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Old 03-22-2012, 09:01 PM
Michael Hennebry
 
Default booting from DVD image on hard drive partition

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012, Andras Simon wrote:


2012/3/22, Michael Hennebry <hennebry@web.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu>:

[...]


#The /boot/f15x directory is where I extracted the vmlinuz
#and initrd.img files from the isolinux directory on
#the iso image, and /zooty/salvage/iso-images/Fedora-15-Beta-x86_64-DVD/
#is the directory where I saved the iso image (where
#the /zooty mountpoint mounts a partition with the label ZOOTY).


Just a shot in the dark: aren't you by any chance trying to install
64-bit Fedora on a 32-bit computer?


No. I'm using Fedora-16-i386-DVD.iso and files from it.

--
Michael hennebry@web.cs.ndsu.NoDak.edu
"On Monday, I'm gonna have to tell my kindergarten class,
whom I teach not to run with scissors,
that my fiance ran me through with a broadsword." -- Lily
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:24 PM
Andras Simon
 
Default booting from DVD image on hard drive partition

2012/3/22, Michael Hennebry <hennebry@web.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu>:
> On Thu, 22 Mar 2012, Andras Simon wrote:
>
>> 2012/3/22, Michael Hennebry <hennebry@web.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu>:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> #The /boot/f15x directory is where I extracted the vmlinuz
>>> #and initrd.img files from the isolinux directory on
>>> #the iso image, and /zooty/salvage/iso-images/Fedora-15-Beta-x86_64-DVD/
>>> #is the directory where I saved the iso image (where
>>> #the /zooty mountpoint mounts a partition with the label ZOOTY).
>>
>> Just a shot in the dark: aren't you by any chance trying to install
>> 64-bit Fedora on a 32-bit computer?
>
> No. I'm using Fedora-16-i386-DVD.iso and files from it.

OK, so the directory name Fedora-15-Beta-x86_64-DVD above is accidental.
Too bad. It would've been a nice and easy solution.

Andras
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:35 PM
stan
 
Default booting from DVD image on hard drive partition

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 17:01:25 -0500 (CDT)
Michael Hennebry <hennebry@web.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu> wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Mar 2012, Andras Simon wrote:
>
> > 2012/3/22, Michael Hennebry <hennebry@web.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu>:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >> #The /boot/f15x directory is where I extracted the vmlinuz
> >> #and initrd.img files from the isolinux directory on
> >> #the iso image,
> >> and /zooty/salvage/iso-images/Fedora-15-Beta-x86_64-DVD/ #is the
> >> directory where I saved the iso image (where #the /zooty
> >> mountpoint mounts a partition with the label ZOOTY).
> >
> > Just a shot in the dark: aren't you by any chance trying to install
> > 64-bit Fedora on a 32-bit computer?
>
> No. I'm using Fedora-16-i386-DVD.iso and files from it.
>
Is it possible that the kernel isn't relocatable? i.e. it expects to
run from a specific address, and that address isn't available. I'm not
sure how to check that, but the boot directory usually has the config
files for each installed kernel, and maybe you could grep it for the
appropriate switch. Again, I don't know the name of that switch, I
just know that I've seen it while configuring a kernel.

Another idea. Maybe you can run dracut on the vmlinuz from the DVD, and
generate a custom (I think that is the -h option) initramfs for your
system. Use it instead of the one from the DVD when you boot from grub.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:04 PM
Michael Hennebry
 
Default booting from DVD image on hard drive partition

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012, stan wrote:


Is it possible that the kernel isn't relocatable? i.e. it expects to
run from a specific address, and that address isn't available. I'm not


Do you mean a RAM address?
How would a RAM address not be available?


sure how to check that, but the boot directory usually has the config
files for each installed kernel, and maybe you could grep it for the
appropriate switch. Again, I don't know the name of that switch, I
just know that I've seen it while configuring a kernel.


Since the iso didn't have them,
I suspect that the install kernel doesn't use them.

It might be difficult for me to
fight the switch with the erroneous default,
ascertain that the default is erroneous,
find the right value for the switch and
persuade the install kernel to use it.

I have noticed that all my kernels end in .PAE .
Could that be significant?


Another idea. Maybe you can run dracut on the vmlinuz from the DVD, and
generate a custom (I think that is the -h option) initramfs for your
system. Use it instead of the one from the DVD when you boot from grub.


I've no idea how I would improve the initram already there.
I don't even understand:
dracut [OPTION]... <image> <kernel-version>
<image>?
<kernel-version>?

--
Michael hennebry@web.cs.ndsu.NoDak.edu
"On Monday, I'm gonna have to tell my kindergarten class,
whom I teach not to run with scissors,
that my fiance ran me through with a broadsword." -- Lily
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:59 PM
stan
 
Default booting from DVD image on hard drive partition

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 18:04:16 -0500 (CDT)
Michael Hennebry <hennebry@web.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu> wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Mar 2012, stan wrote:
>
> > Is it possible that the kernel isn't relocatable? i.e. it expects
> > to run from a specific address, and that address isn't available.
> > I'm not
>
> Do you mean a RAM address?
> How would a RAM address not be available?

Perhaps Grub2 is using it somehow? These suggestions are longshots.
You've already eliminated the simple and obvious things, it seems.

>
> > sure how to check that, but the boot directory usually has the
> > config files for each installed kernel, and maybe you could grep it
> > for the appropriate switch. Again, I don't know the name of that
> > switch, I just know that I've seen it while configuring a kernel.
>
> Since the iso didn't have them,
> I suspect that the install kernel doesn't use them.
>
> It might be difficult for me to
> fight the switch with the erroneous default,
> ascertain that the default is erroneous,
> find the right value for the switch and
> persuade the install kernel to use it.
>
> I have noticed that all my kernels end in .PAE .
> Could that be significant?

If you are trying to install a 64 bit version, it *could* be. Is it
possible that the system in question isn't 64 bit? PAE is the
extension that means that a kernel is 32 bit, but has an extension to
allow it to address more than 2 (?) Gb of memory. It means you've been
running 32 bit systems up to now.

>
> > Another idea. Maybe you can run dracut on the vmlinuz from the
> > DVD, and generate a custom (I think that is the -h option)
> > initramfs for your system. Use it instead of the one from the DVD
> > when you boot from grub.
>
> I've no idea how I would improve the initram already there.
> I don't even understand:
> dracut [OPTION]... <image> <kernel-version>
> <image>?
initramfs
> <kernel-version>?
vmlinuz version

This is an example of the command I use to generate a custom initramfs
for my system.

/sbin/dracut -f -H -v --debug custom-2.6.42.10-1.20120315.fc15.x86_64.img 2.6.42.10-1.20120315.fc15.x86_64 > dracut_output 2>&1

You should name the custom part whatever you want to call the
initramfs, and put the version of the vmlinuz in the second part. It
doesn't need the vmlinuz on the front. If there are any errors, they
will be in the dracut_output. You could split the output so errors go
to their own file, > dracut_output 2> dracut_error, if you want. I've
never tried this with a DVD image, so it might not work.
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:23 AM
Michael Hennebry
 
Default booting from DVD image on hard drive partition

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012, stan wrote:


On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 18:04:16 -0500 (CDT)
Michael Hennebry <hennebry@web.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu> wrote:


On Thu, 22 Mar 2012, stan wrote:

> Is it possible that the kernel isn't relocatable? i.e. it expects
> to run from a specific address, and that address isn't available.
> I'm not

Do you mean a RAM address?
How would a RAM address not be available?


Perhaps Grub2 is using it somehow? These suggestions are longshots.


grub2 is not installed on my machine.
If it's packaged with the install kernel,
then I would expecct them to be a matched set.


You've already eliminated the simple and obvious things, it seems.



> sure how to check that, but the boot directory usually has the
> config files for each installed kernel, and maybe you could grep it
> for the appropriate switch. Again, I don't know the name of that
> switch, I just know that I've seen it while configuring a kernel.

Since the iso didn't have them,
I suspect that the install kernel doesn't use them.

It might be difficult for me to
fight the switch with the erroneous default,
ascertain that the default is erroneous,
find the right value for the switch and
persuade the install kernel to use it.

I have noticed that all my kernels end in .PAE .
Could that be significant?


Oops. I should have written .PAE.img


If you are trying to install a 64 bit version, it *could* be. Is it
possible that the system in question isn't 64 bit? PAE is the
extension that means that a kernel is 32 bit, but has an extension to
allow it to address more than 2 (?) Gb of memory. It means you've been
running 32 bit systems up to now.


My machine is 32 bit. Its cpu is a pentium 4.
[hennebry@localhost ~]$ uname -a
Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.35.14-106.fc14.i686.PAE #1 SMP Wed Nov 23 13:39:51 UTC 2011 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux


> Another idea. Maybe you can run dracut on the vmlinuz from the
> DVD, and generate a custom (I think that is the -h option)
> initramfs for your system. Use it instead of the one from the DVD
> when you boot from grub.

I've no idea how I would improve the initram already there.
I don't even understand:
dracut [OPTION]... <image> <kernel-version>
<image>?

initramfs


A sequence of bytes representing one partition
containing the root file system?


<kernel-version>?

vmlinuz version


The name of a kernel?


This is an example of the command I use to generate a custom initramfs
for my system.

/sbin/dracut -f -H -v --debug custom-2.6.42.10-1.20120315.fc15.x86_64.img 2.6.42.10-1.20120315.fc15.x86_64 > dracut_output 2>&1

You should name the custom part whatever you want to call the
initramfs, and put the version of the vmlinuz in the second part. It
doesn't need the vmlinuz on the front. If there are any errors, they


What does the version do?


will be in the dracut_output. You could split the output so errors go
to their own file, > dracut_output 2> dracut_error, if you want. I've
never tried this with a DVD image, so it might not work.


Are you suggesting that I make the DVD
filesystem part of the initial ramdisk image?
Wouldn't I also need whatever was in the prepackaged initial ramdisk image?
How might the new ramdisk help me?

--
Michael hennebry@web.cs.ndsu.NoDak.edu
"On Monday, I'm gonna have to tell my kindergarten class,
whom I teach not to run with scissors,
that my fiance ran me through with a broadsword." -- Lily
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Old 03-23-2012, 04:54 PM
stan
 
Default booting from DVD image on hard drive partition

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 22:23:54 -0500 (CDT)
Michael Hennebry <hennebry@web.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu> wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Mar 2012, stan wrote:
>

> > Perhaps Grub2 is using it somehow? These suggestions are longshots.
>
> grub2 is not installed on my machine.
> If it's packaged with the install kernel,
> then I would expecct them to be a matched set.

Then grub might be using it, and anaconda might not expect that from
the DVD. As I said, this seems unlikely, but possible.

> >> I have noticed that all my kernels end in .PAE .
> >> Could that be significant?
>
> Oops. I should have written .PAE.img

Kernels don't end in .img, that's the initrd / initramfs. Here is a
sample kernel name:
vmlinuz-2.6.42.12-1.20120323.fc15.x86_64
Here is the rpm initramfs file name for that kernel:
initramfs-2.6.42.12-1.20120323.fc15.x86_64.img

> My machine is 32 bit. Its cpu is a pentium 4.
> [hennebry@localhost ~]$ uname -a
> Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.35.14-106.fc14.i686.PAE #1 SMP Wed
> Nov 23 13:39:51 UTC 2011 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux

I think pentium 4 is fairly old hardware. I doubt either the kernel
developers or Fedora developers are using such hardware, and so you
could be hitting a regression that wasn't caught during
kernel development because no one is running that hardware.

>
> >> > Another idea. Maybe you can run dracut on the vmlinuz from the
> >> > DVD, and generate a custom (I think that is the -h option)
> >> > initramfs for your system. Use it instead of the one from the
> >> > DVD when you boot from grub.
> >>
> >> I've no idea how I would improve the initram already there.
> >> I don't even understand:
> >> dracut [OPTION]... <image> <kernel-version>
> >> <image>?
> > initramfs
>
> A sequence of bytes representing one partition
> containing the root file system?

From the man page, "dracut creates an initial image used by the kernel
for preloading the block device modules (such as IDE, SCSI or RAID)
which are needed to access the root filesystem." In your case, this
will be the drivers for the hard drives you have.

>
> >> <kernel-version>?
> > vmlinuz version
>
> The name of a kernel?
No, the version of a kernel. In the kernel line from /boot
vmlinuz-2.6.42.12-1.20120323.fc15.x86_64
vmlinuz is the name, and the rest is the version.
>
> > This is an example of the command I use to generate a custom
> > initramfs for my system.
> >
> > /sbin/dracut -f -H -v --debug
> > custom-2.6.42.10-1.20120315.fc15.x86_64.img
> > 2.6.42.10-1.20120315.fc15.x86_64 > dracut_output 2>&1
> >
> > You should name the custom part whatever you want to call the
> > initramfs, and put the version of the vmlinuz in the second part.
> > It doesn't need the vmlinuz on the front. If there are any errors,
> > they
>
> What does the version do?

It tells it which kernel to create the initramfs for.

>
> > will be in the dracut_output. You could split the output so errors
> > go to their own file, > dracut_output 2> dracut_error, if you
> > want. I've never tried this with a DVD image, so it might not work.
>
> Are you suggesting that I make the DVD
> filesystem part of the initial ramdisk image?
> Wouldn't I also need whatever was in the prepackaged initial ramdisk
> image? How might the new ramdisk help me?

No. I am suggesting you create a custom initramfs for the DVD kernel
for your system. Use it instead of the generic DVD initramfs. I am
suggesting this because it might allow the boot process to bypass the
problem it is having running the DVD kernel. It should still find the
ISO image because of the kernel line parameters. And you could be
right above. I don't know if it requires the DVD ISO9660 fs or not in
the initramfs. I think it should be able to get that from the kernel,
as it is probably compiled in or a module. I don't know if this will
work, as this too is a long shot, but long shots seems to be all you
have left to try.
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:19 PM
jackson byers
 
Default booting from DVD image on hard drive partition

Michael,
Your responses have me more and more confused as to exactly
what you are trying to do:

>My machine can still boot from my FC13 installation disk.
>I copied FC13's vmlinuz to a hard drive and
>tried again with the grub command line.

>I have F14 installed, but F13 is the most recent DVD I can find.

why are you booting from F13 installation disk if you have F14 installed?
why do you need to find the F14 DVD?

Does this mean:
--you do not have F13 installed?
--your F14 install is somehow broken?

What version of installed-fedora are you operating from?
What version of fedora is the iso you are extracting from?
Is either F15,F16 involved?



the hdinstall, as per Horsley, and as per fedoraproject:
is meant to operate from an already existing fedora system,
which you don't seem to have.

>Chapter 12. Installing Without Media

>12.1. Retrieving Boot Files
>12.2. Editing the GRUB Configuration
>12.3. Booting to Installation

>Linux Required
>This procedure assumes you are already using Fedora or another relatively modern >Linux distribution, and the GRUB boot loader. It also assumes you are a somewhat >experienced Linux user.

>This section discusses how to install Fedora on your system without making any >additional physical media. Instead, you can use your existing GRUB boot loader to start >the installation program

Note:" without making any additional physical media", i.e, no DVD, just the iso
Note: "use your existing GRUB boot loader"


Jack
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Old 03-23-2012, 08:30 PM
Michael Hennebry
 
Default booting from DVD image on hard drive partition

On Fri, 23 Mar 2012, stan wrote:


On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 22:23:54 -0500 (CDT)
Michael Hennebry <hennebry@web.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu> wrote:


On Thu, 22 Mar 2012, stan wrote:



>> I have noticed that all my kernels end in .PAE .
>> Could that be significant?

Oops. I should have written .PAE.img


Kernels don't end in .img, that's the initrd / initramfs. Here is a
sample kernel name:
vmlinuz-2.6.42.12-1.20120323.fc15.x86_64
Here is the rpm initramfs file name for that kernel:
initramfs-2.6.42.12-1.20120323.fc15.x86_64.img


Oops. Right the first time.
The kernels end in .PAE . The ramdisk images end in .PAE.img .


I think pentium 4 is fairly old hardware. I doubt either the kernel
developers or Fedora developers are using such hardware, and so you
could be hitting a regression that wasn't caught during
kernel development because no one is running that hardware.


Any idea how I would find out for sure?


No. I am suggesting you create a custom initramfs for the DVD kernel
for your system. Use it instead of the generic DVD initramfs. I am
suggesting this because it might allow the boot process to bypass the
problem it is having running the DVD kernel. It should still find the


That also means that I would have to generate the image somehow.
I've no idea how I would do that.

--
Michael hennebry@web.cs.ndsu.NoDak.edu
"On Monday, I'm gonna have to tell my kindergarten class,
whom I teach not to run with scissors,
that my fiance ran me through with a broadsword." -- Lily
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Old 03-23-2012, 09:11 PM
Michael Hennebry
 
Default booting from DVD image on hard drive partition

I really hate it when the assumption that I
am stupid gets in the way of communication.

On Fri, 23 Mar 2012, jackson byers wrote:


Michael,
Your responses have me more and more confused as to exactly
what you are trying to do:


Install F16.


My machine can still boot from my FC13 installation disk.
I copied FC13's vmlinuz to a hard drive and
tried again with the grub command line.



I have F14 installed, but F13 is the most recent DVD I can find.


why are you booting from F13 installation disk if you have F14 installed?
why do you need to find the F14 DVD?


On Thu, 22 Mar 2012, Michael Hennebry wrote:


On Wed, 21 Mar 2012, jackson byers wrote:


Michael,
did you follow the Andras->Tom Horsley link?


Yes. See my previous reply.
I've done some *experimenting* since.
My machine can still boot from my FC13 installation disk.


*Emphasis* added.

On Fri, 23 Mar 2012, jackson byers wrote:


Does this mean:
--you do not have F13 installed?
--your F14 install is somehow broken?


It means that I have precisely one install disk that I can boot.
'Tisn't one I want.


What version of installed-fedora are you operating from?


F14.


What version of fedora is the iso you are extracting from?


F16.


the hdinstall, as per Horsley, and as per fedoraproject:
is meant to operate from an already existing fedora system,
which you don't seem to have.


On Thu, 22 Mar 2012, Michael Hennebry wrote:

My machine is 32 bit. Its cpu is a pentium 4.
[hennebry@localhost ~]$ uname -a
Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.35.14-106.fc14.i686.PAE #1 SMP Wed Nov 23
13:39:51 UTC 2011 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux



Chapter 12. Installing Without Media



12.1. Retrieving Boot Files
12.2. Editing the GRUB Configuration
12.3. Booting to Installation



Linux Required
This procedure assumes you are already using Fedora or another relatively modern >Linux distribution, and the GRUB boot loader. It also assumes you are a somewhat >experienced Linux user.



This section discusses how to install Fedora on your system without making any >additional physical media. Instead, you can use your existing GRUB boot loader to start >the installation program


Note:" without making any additional physical media", i.e, no DVD, just the iso
Note: "use your existing GRUB boot loader"


It assumes that I have grub2. I don't.
That is why I didn't use it.
I did try the prescribed minimal CD.
From another thread:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2012, Michael Hennebry wrote:


I made a minimal CD to start an install from hard drive.
It doesn't work.

The boot menu asks me to install or troubleshoot.
Hitting enter for install results in lots of text
scrolling off the page followed by catatonia.
The first time, the last line was incomplete.
The next time I used
linux ks=http://www.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu/~hennebry/anaconda-ks.cfg
The last line before catatonia included something like "end of dump".

The CD is not bad.
It's an exact copy of the iso from which it was made.
I read it back and did a diff to make sure.
The iso's sha256sum is
a4a7cc83163a2cecf1420c64d48123d0887e165aa17a72b892 0f8d70bf003a65 .

How do I debug this?


As you can see from the date, this is getting a bit frustrating.

--
Michael hennebry@web.cs.ndsu.NoDak.edu
"On Monday, I'm gonna have to tell my kindergarten class,
whom I teach not to run with scissors,
that my fiance ran me through with a broadsword." -- Lily
--
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