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Old 02-08-2012, 04:05 AM
linux guy
 
Default preupgrade grub2 failed: now can't boot

I got around all this mess by upgrading from the full install DVD. I
found the problem to exist only when updating from the live CDs or pre
upgrading. If I did my upgrade from the full install DVD, everything
worked out OK.

If you need more information, I could go back and look at my notes.
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Old 02-08-2012, 04:19 PM
don fisher
 
Default preupgrade grub2 failed: now can't boot

On 02/07/12 22:05, linux guy wrote:

I got around all this mess by upgrading from the full install DVD. I
found the problem to exist only when updating from the live CDs or pre
upgrading. If I did my upgrade from the full install DVD, everything
worked out OK.

If you need more information, I could go back and look at my notes.

Linux guy,

My question was different but related to this thread.
since Redhat-3 I have been able to duplicate by systems using fdisk,
mkfs, and rsync. In those days it was easy to install lilo on the
replicated system disk to be.


I am still trying to do the same thing using F16. I had an rather
unfortunate experience with Ubuntu and wish to convert all of my
machines to F16.


I cannot find a discussion describing why the current F16 distribution
uses such a complicated partition scheme. I generally opt for two
partitions, a / partition and a swap partition. /boot lives under /. My
current system, working great, is (from fdisk):


Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 * 2048 935733247 467865600 83 Linux
/dev/sda2 935733248 976773119 20519936 82 Linux swap / Solaris

I purchased a couple of disks so I could replicate this system to my
other machines. First problem was that the disks are GPT, so fdisk will
not work (please fix it!). I used parted to make the partitions with the
first partition starting at 2048 (I didn't know why at the time, I just
copied what the full distribution disk had done on install). The
partitions on the new disk are (from parted --list):


Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/4096B
Partition Table: gpt

Number Start End Size File system Name Flags
1 1049kB 730GB 730GB ext4 primary boot
2 730GB 750GB 20.2GB linux-swap(v1) primary

But now I cannot find a method to make the disk bootable. I found the
following web page:


http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/grub-2.html

which describes a tool called grub2-mkrescue F16. As I understand, it
will make a bootable CD that contains grub2 that will boot the system on
you hard drive. One can then us the grub2-mkconfig, or maybe
grub2-install to make the new drive bootable.


But the grub2-mkrescue fails looking for xorriso:

grub2-mkrescue -o bootableGrub.iso
Enabling BIOS support ...
/usr/bin/grub2-mkrescue: line 310: xorriso: command not found

Should this work? Please advise.

Thanks,
Don




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Old 02-08-2012, 04:48 PM
Michael Cronenworth
 
Default preupgrade grub2 failed: now can't boot

Greg Woods wrote:

This is the area at the beginning of the disk, before the first
partition. Grub2 needs the first partition to start at 2048, but default
partition layouts from Grub-1 systems start at 63. I have run into this
several times and it is a royal pain. There may be some games you can
play with gparted (shrink the partition, then move it), or you can do
like I did, which is to dump the first partition, change it to start at
2048 (shrinking it a bit), making a new file system on the new
partition, and restoring it.


There is a way to force grub2 to install on systems with small starting
areas. I have a system with only 64 sectors (0-63) running grub2 just fine.


Yes, preupgrade should catch these cases before doing any work. Since
I've gone through all the pain on several systems I'm too tired to file
an RFE.

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Old 02-08-2012, 05:36 PM
sean darcy
 
Default preupgrade grub2 failed: now can't boot

On 02/08/2012 12:48 PM, Michael Cronenworth wrote:

Greg Woods wrote:

This is the area at the beginning of the disk, before the first
partition. Grub2 needs the first partition to start at 2048, but default
partition layouts from Grub-1 systems start at 63. I have run into this
several times and it is a royal pain. There may be some games you can
play with gparted (shrink the partition, then move it), or you can do
like I did, which is to dump the first partition, change it to start at
2048 (shrinking it a bit), making a new file system on the new
partition, and restoring it.


There is a way to force grub2 to install on systems with small starting
areas. I have a system with only 64 sectors (0-63) running grub2 just fine.

Yes, preupgrade should catch these cases before doing any work. Since
I've gone through all the pain on several systems I'm too tired to file
an RFE.


The more I think about this the more bizarre it is that preupgrade
doesn't catch this.


Almost all (all?) users of preupgrade are using grub1.

As I understand it, most (all?) grub1 systems have the first partition
starting at 63.


Any system with a first partition starting at 63 will be bricked if it
runs preupgrade to F16.


Therefore, most systems using preupgrade to F16 will be bricked.

Am I missing something?

sean

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Old 02-08-2012, 05:45 PM
Reindl Harald
 
Default preupgrade grub2 failed: now can't boot

Am 08.02.2012 19:36, schrieb sean darcy:
> On 02/08/2012 12:48 PM, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
>> Greg Woods wrote:
>>> This is the area at the beginning of the disk, before the first
>>> partition. Grub2 needs the first partition to start at 2048, but default
>>> partition layouts from Grub-1 systems start at 63. I have run into this
>>> several times and it is a royal pain. There may be some games you can
>>> play with gparted (shrink the partition, then move it), or you can do
>>> like I did, which is to dump the first partition, change it to start at
>>> 2048 (shrinking it a bit), making a new file system on the new
>>> partition, and restoring it.
>>
>> There is a way to force grub2 to install on systems with small starting
>> areas. I have a system with only 64 sectors (0-63) running grub2 just fine.
>>
>> Yes, preupgrade should catch these cases before doing any work. Since
>> I've gone through all the pain on several systems I'm too tired to file
>> an RFE.
>
> The more I think about this the more bizarre it is that preupgrade doesn't catch this.
>
> Almost all (all?) users of preupgrade are using grub1.

yes

> As I understand it, most (all?) grub1 systems have the first partition starting at 63.

no, only the one who survived fedora some time :-)
with F14 a new install started at 2048 (my currently physical hardware)

but i have no understanding for changes / replacemenets brikcing well
running systems installed years ago because for me the main benefit
of a OS with package-managment is that it does not die slowly

if upgrade on perfect running virtual servers installed 2008 with F9
and survived until F15 will be bricked with F16 (GRUB2) or F17 (usrMove)
then the contributors should start to be much more careful or they will
sooner or later left alone and then they can do and brick what they want

but i have a little hope this is not the intention

yes i am not soo positive becasue the quality of the distribution
at release state is going down with each new version instead better

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Old 02-09-2012, 12:57 AM
Greg Woods
 
Default preupgrade grub2 failed: now can't boot

On Wed, 2012-02-08 at 13:36 -0500, sean darcy wrote:

> Almost all (all?) users of preupgrade are using grub1.
>
> As I understand it, most (all?) grub1 systems have the first partition
> starting at 63.
>
> Any system with a first partition starting at 63 will be bricked if it
> runs preupgrade to F16.

This last part seems not to be true. Someone else pointed out that there
is a way to force grub2 to install on a disk with only 63 free blocks at
the beginning, as that was the case with my desktop that I upgraded
F14->F15->F16. It initially booted into F16 just fine. The problem was
that I could then not modify the grub configuration; whenever I tried, I
got the "embedding area is too small" error. Even something as simple as
increasing the grub timeout was not possible.

I expect the way to "force" it to install in a 63 block embedding area
will be kludgy in some way and sooner or later it will bite you in the
ass, so I think eventually you will want to repartition the disk so that
it has a 2048 block embedding area.

My experience with doing that was variable. When I tried this on my
wife's desktop, where the first partition was root, I was able to dump
and restore and complete the upgrade, but I ended up with a system that
I could not update. I got a lot of bizarre errors from "yum update"
saying "you should report these errors". But I'm using at least one
third-party repo (rpmfusion) so I expect my system is considered
"tainted" for this.

On my Dell laptop, where the first partition is a small partition that
just has some Dell utilities for Windoze on it, it was easy to dump,
repartition, and restore, and everything worked after that.

Except for one more problem. I have always created /var as a separate
partition, so if something goes bonkers logging (which I have seen more
than once), it won't fill up the root partition. That's what /var is
for, right? And yet, upgrading from F15 to F16 always fails if /var is a
separate partition; you get an error about not being able to find the
RPM database. In every case, I had to put the /var files back onto the
root partition to get the upgrade to work.

All in all, the upgrade to F16 was by far the most difficult Fedora
upgrade I have ever done.

--Greg


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Old 02-09-2012, 01:07 AM
Greg Woods
 
Default preupgrade grub2 failed: now can't boot

On Wed, 2012-02-08 at 18:57 -0700, Greg Woods wrote:

> This last part seems not to be true. Someone else pointed out that there
> is a way to force grub2 to install on a disk with only 63 free blocks at
> the beginning

Which brings up another related question. Is it possible to install
grub2 into a partition? In the past I have done this so that I can have
the main disk boot block reference a grub.conf which is only chainloader
declarations (boot Linux, or boot Windows), and then I have another
partition that has grub on it that presents the usual choice of Linux
kernels that are currently installed.

The reason I do this is so that I can hibernate Linux, then boot
Windows, then come back to my hibernated Linux. Without the
chainloading, what happens after hibernation is that, upon restart, it
immediately launches into restoring the hibernated configuration and I
lose the ability to save a hibernated Linux while running Windows.

I'm just wondering how I can accomplish this in grub2.

--Greg


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Old 02-10-2012, 06:25 PM
don fisher
 
Default preupgrade grub2 failed: now can't boot

On 02/10/12 16:25, linux guy wrote:

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Greg Woods<woods@ucar.edu> wrote:


All in all, the upgrade to F16 was by far the most difficult Fedora
upgrade I have ever done.


I agree ! F15 and F16 were terrible upgrades for me.

However, if you used the Install DVD, it goes very smoothly.

Because of the last 2 upgrades, I've become leary of the preupgrade
process. I think I'll use the DVD for F17 as well.


Hi,

I have had many problems, as seen by the number of times I have posted
in the past week. There are some things that just make no sense.
1. In the install DVD the provide the option to make your own partition
layout, but there is no provision in the pull down menu to make the
bios-grub partition.
2. Why do they make a /home partition be default. That should be a
choice for those that do not like partitions. (I usually have just a
root partition and a swap partition).
3. Why do they force a boot partition? As far as I know using /boot has
worked since Fedora2.
4. Why is the starting group number 1000? I was assigned the ID/group of
239 back in 1994. All of my systems know me by that number, which is
very convenient when you NFS mount many disks. I exited /etc/login.defs
to allow 239 and have had many mysterious problems. system-config-users
does not appear to work!


Is there a place where the logic for these changes would be documented?
Is there a place where system management from command line is
documented? Some of us do not like sluggish window managers. The old
fvwm does everything I desire, and more.


Don
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:25 PM
linux guy
 
Default preupgrade grub2 failed: now can't boot

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Greg Woods <woods@ucar.edu> wrote:

> All in all, the upgrade to F16 was by far the most difficult Fedora
> upgrade I have ever done.

I agree ! F15 and F16 were terrible upgrades for me.

However, if you used the Install DVD, it goes very smoothly.

Because of the last 2 upgrades, I've become leary of the preupgrade
process. I think I'll use the DVD for F17 as well.
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:01 AM
Tim
 
Default preupgrade grub2 failed: now can't boot

On Fri, 2012-02-10 at 12:25 -0700, don fisher wrote:
> 3. Why do they force a boot partition? As far as I know using /boot
> has worked since Fedora2.

Because the boot process can only start from certain filing systems,
it's more restricted than other things. But the system, once booted,
can make use of better filing systems. And it does use a better one, by
default.

Also, *some* computers can only boot from the low cylinders on the disc,
this issue has *always* been the case. With a boot partition, it's
relatively easy to always ensure that the boot partition is readable by
the BIOS. But when boot is just files in /, then they could be placed
anywhere in the disc, including unreadable places. Even if the system
was initially bootable, that's no guarantee that your system can
continue to boot up without a boot partition. Any updates that get
installed might put newer files that are used by the boot processes into
an unreadable location.

> 4. Why is the starting group number 1000? I was assigned the ID/group
> of 239 back in 1994. All of my systems know me by that number, which
> is very convenient when you NFS mount many disks. I
> exited /etc/login.defs to allow 239 and have had many mysterious
> problems. system-config-users does not appear to work!

How did you manage that? As far as I know, the default lowest ID for
users has been 500, since the early Red Hat Linux days, long before
Fedora existed. So, in the normal run of things, you'd have to have
manually selected that ID, you wouldn't get assigned it.

There's a division that regards IDs below 500 as being system users, and
above 499 as actual users, and treats them differently in various ways,
some of which *might* cause you a problem if you try to do something
different.

Other distros use 1000 as the dividing line. And now Fedora is falling
into line with them, for consistency's sake across all *ix distros. Not
that I can forsee a need for 999 system users, but then I do not do any
large scale kind of computing (e.g. lots of services installed for lots
of users).

> Is there a place where the logic for these changes would be
> documented?

The release notes, as each release comes out...?

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