Top posting in a meandeing thread was: Fedora - time to blink
 

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On 11/27/2011 06:28 PM, jdow wrote:
> On 2011/11/27 15:42, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
>> Well, considering that top posting | But side posting is more fun
> > is strongly discourages in the | and by far a more interesting
>> list guidelines, I would consider | challenge, isn't it?
> > it more then a point of view. |
>> Different lists have different | {O,o} Ack! Pblpbltlt!
> > guidelines, and it is only polite to |
>> follow the list guidelines. |
>>
>> Mikkel
>>
Well, my mail client does not do side posting well. I need one that
does columns. That way, both parts of the conversation would be
formatted nicely.

If I really wanted to side post, I guess I could work on a
Thunderbird plugin that supported it.

I am glad you are still around to brighten up my day.

Mikkel
- --
I haven't lost my mind. It's around here...somewhere.
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Top posting in a meandeing thread was: Fedora - time to blink
 

> |* But side posting is more fun = It
> |* and by far a more interesting = certainly
> |* challenge, isn't it? = is
> | = more
> |* {O,o}***Ack! = challenging
> > -- = with
= different
= mailers
= and
= you
c
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R
e
g
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s,


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/ _ __ | |_ ___ _ __ (_) ___
/ _ | '_ | __/ _ | '_ | |/ _
/ ___ | | | | || (_) | | | | | (_) |
/_/ \_\_| |_|\__\___/|_| |_|_|\___/


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Top posting in a meandeing thread was: Fedora - time to blink
 

On Sun, 2011-11-27 at 20:00 +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
> Am 27.11.2011 19:32, schrieb Maurizio Marini:
> > On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:13:53 +0000
> > Frank Murphy <frankly3d@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> That's what top-posting brings. (Not JZ)
> >> Let's see the rant's now.
> >
> > A. Because people read from top to bottom.
> > Q. Why should I not top post?
> > A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> > A: Top-posting.
> > Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
>
> but only in mailing-lists and there only because not all are doing this
>
> yes i and peopole are reading from top to bottom
> and if i follow a conversation i normally know the postings before
> so i need only to read the answers
>
> with top-posting i would not have to scroll or ONLY if i have
> not read the messages before and even if i do not know the whole
> thread i must only ONE TIME scroll down and read from bottom to
> top, but only once
>
> so the only real problem is that so many people do not top-posting
> and that they which do not realize if the thread was with answers
> below the question and suddenly start mixing what is really bad
> because you have a question and some answers below and some in top of
>
> in business-communication top posting and TOFU is normally
> because with TOFU you need only the last mail of a conversation
> and with the top-posting you need not to scroll and see the whole
> answer in the preview after select a message
>
> so this is all a point of view
>
But business email is not normally archived for later use. It is
essentially one time communications with a few exceptions. And this
difference is essential between a mailing list and simple email
exchanges.
Just my 2 cents worth, and that ain't much these days.


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Top posting in a meandeing thread was: Fedora - time to blink
 

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 00:12:14 -0800
les <hlhowell@pacbell.net> wrote:
I love this mlist more and more!
all started with Fedora - time to blink and now we are behind this "querelle"
that is older than internet ;)
you are amazing, guys :)
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Top posting in a meandeing thread was: Fedora - time to blink
 

Am 28.11.2011 09:12, schrieb les:
> On Sun, 2011-11-27 at 20:00 +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:
>> in business-communication top posting and TOFU is normally
>> because with TOFU you need only the last mail of a conversation
>> and with the top-posting you need not to scroll and see the whole
>> answer in the preview after select a message
>>
>> so this is all a point of view
>>
> But business email is not normally archived for later use. It is
> essentially one time communications with a few exceptions. And this
> difference is essential between a mailing list and simple email
> exchanges.
> Just my 2 cents worth, and that ain't much these days

where do you work that you are allowed to delete business-communication? :-)



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Top posting in a meandeing thread was: Fedora - time to blink
 

Also consider that with several contributors commenting on the same
post it gets boring scrolling down each one through the same
information

Roger




in business-communication top posting and TOFU is normally
because with TOFU you need only the last mail of a conversation
and with the top-posting you need not to scroll and see the whole
answer in the preview after select a message

so this is all a point of view



But business email is not normally archived for later use. It is
essentially one time communications with a few exceptions. And this
difference is essential between a mailing list and simple email
exchanges.
Just my 2 cents worth, and that ain't much these days



where do you work that you are allowed to delete business-communication? :-)














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Top posting in a meandeing thread was: Fedora - time to blink
 

On Mon, 2011-11-28 at 21:49 +1100, Roger wrote:
> Also consider that with several contributors commenting on the same
> post
> it gets boring scrolling down each one through the same information

It gets even more boring when posters can't be bothered to trim the
stuff they're quoting. If quotes were limited to only material being
directly commented on, the scrolling issue would mostly go away.

Two additional comments on this meme:

1) Business mail top-posts and quotes everything because that's the way
Outlook works and to a significant percentage of business users
"Outlook"and "Email" are synonyms. The single advantage to doing it this
way is that you can shovel over an entire conversation to a co-worker in
one Forward, and they get to see the whole context. Of course a properly
managed archiving system wouldn't need that, but then you'd have to have
competent system administrators, which apparently is too much to ask.

2) This list, and others under the Fedora banner, has a set of
Guidelines, referenced in the footer of *every single message*. How many
list members have read them? How many have noticed
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines#If_You_Are_Replying_to_a_M essage where it says:

Place each part of your reply after the text it addresses (i.e.,
NO Top-Posting, please see "Wikipedia - Top Posting" and links
therein for more on this).

Now of course these are stated as "guidelines", because no-one is going
to ban you from the list except in extreme cases, but they still have
the backing of this community. When someone decides to ignore them, it
says a lot about what they think of the rest of us (and for my part that
plays a part in determining whether I want to help them with their
problem.) If people think the Guidelines need updating, make a proposal
to change them and we can discuss it, don't just pretend they don't
exist.

poc

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Top posting in a meandeing thread was: Fedora - time to blink
 

Am 28.11.2011 12:47, schrieb Patrick O'Callaghan:
> 1) Business mail top-posts and quotes everything because that's the way
> Outlook works and to a significant percentage of business users
> "Outlook"and "Email" are synonyms. The single advantage to doing it this
> way is that you can shovel over an entire conversation to a co-worker in
> one Forward, and they get to see the whole context. Of course a properly
> managed archiving system wouldn't need that, but then you'd have to have
> competent system administrators, which apparently is too much to ask.

it may be off-topic but "you'd have to have competent system administrators"
is somehow arrogant - do YOU pay the hardware/configuration/adminstration of
a archiving system which is NOT needed?

even if you have one - you will grant access to partners involved in your
business communication? you won't and you must not!



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Top posting in a meandeing thread was: Fedora - time to blink
 

On Mon, 2011-11-28 at 21:49 +1100, Roger wrote:
> Also consider that with several contributors commenting on the same
> post it gets boring scrolling down each one through the same
> information
> Roger

That's why you edit. Whatever posting style you use, you need to edit.
You can't keep every single prior post in a thread in the message.
Sure, that works for three emails going back and forth on a business
deal, it doesn't for hundreds of emails, with very long threads, on a
list server.

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read messages from the public lists.



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Top posting in a meandeing thread was: Fedora - time to blink
 

Sorry POC for inserting here.....

I just want to congratulate all the participants in this thread and
resulting tangents. You've manged to hit at least 3 most often
recurring themes.

<sarcasm>

A. GNOME 3 is the most hated desktop since the introduction of KDE 4.

B. Licensing in Fedora. Or: Why can't Fedora be more like Ubuntu?

C. Mailing list guidelines. Or: Guidelines, they're for other people.

</sarcasm>
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