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Old 04-02-2008, 04:09 PM
Les
 
Default Linux is KING - Couldn't be hacked - Mac, Vista went down in flames

On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 20:36 -0700, Richard England wrote:
> BRUCE STANLEY wrote:
> >
> >
> > */Tim <ignored_mailbox@yahoo.com.au>/* wrote:
> >
> > Tim:
> > >> have the CPU op-code cheat sheet in the coat pocket... ;-)
> >
> > Les:
> > > I memorized it and threw it away. Does that mean I fail the test?
> >
> > If you code in pen and ink before even going near the computer, that
> > counts.
> >
> > Back when I were a lad, we didn't use no debugger. We'd print the
> > code,
> > and attack the printout with pencils out to mark all the bugs and
> > corrections, then type the changes back in.
> >
> > Tim, waiting for one of the old codgers to tell us a tale of how they
> > had to make the valves and warm them up before starting... ;-)
> >
> > =========
> >
> > Type them in? I remember punching them in on Hollerith cards.
> >
> > Dropped a pile of them once.
> >
> > That motivated me to have the punch card machine to put sequence numbers
> > on the cards so that they could be resorted again.
> > punch card machine
> Try dropping two trays , each about 2.5 feet long. They did that to me
> in the data center when I was in grad school. Luckily I had just
> printed they contents out and resequenced them. The manager of the data
> center had a cow when I told the staff to put the deck back together,
> but my advisor (bless him) stood behind me and insisted that if they had
> taken due care it wouldn't have happened.
>
> Ah cards, loved 'em (not). And drum cards. Boy there was an arcane art!
>
> ~~R
>
Did you have the diagonal line drawn on the top to help?

If they were Fortran, or COBOL, you could always sort on the line
number. I don't remember the other languages having line numbers.

Regards,
Les H

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Old 04-02-2008, 04:44 PM
Les
 
Default Linux is KING - Couldn't be hacked - Mac, Vista went down in flames

Me! Me! I know that one... Replaced by card controlled matrix devices.

Regards,
Les H
On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 12:10 -0400, Dick Seabrook wrote:
>
> On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 11:50 PM, mjwestkamper
> <mjwestkamper@weiinc.com> wrote:
> Ever hear of:
> a IBM 1401
> an IBM 7090
> Punch cards,
> coding pad
> FORTRAN
>
>
> Yes, but how many remember "plug-to-c" ?
> Dick S.
>
> --
> Dick Seabrook ~ Anne Arundel Community College
> http://enterprise.aacc.edu/~rhs ~ Speed the Net!
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Old 04-02-2008, 04:48 PM
Les
 
Default Linux is KING - Couldn't be hacked - Mac, Vista went down in flames

On my punch cards they did. Every card had a number sequential to the
sequence. The punch we used inserted them automatically. Well, the
programming card did. The reference number used for calls may have been
different, but I don't remember it.

Our programs were HUGE, multiple trays. Each tray was denoted by the
color of the diagonal line. We had 8 colors, so I guess we never had
more than 8 trays, because I don't remember pairs of lines anywhere.

Regards,
Les H
On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 11:27 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> Les wrote:
> > On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 20:36 -0700, Richard England wrote:
> >> Try dropping two trays , each about 2.5 feet long. They did that to me
> >> in the data center when I was in grad school. Luckily I had just
> >> printed they contents out and resequenced them. The manager of the data
> >> center had a cow when I told the staff to put the deck back together,
> >> but my advisor (bless him) stood behind me and insisted that if they had
> >> taken due care it wouldn't have happened.
> >>
> >> Ah cards, loved 'em (not). And drum cards. Boy there was an arcane art!
> >>
> >> ~~R
> >>
> > Did you have the diagonal line drawn on the top to help?
> >
> > If they were Fortran, or COBOL, you could always sort on the line
> > number. I don't remember the other languages having line numbers.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Les H
> >
> Are you sure about Fortran and COBOL having line numbers? I didn't
> use COBOL enough to remember any more, but I remember only using
> line numbers or labels in FORTRAN if they were the target of a
> branching instruction.
>
> Mikkel
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Old 04-02-2008, 05:28 PM
Manuel Aróstegui
 
Default Linux is KING - Couldn't be hacked - Mac, Vista went down in flames

El mié, 02-04-2008 a las 12:53 -0400, Jim escribió:
>
> Boy !! isn't great to here the Old hackers talk it over, great way to
> learn "Computer History"
>

I feel like a baby :-)
Manuel

--
Manuel Arostegui Ramirez.

Electronic Mail is not secure, might not be read every day, and should not
be used for urgent or sensitive issues.

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Old 04-02-2008, 06:09 PM
Matthew Saltzman
 
Default Linux is KING - Couldn't be hacked - Mac, Vista went down in flames

On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 09:48 -0700, Les wrote:
> On my punch cards they did. Every card had a number sequential to the
> sequence. The punch we used inserted them automatically. Well, the
> programming card did. The reference number used for calls may have been
> different, but I don't remember it.

Those weren't line numbers per se (in the sense that BASIC had line
numbers, for example). In FORTRAN, an 80-column card was divided into
fields:

Column 1: 'C' indicated a comment line, ' ' a code line.

Column 2-6: Statement label numbers. These were arbitrary numbers used
as targets for FORMAT, GOTO and "computed GOTO" (now *that* was a flow
control concept!), and DO statements. These did not have to obey any
ordering rules. There was no concept of an if-else block or a while
loop with a logical test, so flow control was handled by GOTOs of some
variety. Targeted statements were usually CONTINUE statements (no-ops),
because there was some ambiguity regarding when the targeted statement
was actually executed, and because it made reorganizing the flow a bit
easier (especially with punchcards[1]).

Column 7-72: Code.

Column 73-80: Ignored. Intended to be used for sequence numbers so you
could sort the cards down in order if somebody dropped the deck. The
numbers could be anything really, for example a three-letter alpha code
identifying the deck and a four-digit sequence number.

(Somebody is bound to correct me on the actual column numbers, now...)

Aside: In the early FORTRANs, the body of a loop was always executed
once, even though the test was at the top of the loop. So you needed a
guard if you wanted to avoid making any passes through the loop at all.
That changed with FORTRAN 77.

[1] Of course, you'd want to re-sequence cards at some point if you
reordered them.

>
> Our programs were HUGE, multiple trays. Each tray was denoted by the
> color of the diagonal line. We had 8 colors, so I guess we never had
> more than 8 trays, because I don't remember pairs of lines anywhere.
>
> Regards,
> Les H
> On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 11:27 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> > Les wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 20:36 -0700, Richard England wrote:
> > >> Try dropping two trays , each about 2.5 feet long. They did that to me
> > >> in the data center when I was in grad school. Luckily I had just
> > >> printed they contents out and resequenced them. The manager of the data
> > >> center had a cow when I told the staff to put the deck back together,
> > >> but my advisor (bless him) stood behind me and insisted that if they had
> > >> taken due care it wouldn't have happened.
> > >>
> > >> Ah cards, loved 'em (not). And drum cards. Boy there was an arcane art!
> > >>
> > >> ~~R
> > >>
> > > Did you have the diagonal line drawn on the top to help?
> > >
> > > If they were Fortran, or COBOL, you could always sort on the line
> > > number. I don't remember the other languages having line numbers.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Les H
> > >
> > Are you sure about Fortran and COBOL having line numbers? I didn't
> > use COBOL enough to remember any more, but I remember only using
> > line numbers or labels in FORTRAN if they were the target of a
> > branching instruction.
> >
> > Mikkel
> > --
> > fedora-list mailing list
> > fedora-list@redhat.com
> > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
>
>
--
Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs

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