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Old 11-27-2011, 04:13 PM
Frank Murphy
 
Default Top posting in a meandeing thread was: Fedora - time to blink

On 27/11/11 17:08, Joe Zeff wrote:

>> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Frank Murphy<frankly3d@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Possibly so someone can say
>>>>> "It's not bloated, you installed all that stuff"
>
> Please get your attributions right. There's nothing of mine quoted here.

That's what top-posting brings. (Not JZ)
Let's see the rant's now.

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Frank Murphy
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Old 11-27-2011, 05:32 PM
Maurizio Marini
 
Default Top posting in a meandeing thread was: Fedora - time to blink

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:13:53 +0000
Frank Murphy <frankly3d@gmail.com> wrote:

> That's what top-posting brings. (Not JZ)
> Let's see the rant's now.

A. Because people read from top to bottom.
Q. Why should I not top post?
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

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Old 11-27-2011, 06:00 PM
Reindl Harald
 
Default Top posting in a meandeing thread was: Fedora - time to blink

Am 27.11.2011 19:32, schrieb Maurizio Marini:
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:13:53 +0000
> Frank Murphy <frankly3d@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That's what top-posting brings. (Not JZ)
>> Let's see the rant's now.
>
> A. Because people read from top to bottom.
> Q. Why should I not top post?
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> A: Top-posting.
> Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

but only in mailing-lists and there only because not all are doing this

yes i and peopole are reading from top to bottom
and if i follow a conversation i normally know the postings before
so i need only to read the answers

with top-posting i would not have to scroll or ONLY if i have
not read the messages before and even if i do not know the whole
thread i must only ONE TIME scroll down and read from bottom to
top, but only once

so the only real problem is that so many people do not top-posting
and that they which do not realize if the thread was with answers
below the question and suddenly start mixing what is really bad
because you have a question and some answers below and some in top of

in business-communication top posting and TOFU is normally
because with TOFU you need only the last mail of a conversation
and with the top-posting you need not to scroll and see the whole
answer in the preview after select a message

so this is all a point of view

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Old 11-27-2011, 06:14 PM
Ranjan Maitra
 
Default Top posting in a meandeing thread was: Fedora - time to blink

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 13:00:20 -0600 Reindl Harald
<h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:

>
>
> Am 27.11.2011 19:32, schrieb Maurizio Marini:
> > On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:13:53 +0000
> > Frank Murphy <frankly3d@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> That's what top-posting brings. (Not JZ)
> >> Let's see the rant's now.
> >
> > A. Because people read from top to bottom.
> > Q. Why should I not top post?
> > A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> > A: Top-posting.
> > Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
>
> but only in mailing-lists and there only because not all are doing this
>
> yes i and peopole are reading from top to bottom
> and if i follow a conversation i normally know the postings before
> so i need only to read the answers
>
> with top-posting i would not have to scroll or ONLY if i have
> not read the messages before and even if i do not know the whole
> thread i must only ONE TIME scroll down and read from bottom to
> top, but only once
>
> so the only real problem is that so many people do not top-posting
> and that they which do not realize if the thread was with answers
> below the question and suddenly start mixing what is really bad
> because you have a question and some answers below and some in top of
>
> in business-communication top posting and TOFU is normally
> because with TOFU you need only the last mail of a conversation
> and with the top-posting you need not to scroll and see the whole
> answer in the preview after select a message
>
> so this is all a point of view
>

Actually, this has always been a amusing but major source of friction
from supposed net guardian angels and those that (in their words) lack
netiquette. From the way I see it, the fundamental disagreement stems
from whether e-mail should be considered to be a form of letter-writing
(in which case top-posting makes a lot of sense) or a substitute for
conversation (in which case it is not). But, as you say, it is a point
of view.

In any case, one should always be careful against wrongful attribution.

Best wishes,
Ranjan
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Old 11-27-2011, 06:48 PM
David
 
Default Top posting in a meandeing thread was: Fedora - time to blink

On 11/27/2011 12:13 PM, Frank Murphy wrote:
> On 27/11/11 17:08, Joe Zeff wrote:
>
>>> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Frank Murphy<frankly3d@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Possibly so someone can say
>>>>>> "It's not bloated, you installed all that stuff"
>>
>> Please get your attributions right. There's nothing of mine quoted here.
>
> That's what top-posting brings. (Not JZ)
> Let's see the rant's now.
>


Dam*! Not I have to find my asbestos suit and tinfoil hat.

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Old 11-27-2011, 07:03 PM
Marko Vojinovic
 
Default Top posting in a meandeing thread was: Fedora - time to blink

On Sunday 27 November 2011 20:00:20 Reindl Harald wrote:
> Am 27.11.2011 19:32, schrieb Maurizio Marini:
> > A. Because people read from top to bottom.
> > Q. Why should I not top post?
> > A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> > A: Top-posting.
> > Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
>
> but only in mailing-lists and there only because not all are doing this
>
> yes i and peopole are reading from top to bottom
> and if i follow a conversation i normally know the postings before
> so i need only to read the answers

I envy you for your memory, if you are really able to remember every line of
conversation in all threads you are following. I typically follow 10-20
threads on various mailing lists simultaneously, and it is quite impossible
for me to remember everything everyone said. So it is often useful to skim
through the previous material, to refresh the topic in my mind and then read
the latest post.

If you are following only two or three threads simultaneously, I agree this
might not be important.

> with top-posting i would not have to scroll or ONLY if i have
> not read the messages before and even if i do not know the whole
> thread i must only ONE TIME scroll down and read from bottom to
> top, but only once

And in these cases, it is more natural to read from top to bottom than vice
versa.

> so the only real problem is that so many people do not top-posting
> and that they which do not realize if the thread was with answers
> below the question and suddenly start mixing what is really bad
> because you have a question and some answers below and some in top of

Yes, this is the worst case scenario...

> in business-communication top posting and TOFU is normally
> because with TOFU you need only the last mail of a conversation
> and with the top-posting you need not to scroll and see the whole
> answer in the preview after select a message

Business communications are typically private, and not archived for public
visibility and reference on the web, as mailing lists are. When I do an
archive search for some previous topic, it is very annoying to read the thread
upside-down. In addition, business communications are mainly done between two
parties, unlike mailing list threads which typically have multiple
participants and subthreads, where top-posting quotation of content is worse
than useless.

Some time ago I proposed to create a mail filter, top2bottom, which would
reshuffle message text into top/bottom-posting style, as desired by the user. I
even wrote some proof-of-concept C code which does that. Unfortunately, it
didn't get much traction, and also I didn't have enough time to work on it
more seriously.

Maybe one day I'll sit down and do it properly, and hopefully it will help
eliminate these kind of discussions from mailing lists altogether. ;-)

Best, :-)
Marko


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Old 11-27-2011, 10:42 PM
"Mikkel L. Ellertson"
 
Default Top posting in a meandeing thread was: Fedora - time to blink

On 11/27/2011 01:00 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
>
> Am 27.11.2011 19:32, schrieb Maurizio Marini:
>>
>> A. Because people read from top to bottom.
>> Q. Why should I not top post?
>> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
>> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
>> A: Top-posting.
>> Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
>
> but only in mailing-lists and there only because not all are doing this
>
> yes i and peopole are reading from top to bottom
> and if i follow a conversation i normally know the postings before
> so i need only to read the answers
>
> with top-posting i would not have to scroll or ONLY if i have
> not read the messages before and even if i do not know the whole
> thread i must only ONE TIME scroll down and read from bottom to
> top, but only once
>
> so the only real problem is that so many people do not top-posting
> and that they which do not realize if the thread was with answers
> below the question and suddenly start mixing what is really bad
> because you have a question and some answers below and some in top of
>
> in business-communication top posting and TOFU is normally
> because with TOFU you need only the last mail of a conversation
> and with the top-posting you need not to scroll and see the whole
> answer in the preview after select a message
>
> so this is all a point of view
>
Well, considering that top posting is strongly discourages in the
list guidelines, I would consider it more then a point of view.
Different lists have different guidelines, and it is only polite to
follow the list guidelines.

Mikkel
--

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons,
for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!

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Old 11-27-2011, 11:28 PM
jdow
 
Default Top posting in a meandeing thread was: Fedora - time to blink

On 2011/11/27 15:42, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> On 11/27/2011 01:00 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>
>>
>> Am 27.11.2011 19:32, schrieb Maurizio Marini:
>>>
>>> A. Because people read from top to bottom.
>>> Q. Why should I not top post?
>>> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
>>> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
>>> A: Top-posting.
>>> Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
>>
>> but only in mailing-lists and there only because not all are doing this
>>
>> yes i and peopole are reading from top to bottom
>> and if i follow a conversation i normally know the postings before
>> so i need only to read the answers
>>
>> with top-posting i would not have to scroll or ONLY if i have
>> not read the messages before and even if i do not know the whole
>> thread i must only ONE TIME scroll down and read from bottom to
>> top, but only once
>>
>> so the only real problem is that so many people do not top-posting
>> and that they which do not realize if the thread was with answers
>> below the question and suddenly start mixing what is really bad
>> because you have a question and some answers below and some in top of
>>
>> in business-communication top posting and TOFU is normally
>> because with TOFU you need only the last mail of a conversation
>> and with the top-posting you need not to scroll and see the whole
>> answer in the preview after select a message
>>
>> so this is all a point of view
>>
> Well, considering that top posting | But side posting is more fun
> is strongly discourages in the | and by far a more interesting
> list guidelines, I would consider | challenge, isn't it?
> it more then a point of view. |
> Different lists have different | {O,o} Ack! Pblpbltlt!
> guidelines, and it is only polite to |
> follow the list guidelines. |
>
> Mikkel
>
>
>
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