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Old 12-01-2011, 06:49 PM
Bill Davidsen
 
Default GNOME2 support revisited

Now that MINT has both a GNOME2 port and ax extension (plugin, whatever) for
GNOME3 to make it usable without user retraining, will these features be
available in Fedora17, or has the move to kill GNOME2 become a holy war.

We support RHEL6 installations, and in addition to training time and application
(re)development costs, people complain that switching between GUI hurts
productivity, creates typos, etc, etc. People spend time whining about it, that
definitely hurts productivity.

--
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
"We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot
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Old 12-01-2011, 08:16 PM
"T.C. Hollingsworth"
 
Default GNOME2 support revisited

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com> wrote:
> Now that MINT has both a GNOME2 port and ax extension (plugin, whatever) for
> GNOME3 to make it usable without user retraining, will these features be
> available in Fedora17, or has the move to kill GNOME2 become a holy war.

There is nothing stopping anyone from packaging the Mint Gnome Shell
Extensions [1] or the MATE Desktop Environment [2] for Fedora. If you
are interested in doing so, see [3].

> We support RHEL6 installations, and in addition to training time and application
> (re)development costs, people complain that switching between GUI hurts
> productivity, creates typos, etc, etc. People spend time whining about it, that
> definitely hurts productivity.

Whether or not Red Hat includes either of these in RHEL7 is of course
Red Hat's decision, not the Fedora community's.

-T.C.

[1] https://github.com/linuxmint/MGSE
[2] https://github.com/perberos/Mate-Desktop-Environment/wiki
[3] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join_the_package_collection_maintainers
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Old 12-01-2011, 10:00 PM
Bill Davidsen
 
Default GNOME2 support revisited

T.C. Hollingsworth wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Bill Davidsen<davidsen@tmr.com> wrote:
>> Now that MINT has both a GNOME2 port and ax extension (plugin, whatever) for
>> GNOME3 to make it usable without user retraining, will these features be
>> available in Fedora17, or has the move to kill GNOME2 become a holy war.
>
> There is nothing stopping anyone from packaging the Mint Gnome Shell
> Extensions [1] or the MATE Desktop Environment [2] for Fedora. If you
> are interested in doing so, see [3].
>
>> We support RHEL6 installations, and in addition to training time and application
>> (re)development costs, people complain that switching between GUI hurts
>> productivity, creates typos, etc, etc. People spend time whining about it, that
>> definitely hurts productivity.
>
> Whether or not Red Hat includes either of these in RHEL7 is of course
> Red Hat's decision, not the Fedora community's.
>
What did I say which in any way referenced RHEL7? We are running Fedora on our
support machines (not the servers) and my question was pretty specific as to
FC17 being the issue, so we can get off FC14.

I take it that "feel free to do it yourself" is a polite way of saying no, I
can't imagine anyone here doing the port with no assurance that it would be
accepted.

Thanks for the info.
> -T.C.
>
> [1] https://github.com/linuxmint/MGSE
> [2] https://github.com/perberos/Mate-Desktop-Environment/wiki
> [3] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join_the_package_collection_maintainers


--
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
"We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot

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Old 12-01-2011, 10:58 PM
"T.C. Hollingsworth"
 
Default GNOME2 support revisited

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com> wrote:
> What did I say which in any way referenced RHEL7? We are running Fedora on our
> support machines (not the servers) and my question was pretty specific as to
> FC17 being the issue, so we can get off FC14.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about RHEL in that paragraph.

> I take it that "feel free to do it yourself" is a polite way of saying no, I
> can't imagine anyone here doing the port with no assurance that it would be
> accepted.

No, it's the polite way of saying "feel free to do it yourself, as
that's the only way anything gets done in a volunteer project".

The only two issues I'm aware of with packaging a GNOME 2 fork for Fedora are:
- Infringement of GNOME Foundation trademarks.
- Compatibility with the GNOME 3 stack in Fedora. (ensuring that it
doesn't trample on it, etc.)

MATE appears to take care of both of those issues, though admittedly I
haven't looked at it thoroughly.

The only things required to get something into Fedora are:

- a suitable RPM package pursuant to the Packaging Guidelines [1]
This should be really easy, as the F14 RPMs should be able to be used
as a starting point with minimal changes (changing the name, tarball
location, etc.).

- a packager willing to do the work to rename and convert the old
GNOME 2 RPMS to FATE and submit them for inclusion

- a sponsor willing to review it and assist the new maintainer
Given the amount of griping GNOME 3 has evoked on this and other
Fedora lists, it shouldn't be difficult to find others interested in
helping with a well-maintained GNOME 2 fork.

MGSEs would be even easier as there are already lots of GNOME Shell
extensions in the repo, and they're just bits of Javascript that
should be simple to package.

-T.C.
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Old 12-02-2011, 01:24 AM
Genes MailLists
 
Default GNOME2 support revisited

> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com> wrote:
>> What did I say which in any way referenced RHEL7? We are running Fedora on our
>> support machines (not the servers) and my question was pretty specific as to
>> FC17 being the issue, so we can get off FC14.
>

Seems you have some choices:

(i) You (or perhaps someone else) packages the Mint work to fedora

(ii) switch to mint (avoid the repackaging issue)

(iii) stay w fedora and switch DE's to something else (XFCE or KDE)

(iv) find yet another distro that matches your needs.


Seems to me (ii) and (iii) are by far the easiest ... either of the
alternate desktops should not be too big a burden to switch over to ...

That said, (iii) seems less of a burdon than (ii) ...

gene
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Old 12-02-2011, 07:42 AM
Frank Murphy
 
Default GNOME2 support revisited

On 01/12/11 19:49, Bill Davidsen wrote:
> Now that MINT has both a GNOME2 port and ax extension (plugin, whatever) for
> GNOME3 to make it usable without user retraining, will these features be
> available in Fedora17, or has the move to kill GNOME2 become a holy war.

I don't believe the Fedora maintainers, will do that.
Without more support from community devs,
who would do it as a side project.

>
> We support RHEL6 installations, and in addition to training time and application
> (re)development costs, people complain that switching between GUI hurts
> productivity, creates typos, etc, etc. People spend time whining about it, that
> definitely hurts productivity.
>

It depends on RH, and how many of their enterprise subscribers feel.
Make your feelings known to them?


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Regards,

Frank Murphy
UTF_8 Encoded
Friend of fedoraproject.org
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Old 12-02-2011, 07:53 AM
Olav Vitters
 
Default GNOME2 support revisited

On Thu, Dec 01, 2011 at 02:49:30PM -0500, Bill Davidsen wrote:
> Now that MINT has both a GNOME2 port and ax extension (plugin, whatever) for
> GNOME3 to make it usable without user retraining, will these features be
> available in Fedora17, or has the move to kill GNOME2 become a holy war.

Suggest to ask Mint if they can put their extension on
https://extensions.gnome.org/. Then it is available to everyone who has
GNOME 3.2 or newer.

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Olav
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Old 12-03-2011, 05:29 PM
Bill Davidsen
 
Default GNOME2 support revisited

Olav Vitters wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 01, 2011 at 02:49:30PM -0500, Bill Davidsen wrote:
>> Now that MINT has both a GNOME2 port and ax extension (plugin, whatever) for
>> GNOME3 to make it usable without user retraining, will these features be
>> available in Fedora17, or has the move to kill GNOME2 become a holy war.
>
> Suggest to ask Mint if they can put their extension on
> https://extensions.gnome.org/. Then it is available to everyone who has
> GNOME 3.2 or newer.
>
That's a good idea, I think it represents a minimal effort to ask, and would be
a start. But I think the GNOME2 stack is desirable, there's a lot of stuff
depending on that mindset.

--
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
"We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot
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Old 12-03-2011, 06:28 PM
Olav Vitters
 
Default GNOME2 support revisited

On Sat, Dec 03, 2011 at 01:29:49PM -0500, Bill Davidsen wrote:
> That's a good idea, I think it represents a minimal effort to ask, and would be
> a start. But I think the GNOME2 stack is desirable, there's a lot of stuff
> depending on that mindset.

Not sure why you bring up GNOME 2 to me, there is MATE. To me, it seems
like a dead end, depending on where they stay. Still using bonobo,
gconf, etc..

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Olav
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