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Old 04-04-2008, 01:29 PM
Timothy Murphy
 
Default Sound on Fedora-8: what a mess!

I was listening to a CD (Yehudi Menuhin) on one F-8 laptop,
where it worked fine (using amarok),
and moved to another, apparently identical, F-8 laptop,
and got no sound at all.
I tried "killall -9 pulseaudio" and it worked perfectly.

There seem to be a vast number of sound applications
competing for use.
What exactly is the relation between pulseaudio and amarok?
I see on my KDE system I also have KDE=>Multimedia=>CD Player
but I have no idea what application this refers to.
Clicking on it does not produce any sound, in any case.

KDE=>System=>Soundcard Detection seems to me completely useless.
It either tells me that sound is working, which I already know,
or else that it is not working.
I cannot see what function this program could possibly serve,
unless one has more than one soundcard,
which surely is extremely rare.

RealPlayer, mplayer, helix, amarok, KsCD, KMix -
is there any end to this ...


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Old 04-04-2008, 02:18 PM
"Patrick O'Callaghan"
 
Default Sound on Fedora-8: what a mess!

I attained Sound Heaven by removing pulseaudio and all its works.

poc

On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 14:29 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> I was listening to a CD (Yehudi Menuhin) on one F-8 laptop,
> where it worked fine (using amarok),
> and moved to another, apparently identical, F-8 laptop,
> and got no sound at all.
> I tried "killall -9 pulseaudio" and it worked perfectly.
>
> There seem to be a vast number of sound applications
> competing for use.
> What exactly is the relation between pulseaudio and amarok?
> I see on my KDE system I also have KDE=>Multimedia=>CD Player
> but I have no idea what application this refers to.
> Clicking on it does not produce any sound, in any case.
>
> KDE=>System=>Soundcard Detection seems to me completely useless.
> It either tells me that sound is working, which I already know,
> or else that it is not working.
> I cannot see what function this program could possibly serve,
> unless one has more than one soundcard,
> which surely is extremely rare.
>
> RealPlayer, mplayer, helix, amarok, KsCD, KMix -
> is there any end to this ...
>
>

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Old 04-04-2008, 06:14 PM
Brian Mury
 
Default Sound on Fedora-8: what a mess!

On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 14:29 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> There seem to be a vast number of sound applications
> competing for use.

Yes, and that is not a bad thing. There are a lot of car companies
selling different cars too. Choice is good. Use what you like, don't use
what you don't like.

> What exactly is the relation between pulseaudio and amarok?

In a nutshell: Amarok is an application for playing music. PulseAudio is
a layer that sits between the application and the hardware.

> I see on my KDE system I also have KDE=>Multimedia=>CD Player
> but I have no idea what application this refers to.
> Clicking on it does not produce any sound, in any case.

I use Gnome, not KDE, but I would expect it is an application to play
audio CDs using the computer's CD drive. I have a similar menu item in
Gnome that runs gnome-cd, the Gnome CD player application

> KDE=>System=>Soundcard Detection seems to me completely useless.
> It either tells me that sound is working, which I already know,
> or else that it is not working.
> I cannot see what function this program could possibly serve,

It detects and configures your sound devices, and provides you some
basic control over them. If your soundcard is working, you don't need to
run it.

> unless one has more than one soundcard,
> which surely is extremely rare.

It is more common than you think. I have three sound cards in this
computer.

> RealPlayer, mplayer, helix, amarok, KsCD, KMix -
> is there any end to this ...

In the context of your subject line, this is not a Fedora issue, and it
is not a mess. Go buy a new stereo system and see how many options there
are. Why can't we just have one stereo system? Because people have
different needs and different preferences.


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Old 04-04-2008, 06:32 PM
Rodolfo Alcazar Portillo
 
Default Sound on Fedora-8: what a mess!

Am Freitag, den 04.04.2008, 11:14 -0700 schrieb Brian Mury:
> On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 14:29 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> > What exactly is the relation between pulseaudio and amarok?
> In a nutshell: Amarok is an application for playing music. PulseAudio is
> a layer that sits between the application and the hardware.

Right, and thats not all: I dont know amarok, I use xmms. Xmms has a
plugin which allows him to use the pulseaudio layer. Do you know whether
amarok needs a plugin, or that capability is native?

> > I see on my KDE system I also have KDE=>Multimedia=>CD Player
> > but I have no idea what application this refers to.
> > Clicking on it does not produce any sound, in any case.

Thats another problem. I suggest you to fix pulseaudio first.

> > unless one has more than one soundcard,
> > which surely is extremely rare.
> It is more common than you think. I have three sound cards in this
> computer.

Two soundcards at home. No problems.

> > RealPlayer, mplayer, helix, amarok, KsCD, KMix -
> > is there any end to this ...

Again, fix pulseaudio first. Try (not as root)

pulseaudio -k
pulseaudio -D

Greets!
----------------------------------------------
Rodolfo Alcazar - rodolfo.alcazar@padep.org.bo
otbits.blogspot.com / counter.li.org: #367962
----------------------------------------------
"Die Beichte, nicht der Priester, erteilt uns die Absolution."
- Oscar Wilde


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Old 04-04-2008, 07:12 PM
"Patrick O'Callaghan"
 
Default Sound on Fedora-8: what a mess!

On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 11:14 -0700, Brian Mury wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 14:29 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> > There seem to be a vast number of sound applications
> > competing for use.
>
> Yes, and that is not a bad thing. There are a lot of car companies
> selling different cars too. Choice is good. Use what you like, don't use
> what you don't like.

Of course, however the real mess is between esd, OSS, ALSA, ArTS,
Pulseaudio, Jack, ...

The real question is how does someone who doesn't care a rat's ass how
the sound system operates but just wants to play music and videos, use
Skype or Ekiga, and get his system alerts, know how to configure these
or choose between them, especially as a typical system has several of
them and they don't all play nicely together?

poc

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Old 04-04-2008, 07:21 PM
"Paul Johnson"
 
Default Sound on Fedora-8: what a mess!

On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 2:12 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan
<pocallaghan@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 11:14 -0700, Brian Mury wrote:
> > On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 14:29 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> > > There seem to be a vast number of sound applications
> > > competing for use.
> >
> > Yes, and that is not a bad thing. There are a lot of car companies
> > selling different cars too. Choice is good. Use what you like, don't use
> > what you don't like.
>
> Of course, however the real mess is between esd, OSS, ALSA, ArTS,
> Pulseaudio, Jack, ...
>
> The real question is how does someone who doesn't care a rat's ass how
> the sound system operates but just wants to play music and videos, use
> Skype or Ekiga, and get his system alerts, know how to configure these
> or choose between them, especially as a typical system has several of
> them and they don't all play nicely together?
>

It is clearly a time of growing pains for sound support.

I think this is the right question, and the OP was correct to call it
a mess when sound does not work on a regular basis. Many of us don't
care HOW sound works, as long as it does. We are glad there are
competing sound programs, but we don't want them all installed at once
in a default Fedora pc, unless somebody makes them work together.

I've run into the pulseaudio paradox OP described, and I also have
trouble when Firefox tries to launch flash videos and the browser
completely crashes. Traced back to competition between sound layers.

--
Paul E. Johnson
Professor, Political Science
1541 Lilac Lane, Room 504
University of Kansas

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Old 04-04-2008, 07:29 PM
Rex Dieter
 
Default Sound on Fedora-8: what a mess!

Timothy Murphy wrote:

>
> I was listening to a CD (Yehudi Menuhin) on one F-8 laptop,
> where it worked fine (using amarok),
> and moved to another, apparently identical, F-8 laptop,
> and got no sound at all.
> I tried "killall -9 pulseaudio" and it worked perfectly.

If you don't want pulseaudio support (in kde anyway), simply
rpm -e kde-settings-pulseaudio alsa-plugins-pulseaudio

logout/login

-- Rex

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Old 04-04-2008, 10:31 PM
Timothy Murphy
 
Default Sound on Fedora-8: what a mess!

Brian Mury wrote:

>> There seem to be a vast number of sound applications
>> competing for use.
>
> Yes, and that is not a bad thing. There are a lot of car companies
> selling different cars too. Choice is good. Use what you like, don't use
> what you don't like.

By "competing for use" I mean "competing for use at the same time".
I don't mind different file types linking to different programs,
as long as the link is reasonably transparent.
But I don't want several programs being linked to the same file-type,
as seems the case here, unless I am explicitly asked
which I want to use.

>> What exactly is the relation between pulseaudio and amarok?
>
> In a nutshell: Amarok is an application for playing music. PulseAudio is
> a layer that sits between the application and the hardware.

I'm not sure what the second sentence means.
Why is pulseaudio sitting there?
And what exactly is its function in this case,
since amarok seems to work without it, and doesn't work with it?



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Old 04-04-2008, 10:46 PM
Konstantin Svist
 
Default Sound on Fedora-8: what a mess!

Rodolfo Alcazar Portillo wrote:

Am Freitag, den 04.04.2008, 11:14 -0700 schrieb Brian Mury:


It is more common than you think. I have three sound cards in this
computer.



Two soundcards at home. No problems.



What do you guys use extra sound cards for?
Just curious..


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Old 04-04-2008, 10:54 PM
Brian Mury
 
Default Sound on Fedora-8: what a mess!

On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 23:31 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> By "competing for use" I mean "competing for use at the same time".
> I don't mind different file types linking to different programs,
> as long as the link is reasonably transparent.
> But I don't want several programs being linked to the same file-type,
> as seems the case here, unless I am explicitly asked
> which I want to use.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I have several audio players, one is
the default for each file type. Double clicking on a file opens the
default player. If I want to use a different player I right click and
choose another player from the pop-up menu. This seems like a pretty
good system to me.

> I'm not sure what the second sentence means.
> Why is pulseaudio sitting there?
> And what exactly is its function in this case,

>From the PulseAudio web page:

A sound server can serve many functions:

* Software mixing of multiple audio streams, bypassing any
restrictions the hardware has.
* Network transparency, allowing an application to play back or
record audio on a different machine than the one it is running
on.
* Sound API abstraction, alleviating the need for multiple
backends in applications to handle the wide diversity of sound
systems out there.
* Generic hardware abstraction, giving the possibility of doing
things like individual volumes per application.


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