart
> > Poettering inflicted his peculiar ideas of security on us, the default
> > installation hasn't worked properly, despite many BZ's and copious
> > complaints! Specifically, pulseaudio invents the "seat" and only the
> > one person in the "seat" can use the sound system. This precludes
> > having root, or anyone else, from generating sounds - presumably it's a
> > security risk. Bosh!
> Well, that depends on if you have a microphone attached to your
> system, and consider allowing a remote user to listen to what is
> going on by your computer a security risk.

There's the microphone, the camera and the loudspeaker. Surely
software can distinguish between them. In my case, at home, I'm
really not worried about secret spying. And if it did occur, I'd
handle the problem with social intervention, not software blockage.
What annoys me is the inability for anyone on the system to produce
sounds without arbitrary restrictions.

> >
> > A simple workaround was found - remove the alsa-plugins-pulseaudio
> > package, and edit /etc/group, adding everyone on the system to the
> > audio group (what a nutty idea). That removed the restrictions and
> > restored sanity. Root could even generate a login tune via the
> > /etc/rc.d/rc.local script, before anyone had logged on.
> >
> > With F17, this escape hatch has been removed.
> > With the alsa-plugins-pulseaudio package absent, a simple command to
> > play a sound yields a core dump:
> >
> > $ play /usr/share/sounds/KDE-Sys-Log-In.ogg
> > dsp_protocol_open_node(): Could not open pcm device file
> /dev/dsptask/pcm2
> > Segmentation fault (core dumped)
> >
> > The pcm device file is, indeed, absent from the file system.
> > In fact, no sounds whatever can be generated by any of the standard
> > methods I use. (Except that Windows running inside VirtualBox seems
> > able to manage it.)
> It sounds like the snd_pcm module did not get loaded.

Now that sounds like a clue. Can you be more specific?
I can find no package with "snd_pcm" in its name.

Also, did I mention that sound, and the
yum erase alsa-plugins-pulseaudio
workaround, works perfectly on an i386 netbook. On that netbook
the file /dev/dsptask/pcm2 is also missing; yet the 'play' program
works anyway.
It suggests a bug in the x86_64 version of 'play', except that all the
other sound-producing programs also don't work. Therefore, I deduce
it's the fault of pulseaudio...

> >
> > To get any sound at all, I've had to reinstall the
> > alsa-plugins-pulseaudio package, but this allows only me to generate
> > sound and destroys my crontab-simulated grandfather clock, among other
> > things.
> >
> > On an i386 netbook, F17 sound works fine, as it always has, with the
> > alsa-plugins-pulseaudio package removed. The play program doesn't
> > complain about the absence of /dev/dsptask/pcm2, but just plays the
> > sound.
> >
> > What new magic incantation is now required that I may be permitted
> > to use my x86_64 sound system fully?
> >
> You may want to look into running PA as a system daemon instead of a
> user daemon.

I have done so, and it didn't work. Specifically, I put these
commands into /etc/rc.d/rc.local:
# Start the pulseaudio daemon
/usr/bin/pkill -9 pulseaudio
/usr/bin/pulseaudio --kill
sleep 1
echo "/usr/bin/pulseaudio -D --system --log-target=syslog"
/usr/bin/pulseaudio -D --system --log-target=syslog
/usr/bin/play /usr/share/sounds/KDE-Im-Phone-Ring.ogg

Upon rebooting, no sound was produced, but a pulseaudio daemon was
found running with the --system option. Neither I nor root could produce
any sound. The 'play' command ran for a time commensurate with its
usual running time, but no sound emanated from the speakers.

Neither 'pulseaudio --kill' nor 'pkill pulseaudio' were able to
stop the daemon, either as root or as dad. root running 'kill -9 <pid>'
did kill it. With it gone, I could once again generate sound, but root
could not.

Perhaps I misunderstand the correct way to start a "system daemon" of
pulseaudio. I did also edit /etc/group, adding root and dad to groups
audio, pulse, pulse-access just for good measure.

Reading 'man pulseaudio' tells me the --system option is not
recommended. Perhaps the consequences are so dire and
world-threatening that the developer has made it inoperative.
It tells us that a special configuration is needed, but provides no
clue what that may be.

--
David A. De Graaf DATIX, Inc. Hendersonville, NC
dad@datix.us www.datix.us

We have enough youth, how about a fountain of SMART?
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:59 PM
"Mikkel L. Ellertson"
 
Default Pulseaudio strikes again!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 06/27/2012 10:57 AM, David A. De Graaf wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 08:24:05PM -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
>> You may want to look into running PA as a system daemon instead of a
>> user daemon.
>
> I have done so, and it didn't work. Specifically, I put these
> commands into /etc/rc.d/rc.local:
> # Start the pulseaudio daemon
> /usr/bin/pkill -9 pulseaudio
> /usr/bin/pulseaudio --kill
> sleep 1
> echo "/usr/bin/pulseaudio -D --system --log-target=syslog"
> /usr/bin/pulseaudio -D --system --log-target=syslog
> /usr/bin/play /usr/share/sounds/KDE-Im-Phone-Ring.ogg
>
> Upon rebooting, no sound was produced, but a pulseaudio daemon was
> found running with the --system option. Neither I nor root could
produce
> any sound. The 'play' command ran for a time commensurate with its
> usual running time, but no sound emanated from the speakers.
>
> Neither 'pulseaudio --kill' nor 'pkill pulseaudio' were able to
> stop the daemon, either as root or as dad. root running 'kill -9 <pid>'
> did kill it. With it gone, I could once again generate sound, but root
> could not.
>
> Perhaps I misunderstand the correct way to start a "system daemon" of
> pulseaudio. I did also edit /etc/group, adding root and dad to groups
> audio, pulse, pulse-access just for good measure.
>
> Reading 'man pulseaudio' tells me the --system option is not
> recommended. Perhaps the consequences are so dire and
> world-threatening that the developer has made it inoperative.
> It tells us that a special configuration is needed, but provides no
> clue what that may be.
>

You need to edit the files in /etc/pulse. You at lease need to
modify the daemon.conf file. You will probably want uncomment
daemonize and system-instance and change them to yes.

Mikkel

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Old 06-29-2012, 06:30 PM
"David A. De Graaf"
 
Default Pulseaudio strikes again!

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 12:59:30PM -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 06/27/2012 10:57 AM, David A. De Graaf wrote:
> > On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 08:24:05PM -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> >> You may want to look into running PA as a system daemon instead of a
> >> user daemon.
> >
> > I have done so, and it didn't work. Specifically, I put these
> > commands into /etc/rc.d/rc.local:
> > # Start the pulseaudio daemon
> > /usr/bin/pkill -9 pulseaudio
> > /usr/bin/pulseaudio --kill
> > sleep 1
> > echo "/usr/bin/pulseaudio -D --system --log-target=syslog"
> > /usr/bin/pulseaudio -D --system --log-target=syslog
> > /usr/bin/play /usr/share/sounds/KDE-Im-Phone-Ring.ogg
> >
>
> You need to edit the files in /etc/pulse. You at lease need to
> modify the daemon.conf file. You will probably want uncomment
> daemonize and system-instance and change them to yes.

Thank you Mikkel, for your attempt to help.
I did edit /etc/pulse/daemon.conf to set these non-standard values:
daemonize = yes
use-pid-file = no
system-instance = yes
but it didn't change anything. I didn't see anything else in
/etc/pulse/* that seemed relevant. The system daemon ran but remained
impervious to any sound generation by root or dad. Curiously, skype
was able to produce its sound effects.

>
> Mikkel

--
David A. De Graaf DATIX, Inc. Hendersonville, NC
dad@datix.us www.datix.us


The problem with the world is stupidity. I'm not saying there should
be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself?
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:31 PM
Bill Davidsen
 
Default Pulseaudio strikes again!

Robert Arkiletian wrote:

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 12:22 PM, David A. De Graaf <dad@datix.us> wrote:

Does anyone know how to allow root and users other than me to use the
sound system?

Ever since pulseaudio was introduced in Fedora 8 and Mr. Lennart
Poettering inflicted his peculiar ideas of security on us, the default
installation hasn't worked properly, despite many BZ's and copious
complaints! Specifically, pulseaudio invents the "seat" and only the
one person in the "seat" can use the sound system. This precludes
having root, or anyone else, from generating sounds - presumably it's a
security risk. Bosh!


Yup. Ran into this problem trying to make an alarm clock with atd or
crond. Can't have sound unless you are logged in. I had to totally
remove PA and just use alsa. But I know that's not possible any more.
Now we have systemd too. Joy.


Security. If it can't be used it can't be misused.

--
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
"We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot


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Old 06-29-2012, 10:33 PM
Reindl Harald
 
Default Pulseaudio strikes again!

Am 30.06.2012 00:31, schrieb Bill Davidsen:
> Robert Arkiletian wrote:
>> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 12:22 PM, David A. De Graaf <dad@datix.us> wrote:
>>> Does anyone know how to allow root and users other than me to use the
>>> sound system?
>>>
>>> Ever since pulseaudio was introduced in Fedora 8 and Mr. Lennart
>>> Poettering inflicted his peculiar ideas of security on us, the default
>>> installation hasn't worked properly, despite many BZ's and copious
>>> complaints! Specifically, pulseaudio invents the "seat" and only the
>>> one person in the "seat" can use the sound system. This precludes
>>> having root, or anyone else, from generating sounds - presumably it's a
>>> security risk. Bosh!
>>
>> Yup. Ran into this problem trying to make an alarm clock with atd or
>> crond. Can't have sound unless you are logged in. I had to totally
>> remove PA and just use alsa. But I know that's not possible any more.
>> Now we have systemd too. Joy.
>>
> Security. If it can't be used it can't be misused

in the context of sound this is nonsense

if i play music there is no dmaned reason that it
stops playing after switch with CTRL+ALT+F2

it is a poor development not having a simple option
for systemdwide sound these days

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Old 06-29-2012, 10:44 PM
Joe Zeff
 
Default Pulseaudio strikes again!

On 06/29/2012 03:31 PM, Bill Davidsen wrote:



Security. If it can't be used it can't be misused.


If it can't be used, it's worthless. Pulseaudio has always struck me as
a solution looking for a problem and failing to find one.

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Old 06-30-2012, 01:53 AM
suvayu ali
 
Default Pulseaudio strikes again!

On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 12:44 AM, Joe Zeff <joe@zeff.us> wrote:
> Pulseaudio has always struck me as a solution looking for a problem and
> failing to find one.

I thought it solved the problem of multiple applications play some
sound simultaneously on the same device? It's not as rare as you might
think; a voip call while you are listening to music for example.

Or am I misunderstanding something?

--
Suvayu

Open source is the future. It sets us free.
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