FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Redhat > Fedora User

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 04-03-2008, 01:02 PM
Michael Hennebry
 
Default Linux is KING - Couldn't be hacked - Mac, Vista went down in flames

On Wed, 2 Apr 2008, Les wrote:

> We also had mechanical tape readers, the small hole in the center of
> the tape was the drive. Small fingers would sense the holes punched in
> the tape. 5 level, caps+numbers+a limited number of punctuation marks.
>
> I also helped clean and adjust the teleltypes. Do any of you know what
> the "stunt box" is?

The box of holes?

--
Michael hennebry@web.cs.ndsu.NoDak.edu
"Those parts of the system that you can hit with a hammer (not advised)
are called Hardware; those program instructions that you can only
curse at are called Software."

--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@redhat.com
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
 
Old 04-04-2008, 02:12 AM
Rick Stevens
 
Default Linux is KING - Couldn't be hacked - Mac, Vista went down in flames

Ric Moore wrote:

On Thu, 2008-04-03 at 06:59 +1030, Tim wrote:

On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 09:31 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
Microsoft's entry into the personal computer market was by supplying
a version of BASIC that for several operating systems.

And wasn't it awful... I know BASIC's sneered upon, as there are plenty
of better things, but BASIC was a simple starting position for a lot of
people. It was also the only system available for a lot of home
personal computing, for a long time. Though, it typically was a very
feature limited interpreter. We had it on a Data General mainframe,
amongst other languages, and that went in the opposite direction - very
featured, and gave you very verbose and lengthy error reports about your
syntax errors.

Many years ago I can remember tinkering around with Microsoft's BASIC on
the Amiga, since it was the only programming language I had to play with
on it, at the time. And actually managing to make a small relational
database with it, even though it hardly has the features that you need
for something like that. It wasn't anything really complex though, just
interrelated databases of services, clients, quotes, and the ability to
turn a quote into an invoice.


cp/m had all kinda sort and list commands. I'm just not sure which would
have been better, to be under the evil domination of Digital or
Microsoft. <grins> cp/m ][ was pretty nice, though. It did pretty much
whatever I wanted it to do. Ric


Hey, be nice! First off, remember Gary Kildall's company was Digital
Research, Inc.--NOT Digital Equipment Corp. (at the time chaired by
Ken Olson).

I worked for DRI on CP/M and MP/M. There were some nomenclature and UI
similarities between DEC's RT-11 or RSTS and CP/M, but they were NOT the
same company--not by a long shot. They were even on different coasts!

IBM went with Microsoft because they arrived for a meeting with Gary,
but he was out flying his airplane and missed it. IBM got ticked off
and called Microsoft. We've never been sure if IBM was a day early
(as Gary always claimed) or Gary screwed up his calendar. Either one is
as likely as the other (IBM can be petulant and Gary could be very
scatterbrained at times).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer rps2@nerd.com -
- Hosting Consulting, Inc. -
- -
- Do you know how to save five drowning lawyers? No? GOOD! -
----------------------------------------------------------------------

--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@redhat.com
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
 
Old 04-08-2008, 12:20 AM
max
 
Default Linux is KING - Couldn't be hacked - Mac, Vista went down in flames

Da Rock wrote:

On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 09:11 -0400, max bianco wrote:

On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:29 AM, Da Rock <rock_on_the_web@comcen.com.au> wrote:


On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 13:23 +0930, Tim wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 09:36 +1000, Da Rock wrote:
> > As for computers; what really gets on my goat is that they're not put to
> > full use. We originally put men on the moon with them, we have games
> > that are semi intelligent that we compete against, and YET we still use
> > them simply as a typewriter or communication device. Yes, they can be
> > used as this, but they have so much grunt these days they could be doing
> > the mundane of our tasks in life. Stupid M$ has made our machines dumb,
> > and our computers still run as slow as they did under 3.1 with all the
> > shit they put in the software.
> >
> > Thats why SETI and other boinc projects can use our collective wasted
> > computing power as a supercomputer more powerful than one put to
> > dedicated use. Really seems silly doesn't it? We dreamed of geek houses
> > in the seventies and eighties, and still we haven't got there- and not
> > due to the lack of technology...
>
> I tend to sway the other direction. We're all too quick at throwing
> computing into areas where it doesn't really belong. e.g. Schools seem
> to think that putting a computer somewhere is the answer, never mind
> that personal teaching would be more appropriate. School's as much an
> exercise in learning social skills and doing what you're supposed to be
> doing, as it is in learning how to do math, etc. And what do we do with
> the students sorely lacking in social skills? Put them on a computer,
> often flying solo...
>
> Then there's the home situation. In days gone past, the most difficult
> technical thing anyone had to do at home was get the television to show
> a decent picture. Now we do have computers in media centres that make
> you jump through hoops to try and connect two devices together in a way
> that works. Digital video that doesn't work across different things
> because of imcompatible techniques (I hesitate to refer to them as
> "standards"). Recorders that forever blink 12:00 at you. Digital
> receivers that stutter and repeat where analogue receivers give near
> perfect results. Computerised washing machines that aren't any better
> than the old ones, even worse if you want to do something simple like
> repeat one cycle because something went wrong. And that Pile of Crap
> running Windows that spews viruses and spam around the world.
>
> Our leisure time has gone from enjoying the company of friends, reading
> a book, listening to music, watching a film, to spending lots of time
> and money maintaining a plethora of technology at home, or just putting
> up with it not working right.

So you'd throw the baby out with the bathwater here?

The concept is right, and would yield a plethora of opportunities- but
it MUST BE DONE RIGHT. You're damned right about the M$ shitbox spewing
out crap. This thread and punch cards thread, plus the majority of the
audience on this list (it seems) come from an era where the job was done
right and it Just Works (TM) (I hope I haven't offended the coiner). M$
comes along and cheapifies it all, but it does the job in opening the
public to computing. What should have happened was that the training
wheels should have come off- but instead users have hung on to them and
think they're clever getting them to do things like video conferencing.
They should have moved on to something that truely is customizable such
any *nix variation. I'd even allow them Ubuntu if it got them off the
damn drug produced by M$.

And there is addiction through and through.

Computers could be put to use as they were intended to- to make life
easier- but the majority of corporations are unwilling to throw money at
something to do the whole job when they could get away with doing a half
assed job instead. Plus they make money because the unit craps out and
the consumer has to buy another one.

I had an old man come into my shop one day with the ccd piece of a
scanner (at which point I'm almost physically slapping my head!) and
requesting a spare part for it. I then sympathetically explained that
he'd need a special jig to replace it anyway so there's no spare part,
and of course that got him started on corporate wastefulness and so on
for over half an hour in a lecture to me. I agreed totally, but I
couldn't help him then. This is the half assed job we're talking about-
maybe not with scanners, but the majority of products (especially the
ones you mentioned- washers and dryers, HiFi equipment, etc).

The fact of the matter is: any job worth doing is worth doing properly.
Make it work. For those of you who think the majority of work has been
done and now its only tweaking: its not over. There's miles to be done,
to get that slogan back into gear, make it Just Work (TM).

As for the social aspect, consider this: we're arguing this point across
several continents! If it weren't for computers, we couldn't be doing
this. There are dangers, but this is as much of a social skill as
learning not to talk to strangers. So everyone can learn something. More
social activities can occur than ever before across a wide area. Forget
just the local dance hall social scene- try a GLOBAL dance hall.

And the choice is there to do what you want- or you can put it all aside
and get outdoors or whatever.

In this point Tim, I agree with your view of the crap, but I'd ask that
you consider the wider ramifications of what life would be like IF
computers were put to good use, and done so properly. In former
civilizations we had slaves (I'm not saying this is a good thing either-
I abhor the way they were treated) to make life easier, now we need to
use technology to achieve the same lifestyle- FOR ALL PEOPLE, not an
elite few. We can achieve something never achievable before...



--

It comes down to education. People put up with crap because they don't
know any better. The majority of the school system uses M$ Office and
pays for the privilege. They could easily use Open Office which is
free and the equal of M$ Office in everyway that counts. They could
save a ton of money, donate to help improve the project, and still
come out ahead. All the money saved could be invested where it
matters, like a working terminal on every student's desk.


Max


I'm afraid not, been down that track numerous times with NGO's and other
organisations. The excuse is "we're not going to retrain", "we want to
stick with something we're familiar with", "our head office only uses M$
office and we need to be compatible with them", "our suppliers can only
read M$ office documents". Tell them it is compatible as well and they
start back peddling even faster.

Doesn't that sound like addiction to you? "I don't have a problem, I can
give up at any time"?

What you considered would be wonderful, but it never grabs them. Been
there, tried that...

Such a shame.

It is a shame but it won't change from the top down. Good change starts
from the bottom up. Education is the key as always. Most people are
surprised to find out Open Office is free and they certainly can't
believe its just as functional but it is. Things are changing slowly but
surely, there is alot of inertia in the market to overcome, besides
which people are often not farsighted enough to see the long term
consequences of their choices but that too is a matter of education. I
bet if a CD full of free software was stuffed in every mailbox like
those annoying AOL cd's you'd find it would take hold rather quickly.


Max

--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@redhat.com
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
 
Old 04-08-2008, 03:05 AM
max
 
Default Linux is KING - Couldn't be hacked - Mac, Vista went down in flames

Da Rock wrote:

On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 20:20 -0400, max wrote:

Da Rock wrote:

On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 09:11 -0400, max bianco wrote:

On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:29 AM, Da Rock <rock_on_the_web@comcen.com.au> wrote:

On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 13:23 +0930, Tim wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 09:36 +1000, Da Rock wrote:
> > As for computers; what really gets on my goat is that they're not put to
> > full use. We originally put men on the moon with them, we have games
> > that are semi intelligent that we compete against, and YET we still use
> > them simply as a typewriter or communication device. Yes, they can be
> > used as this, but they have so much grunt these days they could be doing
> > the mundane of our tasks in life. Stupid M$ has made our machines dumb,
> > and our computers still run as slow as they did under 3.1 with all the
> > shit they put in the software.
> >
> > Thats why SETI and other boinc projects can use our collective wasted
> > computing power as a supercomputer more powerful than one put to
> > dedicated use. Really seems silly doesn't it? We dreamed of geek houses
> > in the seventies and eighties, and still we haven't got there- and not
> > due to the lack of technology...
>
> I tend to sway the other direction. We're all too quick at throwing
> computing into areas where it doesn't really belong. e.g. Schools seem
> to think that putting a computer somewhere is the answer, never mind
> that personal teaching would be more appropriate. School's as much an
> exercise in learning social skills and doing what you're supposed to be
> doing, as it is in learning how to do math, etc. And what do we do with
> the students sorely lacking in social skills? Put them on a computer,
> often flying solo...
>
> Then there's the home situation. In days gone past, the most difficult
> technical thing anyone had to do at home was get the television to show
> a decent picture. Now we do have computers in media centres that make
> you jump through hoops to try and connect two devices together in a way
> that works. Digital video that doesn't work across different things
> because of imcompatible techniques (I hesitate to refer to them as
> "standards"). Recorders that forever blink 12:00 at you. Digital
> receivers that stutter and repeat where analogue receivers give near
> perfect results. Computerised washing machines that aren't any better
> than the old ones, even worse if you want to do something simple like
> repeat one cycle because something went wrong. And that Pile of Crap
> running Windows that spews viruses and spam around the world.
>
> Our leisure time has gone from enjoying the company of friends, reading
> a book, listening to music, watching a film, to spending lots of time
> and money maintaining a plethora of technology at home, or just putting
> up with it not working right.

So you'd throw the baby out with the bathwater here?

The concept is right, and would yield a plethora of opportunities- but
it MUST BE DONE RIGHT. You're damned right about the M$ shitbox spewing
out crap. This thread and punch cards thread, plus the majority of the
audience on this list (it seems) come from an era where the job was done
right and it Just Works (TM) (I hope I haven't offended the coiner). M$
comes along and cheapifies it all, but it does the job in opening the
public to computing. What should have happened was that the training
wheels should have come off- but instead users have hung on to them and
think they're clever getting them to do things like video conferencing.
They should have moved on to something that truely is customizable such
any *nix variation. I'd even allow them Ubuntu if it got them off the
damn drug produced by M$.

And there is addiction through and through.

Computers could be put to use as they were intended to- to make life
easier- but the majority of corporations are unwilling to throw money at
something to do the whole job when they could get away with doing a half
assed job instead. Plus they make money because the unit craps out and
the consumer has to buy another one.

I had an old man come into my shop one day with the ccd piece of a
scanner (at which point I'm almost physically slapping my head!) and
requesting a spare part for it. I then sympathetically explained that
he'd need a special jig to replace it anyway so there's no spare part,
and of course that got him started on corporate wastefulness and so on
for over half an hour in a lecture to me. I agreed totally, but I
couldn't help him then. This is the half assed job we're talking about-
maybe not with scanners, but the majority of products (especially the
ones you mentioned- washers and dryers, HiFi equipment, etc).

The fact of the matter is: any job worth doing is worth doing properly.
Make it work. For those of you who think the majority of work has been
done and now its only tweaking: its not over. There's miles to be done,
to get that slogan back into gear, make it Just Work (TM).

As for the social aspect, consider this: we're arguing this point across
several continents! If it weren't for computers, we couldn't be doing
this. There are dangers, but this is as much of a social skill as
learning not to talk to strangers. So everyone can learn something. More
social activities can occur than ever before across a wide area. Forget
just the local dance hall social scene- try a GLOBAL dance hall.

And the choice is there to do what you want- or you can put it all aside
and get outdoors or whatever.

In this point Tim, I agree with your view of the crap, but I'd ask that
you consider the wider ramifications of what life would be like IF
computers were put to good use, and done so properly. In former
civilizations we had slaves (I'm not saying this is a good thing either-
I abhor the way they were treated) to make life easier, now we need to
use technology to achieve the same lifestyle- FOR ALL PEOPLE, not an
elite few. We can achieve something never achievable before...



--

It comes down to education. People put up with crap because they don't
know any better. The majority of the school system uses M$ Office and
pays for the privilege. They could easily use Open Office which is
free and the equal of M$ Office in everyway that counts. They could
save a ton of money, donate to help improve the project, and still
come out ahead. All the money saved could be invested where it
matters, like a working terminal on every student's desk.


Max

I'm afraid not, been down that track numerous times with NGO's and other
organisations. The excuse is "we're not going to retrain", "we want to
stick with something we're familiar with", "our head office only uses M$
office and we need to be compatible with them", "our suppliers can only
read M$ office documents". Tell them it is compatible as well and they
start back peddling even faster.

Doesn't that sound like addiction to you? "I don't have a problem, I can
give up at any time"?

What you considered would be wonderful, but it never grabs them. Been
there, tried that...

Such a shame.

It is a shame but it won't change from the top down. Good change starts
from the bottom up. Education is the key as always. Most people are
surprised to find out Open Office is free and they certainly can't
believe its just as functional but it is. Things are changing slowly but
surely, there is alot of inertia in the market to overcome, besides
which people are often not farsighted enough to see the long term
consequences of their choices but that too is a matter of education. I
bet if a CD full of free software was stuffed in every mailbox like
those annoying AOL cd's you'd find it would take hold rather quickly.


Max



Tried that. When a habit becomes impossible to break despite all reason
it becomes addiction. Thats whats happened - despite education, and TCO
analysis, business, schools and home users refuse to give up M$. I have
just seen an organisation here working with a government welfare agency
offering computers stacked with M$ shit to people with practically no
money. Why not use free stuff here? Because they won't change their
mind- everybody uses it, its what evryone's used to, what they'll use in
the workplace, etc. Never mind that the basic principles of use don't
change across platform and its easy to learn from *nix to M$.



If you were running the organization would you stack the computers with
microshit? This is the people at the top, they go with what everyone
else does because your proabably not going to get fired for buying m$
unless you work for me that is



This government refuses to use free software- and have actually rolled
over to M$ from *nix- and also buys systems from overseas vendors, even
though there are local offerings. Business is the same.

Actually certain parts of gov't , are using open-source quite a bit.
There have been a few articles about this, i'll see if I can dig them up.




If this is not happening somewhere else then let me know and I'll come
and join you- I'm tired of banging my head against a brick wall! Mind
you I'll never give up, but I will show them how its done.


Its everywhere ,unfortunately, but I can see the cracks spreading so its
just a matter of time. I don't like banging my head against a brick wall
either but the brick's gonna give before I do!!


Max

--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@redhat.com
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 02:26 AM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org