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Old 12-29-2011, 10:44 PM
"Linda McLeod"
 
Default "It's time for you to leave."

Re: Thanks Joel.. and "Does the computer "think"..?

From:
"Patrick Lists" <fedora-list@puzzled.xs4all.nl> [Add]
To:
"Community support for Fedora users" <users@lists.fedoraproject.org>
Date:
Wed, 28 Dec 2011 3:22 PM (1 day ago)
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On 29-12-11 00:00, Linda McLeod wrote:

Why is it possible for tens of thousands of subscribers to this list to
follow the mailing list guidelines, respect the goal of this mailing
list and show proper conduct when participating, except you?

What makes you so special that you think the rules do not apply to you?
That you think you can show such blatant disrespect?

Why do you choose to ignore several posts that point out that you are
out of line. Why do you continue your ridiculous behavior?

It's time for you to leave.

Patrick


________________________________



Bye-bye suckies.. maybe one day you'll have pulled yourn heads out yer
arses far enough to see I was really only trying to show you more
reality than your little box can hold.. go back to sleep...

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Old 12-29-2011, 10:56 PM
Joel Rees
 
Default "It's time for you to leave."

Just out of curiosity, Patrick, do your filters not work?

I mean, yeah, it costs me a couple of seconds if I open up one of her
posts and realize she's gone too far off-topic for me to help her with
the topical question buried in her rant, but, shoot, think about it.
This is precisely the kind of user we want to wean off of MSWindows.
(For all the reasons we want to get general users off that junk, only
more so.)

Moreover, and I mean no disrespect for Steve Jobs, but thinking
outside the box always seems at least a little bit incoherent.

(Yeah, I'm not always coherent, myself.)

Joel Rees

On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 8:44 AM, Linda McLeod <lindavaldeen@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> Re: Thanks Joel.. and "Does the computer "think"..?
>
> From:
> * *"Patrick Lists" <fedora-list@puzzled.xs4all.nl> [Add]
> To:
> * *"Community support for Fedora users" <users@lists.fedoraproject.org>
> Date:
> * *Wed, 28 Dec 2011 3:22 PM (1 day ago)
> * *Show message - Delete attached message - Save copy of attached
> * *message
> * *Show full header
>
> On 29-12-11 00:00, Linda McLeod wrote:
>
> Why is it possible for tens of thousands of subscribers to this list to
> follow the mailing list guidelines, respect the goal of this mailing
> list and show proper conduct when participating, except you?
>
> What makes you so special that you think the rules do not apply to you?
> That you think you can show such blatant disrespect?
>
> Why do you choose to ignore several posts that point out that you are
> out of line. Why do you continue your ridiculous behavior?
>
> It's time for you to leave.
>
> Patrick
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>
> Bye-bye suckies.. *maybe one day you'll have pulled yourn heads out yer
> arses far enough to see I was really only trying to show you more
> reality than your little box can hold.. go back to sleep...
>
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Old 12-29-2011, 11:19 PM
Patrick O'Callaghan
 
Default "It's time for you to leave."

On Thu, 2011-12-29 at 15:44 -0800, Linda McLeod wrote:
> Bye-bye suckies

Dare we hope?

poc

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Old 12-30-2011, 02:57 AM
Patrick Lists
 
Default "It's time for you to leave."

On 30-12-11 00:56, Joel Rees wrote:

Just out of curiosity, Patrick, do your filters not work?


Filters work just fine and anything from this "Linda" person goes
directly to /dev/null.


It's just too bad that loonies like "Linda" and the threads that go on
and on further drifting away off-topic make for a rather bad S/N ratio.
Compare this list to for example the CentOS, Postfix, Dovecot, Asterisk
or FreeSWITCH mailing lists and you see a world of difference where
those lists are pretty strict in being on-topic, focused, professional
and provide quite a lot of good information. Would be nice if this list
got there too but I am not holding my breath. The same difference can be
seen comparing the Fedora irc channel to the irc channels of the other
lists I mentioned. I haven't figured out what is causing the vast
difference. Except that behavior from the likes of "Linda" and off-topic
stuff is generally not welcome on the other lists and irc channels and
dealt with appropriately.


Regards,
Patrick
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Old 12-30-2011, 03:16 AM
Craig White
 
Default "It's time for you to leave."

On Fri, 2011-12-30 at 04:57 +0100, Patrick Lists wrote:
> On 30-12-11 00:56, Joel Rees wrote:
> > Just out of curiosity, Patrick, do your filters not work?
>
> Filters work just fine and anything from this "Linda" person goes
> directly to /dev/null.
>
> It's just too bad that loonies like "Linda" and the threads that go on
> and on further drifting away off-topic make for a rather bad S/N ratio.
> Compare this list to for example the CentOS, Postfix, Dovecot, Asterisk
> or FreeSWITCH mailing lists and you see a world of difference where
> those lists are pretty strict in being on-topic, focused, professional
> and provide quite a lot of good information. Would be nice if this list
> got there too but I am not holding my breath. The same difference can be
> seen comparing the Fedora irc channel to the irc channels of the other
> lists I mentioned. I haven't figured out what is causing the vast
> difference. Except that behavior from the likes of "Linda" and off-topic
> stuff is generally not welcome on the other lists and irc channels and
> dealt with appropriately.
----
On this list, we have a pretty wide variety of users including those
that are simply desktop only end users that simply want to use a
computer and aren't necessarily computer hobbyists nor system admins.
Thus the fedora-users list doesn't even slightly resemble the other
lists that you mentioned and it seems to be an unreasonable expectation
that you have.

I tend to have a high tolerance for eccentric people but a low tolerance
for those who treat the list like a resource for their school homework
rather than actually make an attempt to obtain the answers but I guess
everyone has their own flash points. Despite the obvious meanderings,
Linda does have a genuine interest in using Fedora, has repeatedly
demonstrated some in depth knowledge of Linux and Fedora and has done
research. I don't share your obvious contempt for her presence and think
you have been unnecessarily harsh but you don't have to please any of
us.

Craig


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Old 12-30-2011, 04:44 AM
Patrick Lists
 
Default "It's time for you to leave."

On 30-12-11 05:16, Craig White wrote:

On this list, we have a pretty wide variety of users including those
that are simply desktop only end users that simply want to use a
computer and aren't necessarily computer hobbyists nor system admins.
Thus the fedora-users list doesn't even slightly resemble the other
lists that you mentioned and it seems to be an unreasonable expectation
that you have.


IMHO those who are totally inexperienced end-users may be better off
with Ubuntu or Mint. Given the cutting edge nature of this project it
seems less suited for inexperienced end-users. The other projects I
mentioned also get their fair share of n00bs. Nothing wrong with being a
n00b. In many areas I am sure I am a n00b too. Yet those projects seem
quite successful in maintaining how they want their Community to
interact. Don't see why it's unreasonable to expect an on-topic mailing
list.



I tend to have a high tolerance for eccentric people but a low tolerance
for those who treat the list like a resource for their school homework
rather than actually make an attempt to obtain the answers but I guess


Yeah the homework questions are always quite obvious.


everyone has their own flash points. Despite the obvious meanderings,
Linda does have a genuine interest in using Fedora, has repeatedly
demonstrated some in depth knowledge of Linux and Fedora and has done
research.


Agree to disagree. I see someone who is trolling and/or has some wires
cross-connected.


I don't share your obvious contempt for her presence and think

you have been unnecessarily harsh but you don't have to please any of
us.


Contempt? Nope, life's too short for that. If it's unnecessarily harsh
to point out the official purpose of this list and mailing list
guidelines then again let's agree to disagree.


Regards,
Patrick
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Old 12-30-2011, 05:29 AM
Joel Rees
 
Default "It's time for you to leave."

On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Patrick Lists
<fedora-list@puzzled.xs4all.nl> wrote:
> On 30-12-11 05:16, Craig White wrote:
>>
>> On this list, we have a pretty wide variety of users including those
>> that are simply desktop only end users that simply want to use a
>> computer and aren't necessarily computer hobbyists nor system admins.
>> [..]
> [...] I see someone who is trolling and/or has some wires
> cross-connected.

Reading her posts often reminds me of trying to teach my sisters how
to use something on the computer. All of them at once, on a day when
they definitely have their wires crossed.

She could be a relatively thoroughly constructed troll, I'll grant
that. But I've known women who were just like this. (I've known a few
guys whose thought streams were as hard to follow, too, really.)

Anyway, I can't be hard on her and then go try to ask my sisters to be
patient with the tech they don't understand. Would be a bit
hypocritical of me.

I do wonder where she gets the time and money to do the things she
asks about, ... .

--
Joel Rees
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Old 12-30-2011, 08:00 AM
nomnex
 
Default "It's time for you to leave."

> On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 21:16:16 -0700
> Craig White <craigwhite@azapple.com> wrote:
>
> I don't share your obvious contempt for her presence and think
> you have been unnecessarily harsh.

I think that too. I am a Fedora desktop user. My understanding is that
Fedora welcome a broad range of users. I have not problem with elitist
people, but tolerance has to come first, else it's being pedantic.

Patrick could have either filter her (his?) messages, either not
read them (what I did). No hard feeling on both sides.

my 2 cents.

--
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Freenode: nomnex
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Old 12-30-2011, 08:31 AM
antonio montagnani
 
Default "It's time for you to leave."

nomnex ha scritto / said the following il giorno/on 30/12/2011 10:00:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 21:16:16 -0700
Craig White<craigwhite@azapple.com> wrote:

I don't share your obvious contempt for her presence and think
you have been unnecessarily harsh.


I think that too. I am a Fedora desktop user. My understanding is that
Fedora welcome a broad range of users. I have not problem with elitist
people, but tolerance has to come first, else it's being pedantic.

Patrick could have either filter her (his?) messages, either not
read them (what I did). No hard feeling on both sides.

my 2 cents.

in this list a bunch of talebans (a list is easy to be prepared) think
to have the truth and of course the right to say what is right and what
is wrong.

Do they want to make people move to other places???
And thanks to their attitude (not the people they blame) makes this list
noisy


My two cents

--
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Skype: amontag52

Linux Fedora F16 (Verne) on Acer 5720

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http://www.campingmonterosa.com
http://www.studiodacolpaloschi.it



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Old 12-30-2011, 12:28 PM
Craig White
 
Default "It's time for you to leave."

On Fri, 2011-12-30 at 06:44 +0100, Patrick Lists wrote:
> On 30-12-11 05:16, Craig White wrote:
> > On this list, we have a pretty wide variety of users including those
> > that are simply desktop only end users that simply want to use a
> > computer and aren't necessarily computer hobbyists nor system admins.
> > Thus the fedora-users list doesn't even slightly resemble the other
> > lists that you mentioned and it seems to be an unreasonable expectation
> > that you have.
>
> IMHO those who are totally inexperienced end-users may be better off
> with Ubuntu or Mint. Given the cutting edge nature of this project it
> seems less suited for inexperienced end-users. The other projects I
> mentioned also get their fair share of n00bs. Nothing wrong with being a
> n00b. In many areas I am sure I am a n00b too. Yet those projects seem
> quite successful in maintaining how they want their Community to
> interact. Don't see why it's unreasonable to expect an on-topic mailing
> list.
----
I'm not sure that I agree with the notion that Ubuntu or Mint is better
for inexperienced users. The only difference that I can see is that
because of the location where Ubuntu is based, they don't feel the same
encumbrance of the US licensing/patents and thus it may be a easier to
get mp3's to play.

But Ubuntu list (to which I subscribe) has the same issues with
topicality.

Also, as far as I can tell, Fedora welcomes users of all levels of
skill.
----
> Contempt? Nope, life's too short for that. If it's unnecessarily harsh
> to point out the official purpose of this list and mailing list
> guidelines then again let's agree to disagree.
----
I think it's reasonable to presume contempt when you tell someone it's
time for them to leave.

As for the guidelines - sure - but there are all sorts of off-topic
postings including those by generally knowledgeable and helpful
posters... ie the recent discussions on eye sensitivity on colors. No,
you demonstrated contempt for a single participant - and actually one
that was a fairly avid Fedora user who obviously uses aging hardware
that struggles with the recent releases that are making it harder to use
a computer with less than 2GHz processor and 1MB RAM.

and yes, I am amenable to agreeing to disagree.

Craig


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