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Old 12-24-2011, 07:13 AM
jdow
 
Default Buy an SSD now, or wait?

On 2011/12/23 23:34, Marko Vojinovic wrote:

On Friday 23 December 2011 10:49:57 jdow wrote:

On 2011/12/23 08:57, Joe Zeff wrote:

On 12/23/2011 12:44 AM, Fernando Cassia wrote:

Also, give it time...


How much? We're still waiting for signs of major mutations from
Hiroshima and Nagasaki to show up.


Fukushima radiation mapped


Yeah. What they don't tell you, probably because the reporters don't
know it, is that much of the reason we're finding so much radiation is
because our detectors are a lot better than they were back in the days
of Chernobyl.


That's not exactly true. The radiation is quite easy to measure, and there is
no need for increased sensitivity of the detectors. It is true that todays
technology of making those detectors is better than it was in the time of
Chernobyl, but the detectors used back then were equally precise for the
purpose of measuring the excess radiation. If a detector can measure properly
the natural background radiation, it's good enough for everything stronger as
well.


What they are also not teaching you about is the number of now ripe old
people who have been living in the exclusion (high radiation) zone after
refusing to move out. They seem to live quite normal and healthy lives as
do the herds of wildlife, horses and so forth.


Are talking about Fukushima or Chernobyl?

AFAIK, those are just old people who refused to leave the Chernobyl exclusion
zone (or rather kept coming back after being removed). But there are no young
people living there. There are no children there either (nor living nor being
born). And there probably shouldn't be any, for a long time to come. I am not
so sure how "normal and healthy" that can be.

I am sometimes quite surprised about people downplaying the seriousness of
nuclear pollution. The common argument that "nobody has died yet" is
irrelevant --- it takes a fairly large amount of exposure to actually kill a
human by radiation. However, it takes a rather smaller amount of radiation to
contaminate the human DNA to the point of problems in reproduction. In
addition, it's a matter of future planning --- the "hot spots" in the
contaminated zone are dangeorous now, and they are going to stay dangeorous
for a very very long time. If the hot spots are not cleaned out (which may be
impossible in some cases), the pollution in those areas is to be considered
*permanent* for all intents and purposes, on the scale of the lifetime of
human civilization. Noone can faithfully claim to be able to keep those areas
"off limits to population" for the next 10 000 years or so.

I'd say that uncontrolled nuclear pollution is the single most irresponsible
thing that humans could ever do to this planet (bar a global thermonuclear
war). Oil spills, CO2 emmision and other "environmental" stuff that people are
talking about these days are a complete childsplay compared to this.

Best, :-)
Marko


Marko, look up Ramsar, Iran. It has a background radiation that would probably
leave you panicked if you found yourself there. On the average the people there
live longer and healthier than average for human beings.

The dangers of radiation are vastly overplayed by people who do not have YOUR
best interests in mind.

{^_^}
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Old 12-24-2011, 07:13 AM
"Wolfgang S. Rupprecht"
 
Default Buy an SSD now, or wait?

Christopher Svanefalk <christopher.svanefalk@gmail.com> writes:
> I just wondered if anyone here has had any experience in using SSDs in
> general, and with Fedora in particular? I am thinking about an upgrade,
> but I am uncertain whether it is worth it to invest in an SSD now, or
> let the technology ripen for a few more years. I believe the SSD market
> will expand massively in the coming years, and with that, innovation
> and development in the field as well, so waiting seems more reasonable
> at this stage. Any thoughts?

I got an Intel 320 series 120GB SSD for the F15 install. I wouldn't
have believed how much of a difference an SSD could make if I didn't
experience the change myself. There were just some things that the
system used to be slow at (like starting firefox, booting, etc.) It now
zips through those. While SSD's are expensive per GB, you really don't
need to put anything other than the base OS and /home on it. The Intel
320-series 120GB SSD is under $200. Even if the price drops in half in
a year, you'd have been using a slow system for another year just to
save $100.

-wolfgang
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Old 12-24-2011, 08:13 AM
Joe Zeff
 
Default Buy an SSD now, or wait?

On 12/23/2011 11:34 PM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:

That's not exactly true. The radiation is quite easy to measure, and there is
no need for increased sensitivity of the detectors.


It all depends on which radiation you're talking about. There was talk
in the early days after the quake and tsunami about detecting
radioisotopes crossing the Pacific, with the implication that the US
West Coast was in danger of major contamination. What was actually
detected were minute traces that wouldn't have triggered the detectors
in use at the time of Chernobyl. That's what I was referring to, and
I'll admit in hindsight that I should have been more specific.

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Old 12-24-2011, 09:25 AM
 
Default Buy an SSD now, or wait?

Returning to the topic,
Regarding radiation and ssd,
The only place i would seriously advise not to use ssd's is in satelites. As cosmic rediation has serious effect on even hard backed rom's and dynamic mem....

So unless you've booked a trip at virgin, or planned to stay at the ISS, you're probably safe....



----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
Van: jdow [mailto:jdow@earthlink.net]
Verzonden: Friday, December 23, 2011 07:49 PM
Aan: Community support for Fedora users <users@lists.fedoraproject.org>
Onderwerp: Re: Buy an SSD now, or wait?

On 2011/12/23 08:57, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 12/23/2011 12:44 AM, Fernando Cassia wrote:
>> Also, give it time...
>>
>
> How much? We're still waiting for signs of major mutations from Hiroshima and
> Nagasaki to show up.
>
>> Fukushima radiation mapped
>
> Yeah. What they don't tell you, probably because the reporters don't know it, is
> that much of the reason we're finding so much radiation is because our detectors
> are a lot better than they were back in the days of Chernobyl.

What they are also not teaching you about is the number of now ripe old people
who have been living in the exclusion (high radiation) zone after refusing to
move out. They seem to live quite normal and healthy lives as do the herds of
wildlife, horses and so forth.

{^_^}
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Old 12-24-2011, 02:50 PM
Marko Vojinovic
 
Default Buy an SSD now, or wait?

On Saturday 24 December 2011 01:13:56 Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 12/23/2011 11:34 PM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> > That's not exactly true. The radiation is quite easy to measure, and
> > there is no need for increased sensitivity of the detectors.
>
> It all depends on which radiation you're talking about. There was talk
> in the early days after the quake and tsunami about detecting
> radioisotopes crossing the Pacific, with the implication that the US
> West Coast was in danger of major contamination. What was actually
> detected were minute traces that wouldn't have triggered the detectors
> in use at the time of Chernobyl. That's what I was referring to, and
> I'll admit in hindsight that I should have been more specific.

Ah, ok. Measuring radiation levels on site and measuring migrated
radioisotopes on the other side of the globe are two completely different
games. :-)

Best, :-)
Marko


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Old 12-24-2011, 03:51 PM
Marko Vojinovic
 
Default Buy an SSD now, or wait?

On Saturday 24 December 2011 00:13:34 jdow wrote:
> On 2011/12/23 23:34, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> > I'd say that uncontrolled nuclear pollution is the single most
> > irresponsible thing that humans could ever do to this planet (bar a
> > global thermonuclear war). Oil spills, CO2 emmision and other
> > "environmental" stuff that people are talking about these days are a
> > complete childsplay compared to this.
>
> Marko, look up Ramsar, Iran. It has a background radiation that would
> probably leave you panicked if you found yourself there. On the average the
> people there live longer and healthier than average for human beings.

Did you look at the references in the wikipedia article on Ramsar? There is a
reported 11% infertility rate in women living in VHBRA, as compared to the 3%
in the nearby control group with normal background radiation level. There are
also chromosomal abberations etc. studied by the Iranian scientists there. It
is anything but a healthy environment.

But regardless of that, Ramsar is a high *natural* background radiation area.
This means that the radiation sources are typically underground and
distributed more or less evenly around the area. This is in sharp contrast
with nuclear reactor *fuel*, which can be distributed (in the uncontrolled
natural environment) very heterogenously.

The difference between natural radiation sources and nuclear fuel is mainly in
the fact that fuel is "enriched", ie. it has rather higher concentration per
unit volume than any natural piece of radioactive rock sitting around in
Ramsar. This has consequences, and it can also be life-threatening if one
comes close to such a source itself without protection (Marie Curie being the
most famous first victim of radiation exposure). If it cannot be cleaned away,
it becomes a life-threatening and environment-polluting "back-yard"
neighborhood for everyone, in the course of a dozen thousands of years or
more. What would you do with such places? Put a red tape and a "don't come any
closer" sign? Such things don't exist naturally, not in Ramsar nor anywhere
else on the planet.

> The dangers of radiation are vastly overplayed by people who do not have
> YOUR best interests in mind.

No conspiracy theories, please! :-) I am quite familiar myself with the
properties of interaction between radiation and matter (it's a part of my
profession), and I have a (very rough) idea what kind of stuff happens in a
human body exposed to radiation. There is *no* *way* I'm going to be convinced
that such a thing can actually be considered healthy. And I'm not basing my
opinion on what I was told by some random group of people on TV or elsewhere
(in this matter at least).

Best, :-)
Marko


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Old 12-24-2011, 04:20 PM
夜神 岩男
 
Default Buy an SSD now, or wait?

On 12/25/2011 01:51 AM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:

On Saturday 24 December 2011 00:13:34 jdow wrote:

On 2011/12/23 23:34, Marko Vojinovic wrote:

I'd say that uncontrolled nuclear pollution is the single most
irresponsible thing that humans could ever do to this planet (bar a
global thermonuclear war). Oil spills, CO2 emmision and other
"environmental" stuff that people are talking about these days are a
complete childsplay compared to this.


Marko, look up Ramsar, Iran. It has a background radiation that would
probably leave you panicked if you found yourself there. On the average the
people there live longer and healthier than average for human beings.


Did you look at the references in the wikipedia article on Ramsar? There is a
reported 11% infertility rate in women living in VHBRA, as compared to the 3%
in the nearby control group with normal background radiation level. There are
also chromosomal abberations etc. studied by the Iranian scientists there. It
is anything but a healthy environment.

But regardless of that, Ramsar is a high *natural* background radiation area.
This means that the radiation sources are typically underground and
distributed more or less evenly around the area. This is in sharp contrast
with nuclear reactor *fuel*, which can be distributed (in the uncontrolled
natural environment) very heterogenously.

The difference between natural radiation sources and nuclear fuel is mainly in
the fact that fuel is "enriched", ie. it has rather higher concentration per
unit volume than any natural piece of radioactive rock sitting around in
Ramsar. This has consequences, and it can also be life-threatening if one
comes close to such a source itself without protection (Marie Curie being the
most famous first victim of radiation exposure). If it cannot be cleaned away,
it becomes a life-threatening and environment-polluting "back-yard"
neighborhood for everyone, in the course of a dozen thousands of years or
more. What would you do with such places? Put a red tape and a "don't come any
closer" sign? Such things don't exist naturally, not in Ramsar nor anywhere
else on the planet.


The dangers of radiation are vastly overplayed by people who do not have
YOUR best interests in mind.


No conspiracy theories, please! :-) I am quite familiar myself with the
properties of interaction between radiation and matter (it's a part of my
profession), and I have a (very rough) idea what kind of stuff happens in a
human body exposed to radiation. There is *no* *way* I'm going to be convinced
that such a thing can actually be considered healthy. And I'm not basing my
opinion on what I was told by some random group of people on TV or elsewhere
(in this matter at least).


Going on vacation to Hiroshima next month. Planning on taking the wife
and kids. Anything special I should be worried about?


-Iwao
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Old 12-24-2011, 05:27 PM
Marko Vojinovic
 
Default Buy an SSD now, or wait?

On Sunday 25 December 2011 02:20:48 夜神 岩男 wrote:
> Going on vacation to Hiroshima next month. Planning on taking the wife
> and kids. Anything special I should be worried about?

Not that I know of.

AFAIK, the WW2 bomb residues have been cleaned up pretty thoroughly years ago,
in both Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Besides, there wasn't so much uranium in those
bombs to begin with... ;-)

Best, :-)
Marko


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Old 12-24-2011, 06:29 PM
Joe Zeff
 
Default Buy an SSD now, or wait?

On 12/24/2011 09:20 AM, 夜神 岩男 wrote:


Going on vacation to Hiroshima next month. Planning on taking the wife
and kids. Anything special I should be worried about?


Be sure to visit Peace Park. If it's anything like what I saw when I
visited Nagasaki's Peace Park, it's a beautiful place. In Nagasaki,
there's a statue at the center, pointing up to where the detonation
happened. And, for those of you who don't know what I'm referring to,
the two parks are at what most people would call Ground Zero.

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