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Old 04-02-2008, 04:27 PM
"Mikkel L. Ellertson"
 
Default Linux is KING - Couldn't be hacked - Mac, Vista went down in flames

Les wrote:

On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 20:36 -0700, Richard England wrote:
Try dropping two trays , each about 2.5 feet long. They did that to me
in the data center when I was in grad school. Luckily I had just
printed they contents out and resequenced them. The manager of the data
center had a cow when I told the staff to put the deck back together,
but my advisor (bless him) stood behind me and insisted that if they had
taken due care it wouldn't have happened.


Ah cards, loved 'em (not). And drum cards. Boy there was an arcane art!

~~R


Did you have the diagonal line drawn on the top to help?

If they were Fortran, or COBOL, you could always sort on the line
number. I don't remember the other languages having line numbers.

Regards,
Les H

Are you sure about Fortran and COBOL having line numbers? I didn't
use COBOL enough to remember any more, but I remember only using
line numbers or labels in FORTRAN if they were the target of a
branching instruction.


Mikkel
--

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons,
for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!

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Old 04-02-2008, 04:53 PM
Jim
 
Default Linux is KING - Couldn't be hacked - Mac, Vista went down in flames

Les wrote:

Me! Me! I know that one... Replaced by card controlled matrix devices.

Regards,
Les H
On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 12:10 -0400, Dick Seabrook wrote:


On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 11:50 PM, mjwestkamper
<mjwestkamper@weiinc.com> wrote:
Ever hear of:
a IBM 1401
an IBM 7090
Punch cards,
coding pad
FORTRAN


Yes, but how many remember "plug-to-c" ?

Dick S.

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Boy !! isn't great to here the Old hackers talk it over, great way to
learn "Computer History"


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Old 04-02-2008, 06:21 PM
"Mikkel L. Ellertson"
 
Default Linux is KING - Couldn't be hacked - Mac, Vista went down in flames

Les wrote:

On my punch cards they did. Every card had a number sequential to the
sequence. The punch we used inserted them automatically. Well, the
programming card did. The reference number used for calls may have been
different, but I don't remember it.


Our programs were HUGE, multiple trays. Each tray was denoted by the
color of the diagonal line. We had 8 colors, so I guess we never had
more than 8 trays, because I don't remember pairs of lines anywhere.

Regards,
Les H
Was the number actually punched in the card, or was it only printed
on the top of the card? Printed on the top of the card would not
require any modification of the card reader routine, and would not
eat up columns on the punch card. If I remember correctly, you only
had 80/card.


If the number was punched, I could picture a program that would
re-order the program based on the number, if the cards were messed
up, but you would probably have needed a mini-computer to do that,
and feed it to the mainframe.


Mikkel
--

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting a bad thing?


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Old 04-02-2008, 07:02 PM
tom
 
Default Linux is KING - Couldn't be hacked - Mac, Vista went down in flames

On Wed, 2 Apr 2008, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:


Les wrote:

On my punch cards they did. Every card had a number sequential to the
sequence. The punch we used inserted them automatically. Well, the
programming card did. The reference number used for calls may have been
different, but I don't remember it.
Our programs were HUGE, multiple trays. Each tray was denoted by the
color of the diagonal line. We had 8 colors, so I guess we never had
more than 8 trays, because I don't remember pairs of lines anywhere.

Regards,
Les H
Was the number actually punched in the card, or was it only printed on the
top of the card? Printed on the top of the card would not require any
modification of the card reader routine, and would not eat up columns on the
punch card. If I remember correctly, you only had 80/card.


If the number was punched, I could picture a program that would re-order the
program based on the number, if the cards were messed up, but you would
probably have needed a mini-computer to do that, and feed it to the
mainframe.


I seem to recall that the machine room at school had a card sorter which
would mechanically sort the cards. That sorter wasn't used much by the
time I got there as there was enough virtual memory on the computer(s) for
the school to perform the sort in memory and repunch (for a fee). Best to
not reorder your deck.


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Old 04-02-2008, 07:08 PM
tom
 
Default Linux is KING - Couldn't be hacked - Mac, Vista went down in flames

On Wed, 2 Apr 2008, Jim wrote:


Les wrote:

Me! Me! I know that one... Replaced by card controlled matrix devices.

Regards,
Les H
On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 12:10 -0400, Dick Seabrook wrote:


On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 11:50 PM, mjwestkamper
<mjwestkamper@weiinc.com> wrote:
Ever hear of:
a IBM 1401
an IBM 7090
Punch cards,
coding pad
FORTRAN
Yes, but how many remember "plug-to-c" ?
Dick S.

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Boy !! isn't great to here the Old hackers talk it over, great way to learn
"Computer History"



You know, if memory serves, some of the list members are approaching four
score years. They should remember what they were doing about the time the
first commercial digital computers were released upon the world.


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Old 04-02-2008, 09:00 PM
Thompson Freeman
 
Default Linux is KING - Couldn't be hacked - Mac, Vista went down in flames

On 04/02/2008 04:29:27 PM, Tim wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 09:31 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> > Microsoft's entry into the personal computer market was by
> supplying
>
> > a version of BASIC that for several operating systems.
>
> And wasn't it awful... I know BASIC's sneered upon, as there are
> plenty
> of better things, but BASIC was a simple starting position for a lot
> of
> people. It was also the only system available for a lot of home
> personal computing, for a long time. Though, it typically was a very
> feature limited interpreter. We had it on a Data General mainframe,
> amongst other languages, and that went in the opposite direction -
> very
> featured, and gave you very verbose and lengthy error reports about
> your
> syntax errors.
>
> Many years ago I can remember tinkering around with Microsoft's BASIC
> on
> the Amiga, since it was the only programming language I had to play
> with
> on it, at the time. And actually managing to make a small relational
> database with it, even though it hardly has the features that you
> need
> for something like that. It wasn't anything really complex though,
> just
> interrelated databases of services, clients, quotes, and the ability
> to
> turn a quote into an invoice.
Ugliest BASIC _I_ can vaguely remember was on a Varian instrument.
Memory say it was from U of British Columbia or some such. It was a
Unix BASIC, which I ran into about 1983.

Best part was Varian shipped it on the instrument, but there was no
lead to _any_ documentation anywhere.

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Old 04-02-2008, 09:09 PM
Thompson Freeman
 
Default Linux is KING - Couldn't be hacked - Mac, Vista went down in flames

On 04/02/2008 03:18:56 PM, Dick Seabrook wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 3:08 PM, tom <tfreeman@intel.digichem.net>
> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2 Apr 2008, Jim wrote:
> >
> > You know, if memory serves, some of the list members are
> approaching four
> > score years. They should remember what they were doing about the
> time the
> > first commercial digital computers were released upon the world.
> >
> > That would be the UNIVAC I in 1952, which went to the Census Bureau
> as I
> recall.
> I was too young for computing -- spent most of the time watching
> Arthur
> Godfrey
> and Jerry Lester (remember him?) on TV. Seems to me that was also
> the year
> Elizabeth II was crowned, Adlai Stevenson lost the election to Ike,
> etc....
> I got a way to go before I hit four-score!
> Dick S.
Well, I chose four score years partly to be difficult. But also I chose
it to suggest teenagers and young adults, and there are some on this
list who would qualify.

Myself, I don't get to have many personal memories until after FORTRAN
and COBOL and LISP made the scene - too young

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