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Old 12-18-2011, 04:10 AM
g
 
Default fedora equivalent of recovery disk

On 12/18/2011 04:48 AM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
> I tried Plop and keep getting a message of "missing operating system".
-=-

hate to hear this.

<>
> Plus, Best Buy has told me that since the laptop isn't under warranty,
> they don't care what operating system is on it so long as they can log
> in to a "bare minimum environment" (as in give them a browser and they
> are happy).
-=-

that is might decent of them. is there someone there that understand
linux enough to use it. ;-)

as for what is installed. i would not worry about it unless it is something
of a private nature and no child porn. 8-D

main thing is that you do have a backup.

--

peace out.

tc.hago,

g
.

*please reply "plain text" only. "html text" are deleted*

****
in a free world without fences, who needs gates.
**
help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today.
**
to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it.
to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it.
**
The installation instructions stated to install Windows 2000 or better.
So I installed Linux.
**
learn linux:
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Old 12-18-2011, 04:10 AM
g
 
Default fedora equivalent of recovery disk

On 12/18/2011 04:49 AM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
> Purposely top-posting .... this came in right as I sent my abandon email
> ... let me read and reevaluate.
-=-

ok.


t-minus 1 hour 40 minutes and counting. ;-)

--

peace out.

tc.hago,

g
.

*please reply "plain text" only. "html text" are deleted*

****
in a free world without fences, who needs gates.
**
help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today.
**
to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it.
to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it.
**
The installation instructions stated to install Windows 2000 or better.
So I installed Linux.
**
learn linux:
'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html
'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/
'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html
'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/
****

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Old 12-18-2011, 04:31 AM
Paul Allen Newell
 
Default fedora equivalent of recovery disk

On 12/17/2011 9:10 PM, g wrote:


that is might decent of them. is there someone there that understand
linux enough to use it. ;-)

as for what is installed. i would not worry about it unless it is something
of a private nature and no child porn. 8-D

main thing is that you do have a backup.



I double checked and they say that, given the problem I am describing,
it is hardware and they just want some way to 1) let it cook if the
problem doesn't want to show right away and 2) some way to have web access.


That still doesn't mean that the geek who does the work won't have a
heart-attack when he sees it isn't the factory installed OS, but the
person I talked to gave me her name and promised that the order would
state that "different OS is okay".


There's no porn, child or otherwise, to have to worry about (I still
shake my head when I read stories about computer techs discovering it on
machines they've been asked to work on --- kind of a Henny Youngman
variant of "Arrest me -- please"). The issue is Maya Beta and my code
that uses it. NDA and all that. I've seen what happened when something
"accidentally leaked" before and its not in their or my interest to have
that happen.


Yes, I have a backup that I'll only know is good when I need it. That's
a "the check is in the mail" proposition as far as I am concerned
(smile). I am still going through your last email giving how-to's ...
and that states what I discovered regarding /boot/grub.conf (though you
managed to say what it is and all I could muster was a "huh?" and a
guess at what might be going on).


Thanks,
Paul

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Old 12-18-2011, 04:48 AM
Paul Allen Newell
 
Default fedora equivalent of recovery disk

On 12/17/2011 8:42 PM, g wrote:

ok, to deal with bios upgrade.

does you bios boot show screens or a graphic banner?

does bios have ability to show 'detail' screens during boot?

if so, boot in that mode to see what is there. some will give an option
of 'other' or something to that effect.

also, during detail boot, watch to see who wrote bios, and note the
number and year. you may need to go to them for new bios if new hp bios
does not have usb boot option.

hp may not note that later bios has usb boot, but if you pull latest for
your system, and install it, you may find usb is there.




g:

Wanted to get back on this while mulling / understanding the rest.

Its an HP bios that has that pseudo-gui with the limited use of the
arrow keys, return, f-keys, and esc. I went through every page looking
for anything that looked remotely usable as a solution. I didn't see
anything for showing detail during the boot (though I may not be
understanding what you mean by "detail"). Definitely no "other", its
just cd/dvd or hard drive as boot options. I got the date and revision
number of what I have and compared it against HP release notes for bios
updates. It looks like Phoenix who I have seen on a number of different
HP machine's bioses (? is there a plural of bios ?).


My fear is that I can't afford to screw up a bios update on this
machine. I've done one on another machine and it worked, but I was able
to leverage HP support when I did that. That being said, I have pulled
up the Phoenix related website and there may be info there (alot to dig
through). If I knew it had a boot-from-USB update, I'd consider doing
it. I'm just not ready to gamble on screwing up or getting a new problem
until I have the original issue resolved. You are allowed to assume that
you are hearing the sounds of chickens clucking on my end as you read this.


Thanks for your patience and continued help ... especially when I
admitted that I might be considering cutting my losses on this issue.


Paul


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Old 12-18-2011, 05:02 AM
g
 
Default fedora equivalent of recovery disk

On 12/18/2011 05:31 AM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
> On 12/17/2011 9:10 PM, g wrote:
>> that is might decent of them. is there someone there that understand
>> linux enough to use it. ;-)
>>
>> as for what is installed. i would not worry about it unless it is something
>> of a private nature and no child porn. 8-D
>>
>> main thing is that you do have a backup.
>>
>

> I double checked and they say that, given the problem I am describing,
> it is hardware and they just want some way to 1) let it cook if the
> problem doesn't want to show right away and 2) some way to have web access.
>


> That still doesn't mean that the geek who does the work won't have a
> heart-attack when he sees it isn't the factory installed OS, but the
> person I talked to gave me her name and promised that the order would
> state that "different OS is okay".
-=-

it is a sham/shame that stores do not have techs with more knowledge
than what they do. even tho most all systems are sold with oos, there
are still some that sell with linux.

therefore, give thought to set up a user home for tech to use and remove
everything from menu that he/she can cause problems with, including any
terminals.

iow, leave him/her with firefox, thunderbird under kde. i doubt they could
handle gnome or anything else. also, set up ".bash_profile" and ".bashrc"
to a minimum.

rename 'rm', 'kill', 'su', 'sudo', etc. then hope they do not know about
<ctrl+alt+fx>.


> There's no porn, child or otherwise, to have to worry about (I still
> shake my head when I read stories about computer techs discovering it on
> machines they've been asked to work on --- kind of a Henny Youngman
> variant of "Arrest me -- please").
-=-

such was very dumb, but then again, they were using oos.

> The issue is Maya Beta and my code that uses it. NDA and all that.
-=-

just rename and do not worry about it. because you have it backed up,
delete if you wish further safety.


> Yes, I have a backup that I'll only know is good when I need it.

if it was an rpm package, 'rpm -V' should work.


--

peace out.

tc.hago,

g
.

*please reply "plain text" only. "html text" are deleted*

****
in a free world without fences, who needs gates.
**
help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today.
**
to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it.
to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it.
**
The installation instructions stated to install Windows 2000 or better.
So I installed Linux.
**
learn linux:
'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html
'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/
'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html
'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/
****

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Old 12-18-2011, 05:21 AM
g
 
Default fedora equivalent of recovery disk

On 12/18/2011 05:48 AM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
<>

> Wanted to get back on this while mulling / understanding the rest.
>
> Its an HP bios that has that pseudo-gui with the limited use of the
> arrow keys, return, f-keys, and esc. I went through every page looking
> for anything that looked remotely usable as a solution. I didn't see
> anything for showing detail during the boot (though I may not be
> understanding what you mean by "detail"). Definitely no "other", its
> just cd/dvd or hard drive as boot options. I got the date and revision
> number of what I have and compared it against HP release notes for bios
> updates. It looks like Phoenix who I have seen on a number of different
> HP machine's bioses (? is there a plural of bios ?).
-=-

date of bios is what usually gives you an idea if it is usb boot enabled.

not sure when usb got around to being bootable, but i well imagine anything
in past 5 years should/would have that ability.

"bioses" is correct, even if your spell checker does not know it.

> My fear is that I can't afford to screw up a bios update on this
> machine.
-=-

for now, just used the 'chroot' procedure to check your files. and as
stated, anything that was an rpm package will/should verify.

> Thanks for your patience and continued help ... especially when I
> admitted that I might be considering cutting my losses on this issue.
-=-

not a problem. glad i can help. not much on tv tonight worth watching
anyway. 8-D


--

peace out.

tc.hago,

g
.

*please reply "plain text" only. "html text" are deleted*

****
in a free world without fences, who needs gates.
**
help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today.
**
to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it.
to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it.
**
The installation instructions stated to install Windows 2000 or better.
So I installed Linux.
**
learn linux:
'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html
'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/
'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html
'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/
****

--
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Old 12-18-2011, 05:31 AM
Paul Allen Newell
 
Default fedora equivalent of recovery disk

inline

On 12/17/2011 10:02 PM, g wrote:


-=-

it is a sham/shame that stores do not have techs with more knowledge
than what they do. even tho most all systems are sold with oos, there
are still some that sell with linux.

therefore, give thought to set up a user home for tech to use and remove
everything from menu that he/she can cause problems with, including any
terminals.


Already done ...


iow, leave him/her with firefox, thunderbird under kde. i doubt they could
handle gnome or anything else. also, set up ".bash_profile" and ".bashrc"
to a minimum.


They'll get thunderbird, but no email (if they want it, I'll have to
have a reason). Good point about gnome / kde ... I was assuming that
they wouldn't need a shell. I planned on leaving the rc files et al at
default f14.

rename 'rm', 'kill', 'su', 'sudo', etc. then hope they do not know about
<ctrl+alt+fx>.



Sudo should be controlled by sudoers file, right? So I only need to
worry about 'su' and if they know it and are able to crack my rich
password, then they know more than I do and its pointless to try to
protect. Renaming 'rm' and 'kill' are good ideas I hadn't thought of ...
they may be overkill but its not a bad idea for me to have a "you can't
hurt me" account for other reasons (like my niece wanting to play with
Linux and her boyfriend being "a video game major" who only knows
Windows but knows it very well ...).


There's one of those cryptic emoticons after the <ctrl+alt+fx> .. I have
to plead "not being hip" and making sure you aren't trying to tell me
some info I need (yes, I am old-school and making expressive statements
with a computer stopped at Christmas wreaths made of punch cards to the
amusement of folks of that era).



There's no porn, child or otherwise, to have to worry about (I still
shake my head when I read stories about computer techs discovering it on
machines they've been asked to work on --- kind of a Henny Youngman
variant of "Arrest me -- please").

-=-

such was very dumb, but then again, they were using oos.


Very dumb is being kind ...


The issue is Maya Beta and my code that uses it. NDA and all that.

-=-

just rename and do not worry about it. because you have it backed up,
delete if you wish further safety.


Point of honor says I remove to DVD and restore afterwards ... I owe it
to the folks I know developing Maya to act as though I was doing what
they would wish. They've been good to me and I know they'd want it removed.



Yes, I have a backup that I'll only know is good when I need it.

if it was an rpm package, 'rpm -V' should work.



I'll try that, thanks for the suggestion (though I can't tell you
whether what was stored is an rpm). Right now, I'm more interested in
understanding the original email that explain what to do regarding
getting boot info on. Plus I am trying to drill down the alternate
Phoenix website (per your suggestion) to see if I can verify whether a
bios upgrade would resolve that issue.


Thanks,
Paul

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Old 12-18-2011, 05:41 AM
"Michael D. Setzer II"
 
Default fedora equivalent of recovery disk

A couple of notes for this thread.

Some BIOS's will not show the option for booting from a USB
device if the device isn't plugged in when first booted. I have 2005
ASUS motherboards in my classroom that do this.

I've also seen some newer machines that will show the option with
the F12 boot function key is pressed.

Last note, with my g4l projects I show my students how I can wipe
a disks and then completely restore the system in about 40
minutes with a replacement disk or to the same disk.


+----------------------------------------------------------+
Michael D. Setzer II - Computer Science Instructor
Guam Community College Computer Center
mailto:mikes@kuentos.guam.net
mailto:msetzerii@gmail.com
http://www.guam.net/home/mikes
Guam - Where America's Day Begins
G4L Disk Imaging Project maintainer
http://sourceforge.net/projects/g4l/
+----------------------------------------------------------+

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu (Original)
Number of Seti Units Returned: 19,471
Processing time: 32 years, 290 days, 12 hours, 58 minutes
(Total Hours: 287,489)

BOINC@HOME CREDITS
SETI 11566931.767614 | EINSTEIN 7006187.589851
ROSETTA 4043213.178494 | ABC 9871642.315097

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Old 12-18-2011, 06:06 AM
Paul Allen Newell
 
Default fedora equivalent of recovery disk

On 12/17/2011 10:41 PM, Michael D. Setzer II wrote:

A couple of notes for this thread.

Some BIOS's will not show the option for booting from a USB
device if the device isn't plugged in when first booted. I have 2005
ASUS motherboards in my classroom that do this.

I've also seen some newer machines that will show the option with
the F12 boot function key is pressed.

Last note, with my g4l projects I show my students how I can wipe
a disks and then completely restore the system in about 40
minutes with a replacement disk or to the same disk.



Michael:

Thanks for adding your notes.

I made sure the USB is plugged in before powering on, so hopefully I
have covered that potential issue.


f12 key did nothing.

I haven't given up on the idea of trying G4L (as I mentioned in earlier
email). I admit I am considering bailing on the whole thing per my
earlier post this evening, but I am nagged by the thought that "its
gotta be me that isn't getting it" given the posts I get telling me that
its doable.


Paul
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Old 12-18-2011, 06:10 AM
g
 
Default fedora equivalent of recovery disk

On 12/18/2011 06:31 AM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
<>

> They'll get thunderbird, but no email (if they want it, I'll have to
> have a reason).
-=-

thunderbird is email. firefox is web browser. tho, if they are savvy,
linux file browsers can be used for web browser.


> Good point about gnome / kde ... I was assuming that they wouldn't need a
> shell. I planned on leaving the rc files et al at default f14.
-=-

thinking about that kde konqueror, besides web browser ability, <F4> will
open to a shell.

thinking about all this, i fear i may make you paranoid, which i do not
mean to do. so maybe this will help ease your mind;

]$ locate bin/konsole
/usr/bin/konsole

mv /usr/bin/konsole /usr/bin/konsole-hide

or what ever you want to name it.

using 'locate bin/filename' will find most all executables you may want
to hide. just be sure you do not hide too much.


> Sudo should be controlled by sudoers file, right?
-=-

correct. brain must be getting tired.


> Renaming 'rm' and 'kill' are good ideas I hadn't thought of ...

]$ locate bin/rm
/bin/rm
/bin/rmdir

]$ locate bin/kill
/bin/kill
/sbin/killall5
/usr/bin/kill
/usr/bin/killall


> they may be overkill but its not a bad idea for me to have a "you can't
> hurt me"
-=-

nothing is overkill when it come to 'cyoa' - 'cover your own ass'.

another thought, add a password for grub's boot up. then only way they can
do more than just service is if they know to use a 'rescue cd' or a 'live'.


> There's one of those cryptic emoticons after the <ctrl+alt+fx>

and ;-) are winks.


> Point of honor says I remove to DVD and restore afterwards ... I owe
> it to the folks I know developing Maya to act as though I was doing
> what they would wish. They've been good to me and I know they'd want
> it removed.
-=-

you have it on usb. dvd would be extra protection.


> I'll try that, thanks for the suggestion (though I can't tell you
> whether what was stored is an rpm).
-=-

all fedora is rpm.

rpm -q -l

will list all rpm packages.

yum list all

will show also.

again, run 'man rpm' and 'man yum' and search for what you want to know.
search is executed by entering "/" followed by what you want to search.
pressing <n> key for 'next'.



> Right now, I'm more interested in understanding the original email
> that explain what to do regarding getting boot info on.
-=-

specifically?


--

peace out.

tc.hago,

g
.

*please reply "plain text" only. "html text" are deleted*

****
in a free world without fences, who needs gates.
**
help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today.
**
to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it.
to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it.
**
The installation instructions stated to install Windows 2000 or better.
So I installed Linux.
**
learn linux:
'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html
'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/
'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html
'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/
****

--
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