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Old 02-15-2012, 01:42 AM
Sam Varshavchik
 
Default /boot on RAID with fedora16

Alex writes:


Hi,

I understand /boot on RAID1 on fedora16 isn't supported.


That's news to me.

/me checks.

Yup, all three of my F16 servers have /boot on RAID1.


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Old 02-15-2012, 01:52 AM
Chris Adams
 
Default /boot on RAID with fedora16

Once upon a time, Sam Varshavchik <mrsam@courier-mta.com> said:
> Alex writes:
> >I understand /boot on RAID1 on fedora16 isn't supported.
>
> That's news to me.

It is apparently the "official" stance; see the F16 common bugs page.

> Yup, all three of my F16 servers have /boot on RAID1.

I went through a PITA today getting F16 installed with /boot on a
pre-existing RAID1 partitions.

I also discovered that the new-and-improved(not!) GRUB2 won't install to
partitions. I use to set up multiple installs by:

- create a small partition, install GRUB on it, and having its config do
nothing but chain-load other partitions (this GRUB gets installed in
MBR)
- set up each install with a separate /boot on an extended partition and
install its GRUB to the partition rather than the MBR

This way I was guaranteed that no install's GRUB would be messed up by
another. The top-level GRUB was a menu of OS installs (e.g. Fedora 15,
Fedora Rawhide, Windoze).

I couldn't get GRUB2 for F16 installed to my F16 /boot partition; it
would only install to the MBR. I guess that's progress.
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Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
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Old 02-15-2012, 02:01 AM
Alex
 
Default /boot on RAID with fedora16

Hi,

>> >I understand /boot on RAID1 on fedora16 isn't supported.
>>
>> That's news to me.
>
> It is apparently the "official" stance; see the F16 common bugs page.

Yes, I also have an fc16 install with RAID1 on boot, but they mostly
don't work properly. The newer servers (ones that support the GPT disk
label format?) seem to work, but the older ones I have (using MS-DOS
format) don't.

I really can't believe the default install with two disks is LVM with
striped disks and no redundancy. It's such a process just to create a
RAID system.

>> Yup, all three of my F16 servers have /boot on RAID1.
>
> I went through a PITA today getting F16 installed with /boot on a
> pre-existing RAID1 partitions.

So you mean an upgrade? Or did you format the partitions? And if so,
why not just reinstall?

> I also discovered that the new-and-improved(not!) GRUB2 won't install to
> partitions. *I use to set up multiple installs by:
>
> - create a small partition, install GRUB on it, and having its config do
> *nothing but chain-load other partitions (this GRUB gets installed in
> *MBR)
> - set up each install with a separate /boot on an extended partition and
> *install its GRUB to the partition rather than the MBR

Did you do this all with the installer? Or manually on the
command-line from a shell within the installer?

> I couldn't get GRUB2 for F16 installed to my F16 /boot partition; it
> would only install to the MBR. *I guess that's progress.

So then if I install to MBR, do I have to use a rescue disc to recover
a system with a failed /dev/sda?

Thanks again,
Alex
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:51 AM
Reindl Harald
 
Default /boot on RAID with fedora16

Am 15.02.2012 03:52, schrieb Chris Adams:
> Once upon a time, Sam Varshavchik <mrsam@courier-mta.com> said:
>> Alex writes:
>>> I understand /boot on RAID1 on fedora16 isn't supported.
>>
>> That's news to me.
>
> It is apparently the "official" stance; see the F16 common bugs page.

and why in the world was a release made with such a "common bugs page"
instead fix such MAJOR BUGS?

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Old 02-15-2012, 12:29 PM
Sam Varshavchik
 
Default /boot on RAID with fedora16

Reindl Harald writes:




Am 15.02.2012 03:52, schrieb Chris Adams:
> Once upon a time, Sam Varshavchik <mrsam@courier-mta.com> said:
>> Alex writes:
>>> I understand /boot on RAID1 on fedora16 isn't supported.
>>
>> That's news to me.
>
> It is apparently the "official" stance; see the F16 common bugs page.

and why in the world was a release made with such a "common bugs page"
instead fix such MAJOR BUGS?


Short-term thinking, and a lack of long-term planning, that's why. Large
enterprise installs of RHEL mostly employ servers with hardware RAID, mostly
via vendor-provided binary blobs. Large enterprise installs of RHEL are done
by wiping the server and imaging it afresh. Old-school IT, with roots in the
UNIX world, are not familiar with the concept of an actual upgrade. They
always did that, with UNIX, by wiping the server and loading the new
release, afresh, so that's what they do with Linux too. The fact that a good
portion of existing seats whose partitions start at sector 63 will find
themselves bricked, with this upgrade, is of very little concern, since, as
I said, most upgrades are done as fresh installs.


As such, mdraid, and the upgrade path, is of little value to RHEL, and I
think it's just not deemed important enough.


The short-term thinking here is that what's happening now is that this is
pissing off the people who, maybe a decade from now, maybe more, maybe less,
will find themselves in positions to make technology decisions. And if
Fedora's mindshare in the next generation of technology decision-makers
drops, I believe that there's going to be a fall-out from that. They won't
be looking at RHEL, but rather at whatever they abandoned Fedora for, and
that they're comfortable with.


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Old 02-15-2012, 01:43 PM
Chris Adams
 
Default /boot on RAID with fedora16

Once upon a time, Alex <mysqlstudent@gmail.com> said:
> I really can't believe the default install with two disks is LVM with
> striped disks and no redundancy. It's such a process just to create a
> RAID system.

It would be nice if anaconda recognized a pair of same-sized disks and
had an easy "click here for redundancy" button, rather than making users
go through all the steps manually, but that is not necessarily easy to
do (if I knew python half as well as I know perl, I might give it a
try).

> >> Yup, all three of my F16 servers have /boot on RAID1.
> >
> > I went through a PITA today getting F16 installed with /boot on a
> > pre-existing RAID1 partitions.
>
> So you mean an upgrade? Or did you format the partitions? And if so,
> why not just reinstall?

It was a clean install to a new LV for / and a previously-empty
partition (extended) for /boot. There was another LV/partition combo
for my previous Fedora system (F14). I have a pair of 500G disks
(RAID1), and I never use that much space (most of my files are on my NFS
server), so I just carve it up for multiple OS installs (I also
sometimes will have a Rawhide install for testing).

> > I also discovered that the new-and-improved(not!) GRUB2 won't install to
> > partitions. *I use to set up multiple installs by:
> >
> > - create a small partition, install GRUB on it, and having its config do
> > *nothing but chain-load other partitions (this GRUB gets installed in
> > *MBR)
> > - set up each install with a separate /boot on an extended partition and
> > *install its GRUB to the partition rather than the MBR
>
> Did you do this all with the installer? Or manually on the
> command-line from a shell within the installer?

I set up the top-level GRUB manually. The installer lets you choose to
install the boot loader on the /boot partition instead of the MBR,
although it apparently no longer works (at least with RAID).

> > I couldn't get GRUB2 for F16 installed to my F16 /boot partition; it
> > would only install to the MBR. *I guess that's progress.
>
> So then if I install to MBR, do I have to use a rescue disc to recover
> a system with a failed /dev/sda?

You need to install to both MBRs of RAID1 drives manually (anaconda
doesn't handle that).

It looks like switching back to motherboard "fake RAID" is going to be
the more reliable solution to configure (but not to operate; no update
bitmaps, no periodic verification, etc.).
--
Chris Adams <cmadams@hiwaay.net>
Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
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Old 02-15-2012, 02:30 PM
Bruno Wolff III
 
Default /boot on RAID with fedora16

On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 08:43:32 -0600,
Chris Adams <cmadams@hiwaay.net> wrote:
> Once upon a time, Alex <mysqlstudent@gmail.com> said:
> > I really can't believe the default install with two disks is LVM with
> > striped disks and no redundancy. It's such a process just to create a
> > RAID system.
>
> It would be nice if anaconda recognized a pair of same-sized disks and
> had an easy "click here for redundancy" button, rather than making users
> go through all the steps manually, but that is not necessarily easy to
> do (if I knew python half as well as I know perl, I might give it a
> try).

There is an ongoing project to redo the user interface for Anaconda that
I believe is targetting F18. You might want to contribute to that project
or at least provide the suggestion to them.

Some info on this is at:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Work_List
http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2011/12/14/whats-your-partitioning-persona-and-the-partitioning-ui-thus-far/
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