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Old 12-23-2011, 02:07 PM
夜神 岩男
 
Default Buy an SSD now, or wait?

On 12/23/2011 11:47 PM, Alan Cox wrote:

advancement. That situation will ease--the industry is saying by second
quarter, but my bet is for at least a year, maybe 16-18 months (since they
have to either dry out and refurbish flooded facilities, build new
facilities, or expand existing facilities--all real-world bricks'n'sticks


Maybe - but given a big pile of insurance money and the fact the hard
disk market is clearly going to rapidly shrink as SSD, SDHC and the like
take over would you rebuild the factory or put the money into something
else ?

I seriously wonder how many of the HD manufacturers will bother to
rebuild those plants. Mend slighty damaged ones yes, but rebuild ?

I'm now using SSD for non-critical data but with a hard disk as the
mirror and with my home dir split into two sections one on each. I guess
over time I'll move more to SSD.


The plants aren't destroyed, just mushy and dirty. I just happened to be
there the other day. Wet, yes, but for the most part everything is
intact and accounted for. Anyway, the goings on didn't stop a bunch of
Thaksinites from getting all crazy near Lumpini and having a rally while
I was there -- and having been around the place more than a little over
the last decade I'd say that's a healthy indication that there is plenty
of (local, at least) motivation to get back on track making money again.


The market will change eventually, but it is extremely early in the game
to be proclaiming the actual end of spinning disk media. We're more than
a few years away from that, so the factories will get cleaned and put
back into operation as soon as possible. I didn't make it all the way to
see how things are in Ayutthaya, but my friends tell me folks had
already barriered, bildged and were cleaning some places around there.


Pictures of water look really neat in media, I think. The reality is
nearly everybody is finding a way around the mess to carry on with life
(the busses are even still running, though it looks comical somtimes in
50cm of water, but that's not *everywhere*, actually). Farmers will have
a bumper crop next year, in any event...

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Old 12-23-2011, 03:14 PM
Craig White
 
Default Buy an SSD now, or wait?

On Sat, 2011-12-24 at 00:07 +0900, 夜神 岩男 wrote:

> The plants aren't destroyed, just mushy and dirty. I just happened to be
> there the other day. Wet, yes, but for the most part everything is
> intact and accounted for. Anyway, the goings on didn't stop a bunch of
> Thaksinites from getting all crazy near Lumpini and having a rally while
> I was there -- and having been around the place more than a little over
> the last decade I'd say that's a healthy indication that there is plenty
> of (local, at least) motivation to get back on track making money again.
----
not disputing your characterization but aren't hard drives manufactured
inside 'clean rooms' where even small bits of dust are endemic?
----
> The market will change eventually, but it is extremely early in the game
> to be proclaiming the actual end of spinning disk media. We're more than
> a few years away from that, so the factories will get cleaned and put
> back into operation as soon as possible. I didn't make it all the way to
> see how things are in Ayutthaya, but my friends tell me folks had
> already barriered, bildged and were cleaning some places around there.
>
> Pictures of water look really neat in media, I think. The reality is
> nearly everybody is finding a way around the mess to carry on with life
> (the busses are even still running, though it looks comical somtimes in
> 50cm of water, but that's not *everywhere*, actually). Farmers will have
> a bumper crop next year, in any event...
----
very often floods leave toxins and move topsoil and the short term
effects of floods on farmland is not ever really predictable.

Craig


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Old 12-23-2011, 03:16 PM
Joe Zeff
 
Default Buy an SSD now, or wait?

On 12/23/2011 12:11 AM, 夜神 岩男 wrote:

If you're really in a donating mood, I hear Joe is in need of new
hardware and is living on a pension.


Thank you, but no. What I have will last a little longer, and I'll
probably be upgrading within the month, which is why I'm not that
worried about some of the minor issues I still have. Getting my desktop
to let me mount a usb as a regular user, or at least write to it is more
important, let's say, than getting the sound working again.


If any of you are looking to donate money somewhere, consider giving it
to the MS society. My sister has MS, and gets Avonex once a week.
Without subsidies, her bill for that would be about $1600/month. MS is
an "orphan disease," and never gets the funding it needs for research.

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Old 12-23-2011, 03:52 PM
Joe Zeff
 
Default Buy an SSD now, or wait?

On 12/23/2011 12:28 AM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:


Joe can get his own hardware (smile)


Damn straight I can. Or, if I need help, I can ask people I know
personally, like Joanne Dow (No, I'm not asking.) or Jerry Pournelle,
who always has excess equipment looking for a good home.

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Old 12-23-2011, 03:57 PM
Joe Zeff
 
Default Buy an SSD now, or wait?

On 12/23/2011 12:44 AM, Fernando Cassia wrote:

Also, give it time...



How much? We're still waiting for signs of major mutations from
Hiroshima and Nagasaki to show up.



Fukushima radiation mapped


Yeah. What they don't tell you, probably because the reporters don't
know it, is that much of the reason we're finding so much radiation is
because our detectors are a lot better than they were back in the days
of Chernobyl.

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Old 12-23-2011, 05:32 PM
Thomas Cameron
 
Default Buy an SSD now, or wait?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 12/22/2011 09:08 AM, Christopher Svanefalk wrote:
> I just wondered if anyone here has had any experience in using SSDs
> in general, and with Fedora in particular? I am thinking about an
> upgrade, but I am uncertain whether it is worth it to invest in an
> SSD now, or let the technology ripen for a few more years. I
> believe the SSD market will expand massively in the coming years,
> and with that, innovation and development in the field as well, so
> waiting seems more reasonable at this stage. Any thoughts?

I have 64GB SSDs in three laptops. I run RHEL6 and F16 on them.

Honestly, I do not see much of a difference. I am relatively certain
that benchmark utils would show me an improvement, but I was really
expecting a "WOW" moment when I installed. I had none.

To be fair, these are cheap-ish SSDs I got at my local Best Buy, but I
*really* expected more.
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Old 12-23-2011, 05:49 PM
jdow
 
Default Buy an SSD now, or wait?

On 2011/12/23 08:57, Joe Zeff wrote:

On 12/23/2011 12:44 AM, Fernando Cassia wrote:

Also, give it time...



How much? We're still waiting for signs of major mutations from Hiroshima and
Nagasaki to show up.


Fukushima radiation mapped


Yeah. What they don't tell you, probably because the reporters don't know it, is
that much of the reason we're finding so much radiation is because our detectors
are a lot better than they were back in the days of Chernobyl.


What they are also not teaching you about is the number of now ripe old people
who have been living in the exclusion (high radiation) zone after refusing to
move out. They seem to live quite normal and healthy lives as do the herds of
wildlife, horses and so forth.

{^_^}
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Old 12-23-2011, 09:24 PM
"Linda McLeod"
 
Default Buy an SSD now, or wait?

Re: Buy an SSD now, or wait?


My "gut feelings" are generally much more accurate than the science and
money world's facts.. A "gut feeling" tells me that the existing SSD's
will be liquidation antiques, in just a couple months, the moment the
tight-wad mfgr's release the new evolutions they've already got in
production.. just waiting to sell of as much old stock as they can, to
recoup losses... My people are waiting for the new stuff to come out...
But don't quote me on this.. it's just a hunch...




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Old 12-24-2011, 06:34 AM
Marko Vojinovic
 
Default Buy an SSD now, or wait?

On Friday 23 December 2011 10:49:57 jdow wrote:
> On 2011/12/23 08:57, Joe Zeff wrote:
> > On 12/23/2011 12:44 AM, Fernando Cassia wrote:
> >> Also, give it time...
> >
> > How much? We're still waiting for signs of major mutations from
> > Hiroshima and Nagasaki to show up.
> >
> >> Fukushima radiation mapped
> >
> > Yeah. What they don't tell you, probably because the reporters don't
> > know it, is that much of the reason we're finding so much radiation is
> > because our detectors are a lot better than they were back in the days
> > of Chernobyl.

That's not exactly true. The radiation is quite easy to measure, and there is
no need for increased sensitivity of the detectors. It is true that todays
technology of making those detectors is better than it was in the time of
Chernobyl, but the detectors used back then were equally precise for the
purpose of measuring the excess radiation. If a detector can measure properly
the natural background radiation, it's good enough for everything stronger as
well.

> What they are also not teaching you about is the number of now ripe old
> people who have been living in the exclusion (high radiation) zone after
> refusing to move out. They seem to live quite normal and healthy lives as
> do the herds of wildlife, horses and so forth.

Are talking about Fukushima or Chernobyl?

AFAIK, those are just old people who refused to leave the Chernobyl exclusion
zone (or rather kept coming back after being removed). But there are no young
people living there. There are no children there either (nor living nor being
born). And there probably shouldn't be any, for a long time to come. I am not
so sure how "normal and healthy" that can be.

I am sometimes quite surprised about people downplaying the seriousness of
nuclear pollution. The common argument that "nobody has died yet" is
irrelevant --- it takes a fairly large amount of exposure to actually kill a
human by radiation. However, it takes a rather smaller amount of radiation to
contaminate the human DNA to the point of problems in reproduction. In
addition, it's a matter of future planning --- the "hot spots" in the
contaminated zone are dangeorous now, and they are going to stay dangeorous
for a very very long time. If the hot spots are not cleaned out (which may be
impossible in some cases), the pollution in those areas is to be considered
*permanent* for all intents and purposes, on the scale of the lifetime of
human civilization. Noone can faithfully claim to be able to keep those areas
"off limits to population" for the next 10 000 years or so.

I'd say that uncontrolled nuclear pollution is the single most irresponsible
thing that humans could ever do to this planet (bar a global thermonuclear
war). Oil spills, CO2 emmision and other "environmental" stuff that people are
talking about these days are a complete childsplay compared to this.

Best, :-)
Marko




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Old 12-24-2011, 06:48 AM
Christopher Svanefalk
 
Default Buy an SSD now, or wait?

@Linda : I think that is about what I feel as well

On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 8:34 AM, Marko Vojinovic <vvmarko@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday 23 December 2011 10:49:57 jdow wrote:

> On 2011/12/23 08:57, Joe Zeff wrote:

> > On 12/23/2011 12:44 AM, Fernando Cassia wrote:

> >> Also, give it time...

> >

> > How much? We're still waiting for signs of major mutations from

> > Hiroshima and Nagasaki to show up.

> >

> >> Fukushima radiation mapped

> >

> > Yeah. What they don't tell you, probably because the reporters don't

> > know it, is that much of the reason we're finding so much radiation is

> > because our detectors are a lot better than they were back in the days

> > of Chernobyl.



That's not exactly true. The radiation is quite easy to measure, and there is

no need for increased sensitivity of the detectors. It is true that todays

technology of making those detectors is better than it was in the time of

Chernobyl, but the detectors used back then were equally precise for the

purpose of measuring the excess radiation. If a detector can measure properly

the natural background radiation, it's good enough for everything stronger as

well.



> What they are also not teaching you about is the number of now ripe old

> people who have been living in the exclusion (high radiation) zone after

> refusing to move out. They seem to live quite normal and healthy lives as

> do the herds of wildlife, horses and so forth.



Are talking about Fukushima or Chernobyl?



AFAIK, those are just old people who refused to leave the Chernobyl exclusion

zone (or rather kept coming back after being removed). But there are no young

people living there. There are no children there either (nor living nor being

born). And there probably shouldn't be any, for a long time to come. I am not

so sure how "normal and healthy" that can be.



I am sometimes quite surprised about people downplaying the seriousness of

nuclear pollution. The common argument that "nobody has died yet" is

irrelevant --- it takes a fairly large amount of exposure to actually kill a

human by radiation. However, it takes a rather smaller amount of radiation to

contaminate the human DNA to the point of problems in reproduction. In

addition, it's a matter of future planning --- the "hot spots" in the

contaminated zone are dangeorous now, and they are going to stay dangeorous

for a very very long time. If the hot spots are not cleaned out (which may be

impossible in some cases), the pollution in those areas is to be considered

*permanent* for all intents and purposes, on the scale of the lifetime of

human civilization. Noone can faithfully claim to be able to keep those areas

"off limits to population" for the next 10 000 years or so.



I'd say that uncontrolled nuclear pollution is the single most irresponsible

thing that humans could ever do to this planet (bar a global thermonuclear

war). Oil spills, CO2 emmision and other "environmental" stuff that people are

talking about these days are a complete childsplay compared to this.



Best, :-)

Marko









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