FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Redhat > Fedora User

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 03-25-2012, 01:50 AM
Reindl Harald
 
Default Fedora disimprovements: am I alone?

Am 25.03.2012 04:00, schrieb Joe Zeff:
> On 03/24/2012 06:40 PM, Michael Hennebry wrote:
>> As a rule, someone who says whatever-agnostic means whatever-apathetic.
>
> Possibly referring to it as "DE indifferent" would be best.

why do you not realize that all your stiff is off-topic?
the answer to a question was "system-config-services"
NOBODY except you brouth DE's in the game
why? because this doe snot matter
if someone needs program X yum will pull the deps
that is why package managment exists

--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
 
Old 03-25-2012, 09:05 AM
Timothy Murphy
 
Default Fedora disimprovements: am I alone?

Reindl Harald wrote:

> the answer to a question was "system-config-services"

I must confess that I was not aware of this program.
In general I've found system-config-* programs -
in particular system-config-printer and system-config-network -
are more likely to cause problems than solve them.

In any case, thank you for pointing out this program
(though you could have done it more courteously).

However, I just tried the program on my Fedora-16/KDE laptop,
and it seems to be less than the complete answer.
Enable, Disable and Start are greyed out on my system,
and there does not appear to be a Status tab.


--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College Dublin


--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
 
Old 03-25-2012, 09:17 AM
Frank Murphy
 
Default Fedora disimprovements: am I alone?

On 25/03/12 10:05, Timothy Murphy wrote:

Reindl Harald wrote:



However, I just tried the program on my Fedora-16/KDE laptop,
and it seems to be less than the complete answer.
Enable, Disable and Start are greyed out on my system,
and there does not appear to be a Status tab.




Not fully finalised but try:
yum install systemd-gtk

It's a gui to the whole systemd thing.
Still a wip.
YMMV

--
Regards,
Frank
"Jack of all, fubars"
--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
 
Old 03-25-2012, 09:48 AM
Reindl Harald
 
Default Fedora disimprovements: am I alone?

Am 25.03.2012 11:05, schrieb Timothy Murphy:
> Reindl Harald wrote:
>
>> the answer to a question was "system-config-services"
>
> I must confess that I was not aware of this program.
> In general I've found system-config-* programs -
> in particular system-config-printer and system-config-network -
> are more likely to cause problems than solve them.

i was not the one who recommended it because i never use
any GUI crap since i can type commands and make symlinks

> In any case, thank you for pointing out this program
> (though you could have done it more courteously).

as said i pointed not out the program, i was only angry that
Joe Zeff does not shut up with his "Not all Fedora users run
Gnome" to prove again his absent knowledge of anything

> However, I just tried the program on my Fedora-16/KDE laptop,
> and it seems to be less than the complete answer.
> Enable, Disable and Start are greyed out on my system,
> and there does not appear to be a Status tab.

as said: i do not use the graphical crap

use "systemctl enable/disable/start/stop" and since it's
otput are the symlinks it creates and removes it should
be very easy to learn how to act with specia services like
openvpn or by "cat something.service" even to learn in 30
seconds how to write your own simple unit-file

--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
 
Old 03-25-2012, 12:11 PM
Timothy Murphy
 
Default Fedora disimprovements: am I alone?

Frank Murphy wrote:

> Not fully finalised but try:
> yum install systemd-gtk
> It's a gui to the whole systemd thing.

I yum-installed this, but couldn't see how to run it.
(It didn't appear to make any difference to system-config-services.)


--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College Dublin


--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
 
Old 03-25-2012, 12:14 PM
suvayu ali
 
Default Fedora disimprovements: am I alone?

On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 14:11, Timothy Murphy <gayleard@alice.it> wrote:
>> Not fully finalised but try:
>> yum install systemd-gtk
>> It's a gui to the whole systemd thing.
>
> I yum-installed this, but couldn't see how to run it.
> (It didn't appear to make any difference to system-config-services.)

$ systemadm

--
Suvayu

Open source is the future. It sets us free.
--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
 
Old 03-25-2012, 03:31 PM
Joe Zeff
 
Default Fedora disimprovements: am I alone?

On 03/25/2012 02:48 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:

as said i pointed not out the program, i was only angry that
Joe Zeff does not shut up with his "Not all Fedora users run
Gnome" to prove again his absent knowledge of anything


Although you are a very knowledgeable person, you're also an arrogant,
narrow-minded, intolerant horses ass who can't understand that not
everybody does things your way. Grow up and stop acting like a child.

--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
 
Old 03-27-2012, 11:12 AM
夜神 岩男
 
Default Fedora disimprovements: am I alone?

--- On Fri, 2012/3/23, Bryn M. Reeves <bmr@redhat.com> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 03/23/2012 07:38 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
> > "systemctl restart httpd.service" is a joke compared with "service
> > httpd restart" - a msart developer would have made .service as
> > default-fallback and only "httpd.socket" as example would need full
> > qualified input
>
> That would be optimisation. A very smart programmer once taught us
> that "premature optimisation is the root of all evil". Perhaps the
> author felt that other work was of higher priority at the time?

That is not optimization, that is interface design. The two are entirely different. The "premature optimization" bit is about choosing implementation clarity (expression) at the expense of execution speed over potentially confusing code that increases performance at runtime (optimization).

The difference between .service being a permitted implication VS a mandatory explication is one of interface and does not impact the implementation of the subsystem. Its the same argument as requiring that everyone actually type "self" in 'def foo(self):' in Python. I think its silly, others think it is more clear to be explicit to that degree when programming.

But pushing systemd around from the command line is not programming unless its part of a script, and then the explicit .service extension is entirely appropriate. And speaking of scripting the shell, we've had this debate before a very long time ago. It resulted in the tradition of providing GNU flag extensions in addition to the old-style terse single-dash switches for the vast majority of command line tools. In scripts it can be polite (well, used to be considered polite, if anyone would remember today...) to write 'cut --delimiter="-" --fields=2,3 foo.txt' instead of 'cut -d "-" -f 2,3', but both are perfectly acceptable and this provides a way to be explicit for posterity yet terse for practical reasons.

I'm sure more people around here than me spent their early years watching the flame wars of the late 80's and early 90's unfold over all this stuff (or in the case of JZ he was probably directly involved instead of being a youngster on the sidelines). Anyway, I think we should learn from those discussions and how the command line evolved instead of trying to reinvent things that are difficult (but that does not mean the status quo rules the day in the face of clearly better alternatives).

Have we forgotten that CLI *is* an interface and hence worth discussing? The "I" is there for a reason. And how on earth is it possible that we've forgotten what a cultural rule-of-thumb as important as "premature optimization is the root of all evil" actually means?
--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
 
Old 03-27-2012, 12:52 PM
"Bryn M. Reeves"
 
Default Fedora disimprovements: am I alone?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 03/27/2012 12:12 PM, 夜神 岩男 wrote:
> That is not optimization, that is interface design. The two are
> entirely different. The "premature optimization" bit is about
> choosing implementation clarity (expression) at the expense of
> execution speed over potentially confusing code that increases
> performance at runtime (optimization).

The set of verbs and options systemctl accepts are the interface
design. I think you are stretching things beyond the plausible to try
to claim that a minor tweak to save 8 characters in a common
invocation is UI design. It's just optimizing a common case.

> The difference between .service being a permitted implication VS a
> mandatory explication is one of interface and does not impact the
> implementation of the subsystem. Its the same argument as
> requiring that everyone actually type "self" in 'def foo(self):' in
> Python. I think its silly, others think it is more clear to be
> explicit to that degree when programming.
>
> But pushing systemd around from the command line is not
> programming unless its part of a script, and then the explicit
> .service extension is entirely appropriate. And speaking of
> scripting the shell, we've had this debate before a very long time
> ago. It resulted in the tradition of providing GNU flag extensions
> in addition to the old-style terse single-dash switches for the
> vast majority of command line tools. In scripts it can be polite
> (well, used to be considered polite, if anyone would remember
> today...) to write 'cut --delimiter="-" --fields=2,3 foo.txt'
> instead of 'cut -d "-" -f 2,3', but both are perfectly acceptable
> and this provides a way to be explicit for posterity yet terse for
> practical reasons.

No idea what point any of this is getting at. The systemd utilities
support both long and short options where it makes sense to do so.
It's almost as though someone designed it that way..

> Have we forgotten that CLI *is* an interface and hence worth
> discussing? The "I" is there for a reason. And how on earth is it
> possible that we've forgotten what a cultural rule-of-thumb as
> important as "premature optimization is the root of all evil"
> actually means?

Go ahead and discuss to your heart's content but flaming at people and
calling a UI "unusable" and implying that the authors of that
interface are "not smart" has no place in that discussion and should
not be accepted.

Regards,
Bryn.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAk9xuBkACgkQ6YSQoMYUY94PoACgocSkp1anNo BK5hJgxMAV86U3
+e0AoMIQziOpLFqOS3rfWLgPHZ+ewyzD
=IDSg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
 
Old 03-30-2012, 09:25 AM
Joel Rees
 
Default Fedora disimprovements: am I alone?

I'll just note that you are not alone in questioning the wisdom of the
current directions. (Yeah, plural. That's part of the problem.)

Not alone in your frustrations, either.

--
Joel Rees
--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 10:08 AM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org