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Old 01-05-2012, 03:38 AM
"M. Fioretti"
 
Default About expelling "Linda" and similar people

On Wed, Jan 04, 2012 21:29:45 PM +0100, Patrick Lists wrote:
> On 04-01-12 20:08, JB wrote:

> >I think this list should not be moderated at all because as I
> >already said it can be easily manipulated into killing it.
> ...
> IMO that Linda person is killing this list

As far as "Linda" is concerned, she (?) really, really felt to me from
the very first moment as nobody else than the K. Larsen guy who messed
up around here and on Ubuntu lists till one or two years ago, with
another address. But this is just a personal feeling, not supported by
any fact, only reported for your amusement.

Apart from this, I've tried to ignore this issue for as long as I
could, but apparently isn't possible anymore. I am against general
moderation here for a lot of reasons, but I am all for expelling
subscribers like these quickly, every time they appear, period. I
can't understand why it didn't happened weeks ago.

Arguing that one should be "patient with newbies who come from
Windows", as somebody wrote in defense of "Linda" weeks ago doesn't
make sense. Being a Windows user and/or a total newbie, and being a
totally annoying, group-destructing moron are totally separate issues,
why should the first be an excuse for the second?

The reason why people like these should be expelled is that they do
kill communities, but (also) in a way that I haven't seen mentioned
yet.

What makes one distro different from another is (among other things,
of course) the effectiveness and usefulness of its mail archives and
the effort it takes to follow them for a newbie.

Personally, I have NO problem at all to filter out everything about
"Linda". I do filter out uninteresting mailing list threads all the
time anyway with this great procmail trick I invite everybody to try:

http://freesoftware.zona-m.net/how-ignore-uninteresting-threads-in-mailing-lists/

In spite of this, "Linda" still is killing this list because the
archives are full of crap from/about her. What recent archives tell
now is not "how to use fedora". It is:

a) if you want to get or give help here you have to set up special
filters, because no Fedora person cares about making your mailing
list usage as smooth as possible

b) if you want to learn something by browsing the archives, learn
first to do without **any** thread in which "Linda" appears, there will
be nothing but noise in there.

Even if there are never personal attacks, a community with a mailing
list whose inboxes and archives are free playgrounds for Lindas looks
like a restaurant whose owner won't kick out customers giving speeches
from their table because "ear plugs are so very easy to use".

This is the main reason why years ago I stopped trying Debian AND made
a point to NEVER recommend Debian to anyone. Three or four veteran
subscribers regularly used the list to ramble for days about
EVERYTHING that crossed their mind, filling both inboxes and archives
with hundreds (literally) of messages of irrelevant stuff. They would
explain you how to set up a firewall, then drop in some memory of
college in the same paragraph and ramble along for days.

the moderator wouldn't care and if anybody tried to tell them to stop,
he would be doctored both by those morons in a very Linda-like style,
and by other subscribers, that they could ramble as they pleased
because "it is very easy to filter me out, just set up your procmail
like this..."

So, no to actual moderation, but as soon as some character like this
PROVES he/she won't stop as Linda abundantly proved, block him for
good, please.

Marco
http://mfioretti.com
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Old 01-05-2012, 04:15 AM
"pringler01@gmail.com"
 
Default About expelling "Linda" and similar people

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 1:38 AM, M. Fioretti <mfioretti@nexaima.net> wrote:


On Wed, Jan 04, 2012 21:29:45 PM +0100, Patrick Lists wrote:

> On 04-01-12 20:08, JB wrote:



> >I think this list should not be moderated at all because as I

> >already said it can be easily manipulated into killing it.

> ...

> IMO that Linda person is killing this list



As far as "Linda" is concerned, she (?) really, really felt to me from

the very first moment as nobody else than the K. Larsen guy who messed

up around here and on Ubuntu lists till one or two years ago, with

another address. But this is just a personal feeling, not supported by

any fact, only reported for your amusement.



Apart from this, I've tried to ignore this issue for as long as I

could, but apparently isn't possible anymore. I am against general

moderation here for a lot of reasons, but I am all for expelling

subscribers like these quickly, every time they appear, period. I

can't understand why it didn't happened weeks ago.



Arguing that one should be "patient with newbies who come from

Windows", as somebody wrote in defense of "Linda" weeks ago doesn't

make sense. Being a Windows user and/or a total newbie, and being a

totally annoying, group-destructing moron are totally separate issues,

why should the first be an excuse for the second?



The reason why people like these should be expelled is that they do

kill communities, but (also) in a way that I haven't seen mentioned

yet.



What makes one distro different from another is (among other things,

of course) the effectiveness and usefulness of its mail archives and

the effort it takes to follow them for a newbie.



Personally, I have NO problem at all to filter out everything about

"Linda". I do filter out uninteresting mailing list threads all the

time anyway with this great procmail trick I invite everybody to try:



http://freesoftware.zona-m.net/how-ignore-uninteresting-threads-in-mailing-lists/



In spite of this, "Linda" still is killing this list because the

archives are full of crap from/about her. What recent archives tell

now is not "how to use fedora". It is:



a) if you want to get or give help here you have to set up special

* filters, because no Fedora person cares about making your mailing

* list usage as smooth as possible



b) if you want to learn something by browsing the archives, learn

* first to do without **any** thread in which "Linda" appears, there will

* be nothing but noise in there.



Even if there are never personal attacks, a community with a mailing

list whose inboxes and archives are free playgrounds for Lindas looks

like a restaurant whose owner won't kick out customers giving speeches

from their table because "ear plugs are so very easy to use".



This is the main reason why years ago I stopped trying Debian AND made

a point to NEVER recommend Debian to anyone. Three or four veteran

subscribers regularly used the list to ramble for days about

EVERYTHING that crossed their mind, filling both inboxes and archives

with hundreds (literally) of messages of irrelevant stuff. They would

explain you how to set up a firewall, then drop in some memory of

college in the same paragraph and ramble along for days.



the moderator wouldn't care and if anybody tried to tell them to stop,

he would be doctored both by those morons in a very Linda-like style,

and by other subscribers, that they could ramble as they pleased

because "it is very easy to filter me out, just set up your procmail

like this..."



So, no to actual moderation, but as soon as some character like this

PROVES he/she won't stop as Linda abundantly proved, block him for

good, please.



* * *Marco

* * *http://mfioretti.com

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I am new to the list, and enjoy reading the discussions, But, maybe because i am new to the list, I start reading stuff about NFS or some gnome shell problem (look like they are common this days) and suddenly I start reading some stuff about a lady who may o may not be crazy, and the first things that pop my mind is say ok, and I keep doing my thing.


The day after that i hear users asking for explanations about what happend, like is someone is murder or something horrible. The admin, doing the right thing explain: a miscalculation in filters let this 1 mail slip trought the cracks. I say ok, thanks, now I know this list have humans (who may or may not be crazy).


Next morning, we have a discusssion two mile long talking about moderation and this fight about his guy from GNOME who offers to help (and because some thing happen who know when is shout like the spartan from 300: This is madness!!).


Look I new here, and i dont know much about fedora or GNOME (except that this days everyone want their GNOME 3 to be special or something), but is not more easy to make a comitte and say: OK, guys we make some rules (like if you do this or that, bad things happens to you mail account), and if some guy (who may o may not be crazy, male, female, or any other geek stereotype) broke that said rule is just banned or have a warning?



My two cents

PD: I use this email because is was more of a personal opinion, not some answer to some OT discussion.
PD2: I am from Argentina, and now is 2 in the morning, if someone feels that i am being disrespectful or the joke aint funny, newbie, please please just sent me a mail to know, and to not make the mistake again.


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Old 01-05-2012, 04:32 AM
Claude Jones
 
Default About expelling "Linda" and similar people

On 01/05/2012 12:15 AM, pringler01@gmail.com wrote:

please please just sent me a mail to know, and to not make the mistake
again.


'Linda', whoever that may be, obviously craved attention, and many have
complied


--
Claude Jones
Brunswick, MD, USA
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:30 AM
Paul Allen Newell
 
Default About expelling "Linda" and similar people

On 1/4/2012 9:32 PM, Claude Jones wrote:

On 01/05/2012 12:15 AM, pringler01@gmail.com wrote:

please please just sent me a mail to know, and to not make the mistake
again.


'Linda', whoever that may be, obviously craved attention, and many
have complied




... and by you replying and my following with a reply, we both have
complied (I want to end this with a "smile" but the truth is that
"groan" is really the only correct sign-off)


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Old 01-05-2012, 04:34 PM
Heinz Diehl
 
Default About expelling "Linda" and similar people

On 05.01.2012, M. Fioretti wrote:

> As far as "Linda" is concerned, she (?) really, really felt to me from
> the very first moment as nobody else than the K. Larsen guy who messed
> up around here and on Ubuntu lists till one or two years ago, with
> another address.

Threads like this are completely useless and annoying, right from the
beginning. Because, if you don't like to read someone, just use a
filter or ignore the mails. The choice is yours. It's that simple.
No need to start a thread, solely for complaining "how bad she is",
and annoying people.



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Old 01-05-2012, 04:56 PM
Mike Chambers
 
Default About expelling "Linda" and similar people

On Thu, 2012-01-05 at 05:38 +0100, M. Fioretti wrote:

> As far as "Linda" is concerned, she (?) really, really felt to me from
> the very first moment as nobody else than the K. Larsen guy who messed
> up around here and on Ubuntu lists till one or two years ago, with
> another address. But this is just a personal feeling, not supported by
> any fact, only reported for your amusement.

I don't read or even browse every single email/topic that comes through,
so I dont' know anything bout this Linda person. Is there a particular
thread/convo she took part (so I can go back and check the archives) in
that describes what this person is doing or not doing?

Just curious what the riff is about.

--
Mike Chambers
Madisonville, KY

"Best little town on Earth!"

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Old 01-05-2012, 06:25 PM
"M. Fioretti"
 
Default About expelling "Linda" and similar people

On Thu, Jan 05, 2012 18:34:42 PM +0100, Heinz Diehl wrote:
> On 05.01.2012, M. Fioretti wrote:
>

> > As far as "Linda" is concerned, she (?) really, really felt to me
> > from the very first moment as nobody else than the K. Larsen guy
> > who messed up around here and on Ubuntu lists till one or two
> > years ago, with another address.
>
> Threads like this are completely useless and annoying, right from
> the beginning. Because, if you don't like to read someone, just use
> a filter or ignore the mails.

Please don't embarass yourself by replying to messages without reading
them entirely. Had you actually read what I posted, you would know
very well that:

1) I routinely filter out automatically uninteresting threads from
mailing lists (I even gave the link to the web page describing the
method I use) and that I HAVE systematically done this with all
Linda's threads for months.

2) the reason why I asked to remove her has nothing to do with me,
because to _me_ (for the reason above) Linda DOESN'T CAUSE ANY
PROBLEM AT ALL, but with Fedora in general. Go back to read my
message until the restaurant example to know what I mean.

Happy 2012,
Marco F.
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Old 01-06-2012, 12:34 AM
Sam Sharpe
 
Default About expelling "Linda" and similar people

On 5 January 2012 19:25, M. Fioretti <mfioretti@nexaima.net> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 05, 2012 18:34:42 PM +0100, Heinz Diehl wrote:
>> Threads like this are completely useless and annoying, right from
>> the beginning. Because, if you don't like to read someone, just use
>> a filter or ignore the mails.
>
> Please don't embarass yourself by replying to messages without reading
> them entirely. Had you actually read what I posted, you would know
> very well that:

I agree with your sentiment and read your initial post in this thread,
however you may wish to embrace the TL;DR mentality that is common on
mailing lists. Learning to embrace it helps one write short and direct
posts, which are read more often.


--
Sam
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Old 01-06-2012, 10:29 AM
Tim
 
Default About expelling "Linda" and similar people

On Thu, 2012-01-05 at 11:56 -0600, Mike Chambers wrote:
> I don't read or even browse every single email/topic that comes
> through, so I dont' know anything bout this Linda person. Is there a
> particular thread/convo she took part (so I can go back and check the
> archives) in that describes what this person is doing or not doing?
>
> Just curious what the riff is about.

Virtually *any* of their postings. There's probably only about two or
three messages that were short and to the point.

--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I
read messages from the public lists.



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Old 01-06-2012, 06:14 PM
Heinz Diehl
 
Default About expelling "Linda" and similar people

On 06.01.2012, M. Fioretti wrote:

> Please don't embarass yourself by replying to messages without reading
> them entirely. Had you actually read what I posted, you would know
> very well that:
[....]

Do what you want. I don't care.

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