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Old 11-03-2011, 06:33 AM
Linux Tyro
 
Default Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:45 AM, T.C. Hollingsworth <tchollingsworth@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I am really thankful to all of you, Marko Vojinovic, Tim and all the members for such great suggestions.


However, it was a coincidence that I have some Ubuntu LTS CD and just installed it. Everything was okay and I have only some small issues. Well I aslo had an CD of openSUSE 11.4, which I was installing (trying to). I had some issues in it. I am writing these issues here, please elucidate it.


[FEDORA CORE IS GETTING DOWNLOADING as you suggested, I am going to give live CDs a chance] But before I could successfully Install Fedora (after downloading), I just clear my some doubts I had with the installation of openSUSE which are as follows:


Thanks and Regards.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________


I installed Unbuntu LTS (had its CD). But I have planned to go with .rpm side (whatever be the reasons, Fedora is under downloading process). Well, right now I am having one CD of openSUSE 11.4 too. I just want to see how openSUSE looks, before again installing Fedora. A couple of things, confusing me a lot here are as follows. I am going step by step what I did and what exactly I found in this operation of installing openSUSE 11.4.


Inserted the CD in the CD-ROM (yes it was the first boot option). Everything was going on smooth but after some time I came to the windows where I have to do something regarding 'partitioning'. The CD, by default showed with the following output. It said me as followed:

*__________________________________

-Delete partition /dev/sda5 (111.25 GB)
-Create root volume /dev/sda6 (20.00 GB) with ext4
-Create volume /dev/sda6 (91.25 GB) for /home with ext4
-Use /dev/sda5 as swap

*-Set mount point of /dev/sda1 to /widows/c
*__________________________________

I continued with this (the above) default scheme which it took and didn't click to 'edit the partition'. Finally arrived at the page where the summary of what the distro is going to do in finally (for installation). At this page/step was written in red, the following message:

*__________________________________

"The boot loader is installed on a partition that doesn't lie entirely below 128 GB. The system might not boot is BIOS support only lba24 (result is error 18 during install grub MBR)."

*__________________________________

What does it ('the installation process') want to say?

Further, I was confused with what partitions to delete with. So I am giving here that table also (which came at the same step on which above error came). But before I give, I just want to tell that my requirement was to install openSUSE only in the space in which current Ubuntu is residing and making Windows XP remain intact (only my sis uses it).


Now the partition table (which came BY DEFAULT, at the step at which the above error (in red) came) was as follows:
*__________________________________

/dev/sda**** 232.89 GB

/dev/sda1** 116.88 GB********** HPFS/NTFS******* NTFS***** /windows/c


/dev/sda1** 116.01 GB********** Extended

/dev/sad5** 4.75**** GB********** Linux swap******* Swap**** Swap

/dev/sda6** 20.00** GB*** F**** Linux native***** Ext4****** /

/dev/sda7** 91.25** GB*** F**** Linux native***** Ext4****** /home

*__________________________________

In this partition table,

First line: Well, /dev/sda is the whole of hard disk and its capacity is 232.89 GB. Its well understood. But when I bought, the vendor told me the capacity of 250 GB, so remaining (250-232.89) GB=17.11 GB are where, I don't know.


Second line: /dev/sda1 is the Windows partition, and I guess it is taking number '1' since it is the default boot option...? It has been formated by NTFS file system as shown clearly.

Third line: /dev/sda1 extended? Is it windows only? If yes, why its size is 116.01 GB? and not 116.88 GB (which is in the line just above it). What does it mean?


Fourth line: /dev/sda5 Okay Linux swap, understood and it is separate partition. I don't know where /dev/sda2, /dev/sda3, /dev/sda4 have gone?? From '1' it has jumped to -->> '5'...!

Fifth line: /dev/sda6 is the root, since at the last symbol '/' is coming and again its a separate partition. But why it is calling Linux native? And why there is coming a 'F' written just after 20.00 GB, what is it representing?


Sixth line: /dev/sda7 ok its /home (written at the last), but it is also 'Linux native' and again that 'F'.

On the same stage (on which the partition table and the error in red was being displayed), I had one more thing interesting, it is as follows. It was under the heading 'Change Location':-

*__________________________________

-Boot from MBR is disabled (enable)
-Boot from "/" partition is disabled (enable)
*__________________________________

I don't know WHY to enable any one of the above options or to enable both or to not touch............? And what does they mean (the above options).


After I got this all, I just ABORTED the installation thinking it could lead to system crash. I logged in to the Ubuntu and opened the terminal and typed-in the command ('sudo fdisk -l') and got the output:

*__________________________________

myfamily@myfamily-desktop:~$ sudo fdisk -l

Disk /dev/sda: 250.1 GB, 250059350016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 30401 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

*Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0xfedcfedc

** Device Boot***** Start******** End***** Blocks************ Id***** System

*/dev/sda1** *********** 1********* 15258** 122553318+** 7****** HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sda2********** 15258****** 30402** 121644033**** 5****** Extended
/dev/sda5********** 15258****** 29781** 116658176*** 83***** Linux

*/dev/sda6********** 29781****** 30402**** 4984832**** 82****** Linux swap / Solaris
*__________________________________

Now when I have to install openSUSE (before I actually install Fedora), I just want to install it over the space of Ubuntu. I should, therefore, in what way install it? I just want to have a separate '/home' and a separate '/' (root). From the just above command ('sudo fdisk -l'), I don't guess my paritions are separate for '/home' and '/' (root)......??


If any one can elaborate in detail all this above mentioned points, I would be really be thankful to. IF anything better could be done, please elucidate regarding the partitioning given above.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________

--
THX

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Old 11-03-2011, 10:44 AM
Marko Vojinovic
 
Default Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

On Thursday 03 November 2011 07:33:33 Linux Tyro wrote:
> Inserted the CD in the CD-ROM (yes it was the first boot option).
> Everything was going on smooth but after some time I came to the windows
> where I have to do something regarding 'partitioning'. The CD, by default
> showed with the following output. It said me as followed:
> __________________________________
>
> -Delete partition /dev/sda5 (111.25 GB)
> -Create root volume /dev/sda6 (20.00 GB) with ext4
> -Create volume /dev/sda6 (91.25 GB) for /home with ext4
> -Use /dev/sda5 as swap
> -Set mount point of /dev/sda1 to /widows/c
> __________________________________

SuSE is telling you here what it is about to do. It wants to delete the big
Ubutu partition (/dev/sda5), and replace it with two partitions, one
(/dev/sda6) for / and the other (/dev/sda7, I believe you mistyped the "6"
above) for /home, all for SuSE (deleting Ubutnu in the process). In addition,
it intends to recreate /dev/sda5 to use it as the swap partition, and to
create a mount point for the Windows partition (/dev/sda1), so that you can
access your Windows files in the directory /windows/c from within SuSE.

I am not sure whether you retyped the /dev/sdaX numbers correctly, the /home
entry is probably /dev/sda7.

There is nothing wrong with this setup, and IMHO having separate / and /home
is better than what Ubuntu installed (just a single big / and no separate
/home). I recommend that you accept this setup.

> I continued with this (the above) default scheme which it took and didn't
> click to 'edit the partition'. Finally arrived at the page where the
> summary of what the distro is going to do in finally (for installation). At
> this page/step was written in red, the following message:
> __________________________________
>
> "The boot loader is installed on a partition that doesn't lie entirely
> below 128 GB. The system might not boot is BIOS support only lba24 (result
> is error 18 during install grub MBR)."
> __________________________________
>
> What does it ('the installation process') want to say?

Ok, you need to learn a bit or two about booting a PC. Dual-booting is a
nontrivial thing to setup, so you need to be aware of what is actually going
on inside.

You want to read about that on

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booting#Boot_sequence_on_standard_PC_.28IBM-
PC_compatible.29

When you turn on a computer, the very first thing that happens is that the
motherboard oscillator clock stats ticking. This invokes a piece of hardware
that sends a reset signal to the processor. The processor than resets itself
and starts executing commands from a fixed predetermined position in memory.
This is where the bios resides.

The bios gets loaded, does a bunch of initialization and self-testing stuff,
and eventually looks up the MBR (master boot record) of your hard disk, to
load an operating system.

The MBR is located at the very beginning of the hard drive, and is 512 bytes
long. It contains the partition table of the disk, and a "stage 1" bootloader
--- a small piece of code which knows "where to look" for an operating system
to load. Now comes the catch --- this piece of code is very size-constrained,
so it relies on bios routines to access the remainder of the hard disk. The
bios, however, may be old, and not have built-in support to access the whole
space of the 250 GB hard drive. Or maybe it can. It depends on your particular
bios, and the SuSE installation cannot check whether bios is capable of this
or not.

In the end, you get the warning that the "stage 2" bootloader, which is to be
positioned at the beginning of the /dev/sda6 partition, might be out of reach
of bios. If it is, your system would fail to boot the SuSE installation.
Windows would be bootable no problem, because its "stage2" bootloader is at
the beginning of the /dev/sda1, which is on the "near end" of the hard drive,
and thus certainly within the reach of bios.

Of course, once the OS gets booted, it can see the whole disk with no
problems, because the OS kernel (both the Windows and Linux one) is much more
powerful than the bios, and does not rely on the bios to access the disk.

You have two options:

(1) To look up the docs/specifications of your bios version on the Internet,
and read wheter or not it supports large hard drives (and how large).
(2) To experiment --- proceed with the installation of SuSE and hope that bios
can access the disk that far. My bet is that it can, since Ubuntu had no
problems booting from the same place on the disk. ;-)

> Now the partition table (which came BY DEFAULT, at the step at which the
> above error (in red) came) was as follows:
> __________________________________
>
> /dev/sda 232.89 GB
> /dev/sda1 116.88 GB HPFS/NTFS NTFS /windows/c
> /dev/sda1 116.01 GB Extended
> /dev/sad5 4.75 GB Linux swap Swap Swap
> /dev/sda6 20.00 GB F Linux native Ext4 /
> /dev/sda7 91.25 GB F Linux native Ext4 /home
> __________________________________
>
> First line: Well, /dev/sda is the whole of hard disk and its capacity is
> 232.89 GB. Its well understood. But when I bought, the vendor told me the
> capacity of 250 GB, so remaining (250-232.89) GB=17.11 GB are where, I
> don't know.

Q: How many meters are there in a kilometer?
A: 1024 --- ask any programmer! :-)

You want to read about that on

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte#Unit_multiples

When a disk manufacturer says 1GB, they typically mean 1 000 000 000 bytes,
which is 1000^3. When an OS says 1 GB (or more precisely 1GiB), it means
1 073 741 824 bytes, which is 1024^3. Hence the difference.

Also, some of the space on the disk is used up for filesystem data (and its
backups), some of it may be reserved for root (for administration purposes),
etc.

> Second line: /dev/sda1 is the Windows partition, and I guess it is taking
> number '1' since it is the default boot option...? It has been formated by
> NTFS file system as shown clearly.

It takes a number 1 because it takes the first position on the disk, physically
speaking (it's on the "near end" of the disk). Boot order has nothing to do
with this.

> Third line: /dev/sda1 extended? Is it windows only? If yes, why its size is
> 116.01 GB? and not 116.88 GB (which is in the line just above it). What
> does it mean?

I believe that wolud be /dev/sda2, rather than /dev/sda1. Please be careful
when retyping these things. :-)

You want to read about that on

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_partitioning#PC_partition_types

In short, there can be at most *four* primary partitions on a disk. If there
is need for more, one of these four is declared as "extended", and is chopped
up into a larger number of "logical" partitions. In your case, there is one
primary partition (/dev/sda1), and another primary partition (/dev/sda2) which
is declared extended, and contains several other logical partitions inside it.

Its total size is 116.01 GB, which is the space divided between swap, / and
/home. The other primary partition, /dev/sda1, is used by Windows (the C:
drive), and it is 116.88 GB in size.

The 116 for sda2 has nothing to do with the 116 for sda1, it's a coincindence
that they are almost equal in size, dividing your 250 GB disk in two almost
equal pieces. It could have been different, depending on the size of the
Windows partition.

> Fourth line: /dev/sda5 Okay Linux swap, understood and it is separate
> partition. I don't know where /dev/sda2, /dev/sda3, /dev/sda4 have gone??
>
> >From '1' it has jumped to -->> '5'...!

The dev/sda2 is the extended partition, and /dev/sda3 and /dev/sda4 would be
3rd and 4th primary partitions, if you had them. But you don't --- you have
only two primary partitions, sda1 and sda2, the latter being declared
extended. It contains several logical partitions, which are numbered sda5 and
onwards.

Trust me, it would be an even bigger mess if logical and primary partitions
were mixed up in numbering. Don't worry about it.

Incidentally, in principle you could customize your partition setup, and
instead set up four primary partitions, like this:

/dev/sda1 for Windows
/dev/sda2 for Linux /
/dev/sda3 for Linux /home
/dev/sda4 for Linux swap

That way all partitions would be primary, and there would be no extended
partition. However, if you later choose to divide one of those partitions into
two or more, you're out of luck --- you would have to back up the whole
partition, delete it and create an extended one in its place.

> Fifth line: /dev/sda6 is the root, since at the last symbol '/' is coming
> and again its a separate partition. But why it is calling Linux native? And
> why there is coming a 'F' written just after 20.00 GB, what is it
> representing?

You want to read more about that on

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem#File_systems_and_operating_systems

It is called Linux native because the filesystem which is to be put on it is
ext4, rather than fat32 or ntfs, which Windows could use. The "F" symbol is
the mark that this partition is going to be formatted during the install,
deleting all previous data that may be on it (the Ubuntu OS, in your case).

> Sixth line: /dev/sda7 ok its /home (written at the last), but it is also
> 'Linux native' and again that 'F'.

Same as above.

> On the same stage (on which the partition table and the error in red was
> being displayed), I had one more thing interesting, it is as follows. It
> was under the heading 'Change Location':-
> __________________________________
>
> -Boot from MBR is disabled (enable)
> -Boot from "/" partition is disabled (enable)
> __________________________________
>
> I don't know WHY to enable any one of the above options or to enable both
> or to not touch............? And what does they mean (the above options).

The installer is asking you where you want to put the stage1 bootloader. There
can be several stage1 bootloaders on the disk, and they can be configured in a
"chain" --- the first one is always in MBR, and it redirects the booting to the
one that is on /dev/sda1, or the one on /dev/sda6, or elsewhere. That's how
you get to choose which OS to boot when you turn on the computer.

The SuSE can set up the MBR bootloader and/or the /dev/sda6 bootloader for
you, or skip it if some other OS is already using the MBR (that would be
Ubuntu, in your case).

Since you are going to delete Ubuntu, its bootloader in MBR will fail to work.
You want to let SuSE set up the MBR, and leave the / partition alone. SuSE
will take care of itself, and it will take care of Windows via chainloading
its bootloader on /dev/sda1. You *don't* want to leave Ubuntu's bootloader in
the MBR.

If you instead wanted to install SuSE alongside Windows *and* Ubuntu, you
would have more than one way to answer this question (and it could get quite
complicated). When setting up multiboot environments, you *always* want to be
aware of what you are doing when configuring the bootloader(s), and *need* to
learn and understand how it all works together. One wrong choice can render
the whole machine nonbootable. The dual-boot is the simplest of these
configurations, but still you need to have a good idea what you are doing. :-)

Btw, unwillingness to learn these things is one of the reasons why some people
opt to using virtual machines instead of multiboot environments (of course,
this is not the only reason, there are other pro's and con's...).

> If any one can elaborate in detail all this above mentioned points, I would
> be really be thankful to. IF anything better could be done, please
> elucidate regarding the partitioning given above.

Given that you are a beginner, I can suggest to keep / and /home separated,
with additional partitions for swap and Windows. Choose / to be 20GB, choose
swap to be 2GB (it can't hurt, since you have 2GB of physical RAM), and choose
/home to take up all space that remains on the disk, since that is where all
your user data will reside (documents, music, movies, etc.... you want it to
be big enough).

Later on, if you choose to reinstall Linux, you just format the / partition,
and point the new installation to use the old /home (without formatting it),
thus keeping all your data, customizations etc. across installs. There can be
some nontrivial gotcha's there, but in general it will work better than just
having one big / partititon.

HTH, :-)
Marko

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Old 11-03-2011, 01:14 PM
Linux Tyro
 
Default Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 7:44 AM, Marko Vojinovic <vvmarko@gmail.com> wrote:




> "The boot loader is installed on a partition that doesn't lie entirely

> below 128 GB. The system might not boot is BIOS support only lba24 (result

> is error 18 during install grub MBR)."

> *__________________________________

>

> What does it ('the installation process') want to say?



Ok, you need to learn a bit or two about booting a PC. Dual-booting is a

nontrivial thing to setup, so you need to be aware of what is actually going

on inside.



You want to read about that on



* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booting#Boot_sequence_on_standard_PC_.28IBM-

PC_compatible.29

I am going to read this all as soon as I get the time.
*


When you turn on a computer, the very first thing that happens is that the

motherboard oscillator clock stats ticking. This invokes a piece of hardware

that sends a reset signal to the processor. The processor than resets itself

and starts executing commands from a fixed predetermined position in memory.

This is where the bios resides.



The bios gets loaded, does a bunch of initialization and self-testing stuff,

and eventually looks up the MBR (master boot record) of your hard disk, to

load an operating system.



The MBR is located at the very beginning of the hard drive, and is 512 bytes

long. It contains the partition table of the disk, and a "stage 1" bootloader

--- a small piece of code which knows "where to look" for an operating system

to load. Now comes the catch --- this piece of code is very size-constrained,

so it relies on bios routines to access the remainder of the hard disk. The

bios, however, may be old, and not have built-in support to access the whole

space of the 250 GB hard drive. Or maybe it can. It depends on your particular

bios, and the SuSE installation cannot check whether bios is capable of this

or not.

Oh I see.
*


In the end, you get the warning that the "stage 2" bootloader, which is to be

positioned at the beginning of the /dev/sda6 partition, might be out of reach

of bios. If it is, your system would fail to boot the SuSE installation.

Windows would be bootable no problem, because its "stage2" bootloader is at

the beginning of the /dev/sda1, which is on the "near end" of the hard drive,

and thus certainly within the reach of bios.

What earlier I used to think is that, "BIOS only send the instructions to the boot-loader (probably or whatever it sends the signal to) to just boot, BIOS has not such a bigger memory to have the hard-disk, so hard-disk is always beyond the hands of BIOS, but rather BIOS just sends the signal that ***IT*** should be booted and ***THAT*** gets booted.





Of course, once the OS gets booted,
from which location?
*it can see the whole disk with no



problems, because the OS kernel (both the Windows and Linux one) is much more

powerful than the bios, and does not rely on the bios to access the disk.

Okay.



You have two options:



(1) To look up the docs/specifications of your bios version on the Internet,

and read wheter or not it supports large hard drives (and how large).

(2) To experiment --- proceed with the installation of SuSE and hope that bios

can access the disk that far. My bet is that it can, since Ubuntu had no

problems booting from the same place on the disk. ;-)

You are absolutely correct and I got booted with SUSE, installed it with all that default options and it got booted!
*




> Now the partition table (which came BY DEFAULT, at the step at which the

> above error (in red) came) was as follows:

> *__________________________________

>

> /dev/sda * * 232.89 GB

> /dev/sda1 * 116.88 GB * * * * * HPFS/NTFS * * * *NTFS * * */windows/c

> /dev/sda1 * 116.01 GB * * * * * Extended

> /dev/sad5 * 4.75 * * GB * * * * * Linux swap * * * *Swap * * Swap

> /dev/sda6 * 20.00 * GB * *F * * Linux native * * *Ext4 * * * /

> /dev/sda7 * 91.25 * GB * *F * * Linux native * * *Ext4 * * * /home

> *__________________________________

>

> First line: Well, /dev/sda is the whole of hard disk and its capacity is

> 232.89 GB. Its well understood. But when I bought, the vendor told me the

> capacity of 250 GB, so remaining (250-232.89) GB=17.11 GB are where, I

> don't know.



Q: How many meters are there in a kilometer?

A: 1024 --- ask any programmer! :-)



You want to read about that on



* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte#Unit_multiples



When a disk manufacturer says 1GB, they typically mean 1 000 000 000 bytes,

which is 1000^3. When an OS says 1 GB (or more precisely 1GiB), it means

1 073 741 824 bytes, which is 1024^3. Hence the difference.



Also, some of the space on the disk is used up for filesystem data (and its

backups), some of it may be reserved for root (for administration purposes),

etc.

Ah well.
*


> Second line: /dev/sda1 is the Windows partition, and I guess it is taking

> number '1' since it is the default boot option...? It has been formated by

> NTFS file system as shown clearly.



It takes a number 1 because it takes the first position on the disk, physically

speaking (it's on the "near end" of the disk). Boot order has nothing to do

with this.

Okay.
*


> Third line: /dev/sda1 extended? Is it windows only? If yes, why its size is

> 116.01 GB? and not 116.88 GB (which is in the line just above it). What

> does it mean?



I believe that wolud be /dev/sda2, rather than /dev/sda1.

Yeah, you are correct, it was /dev/sda2 (confirmed in the installation).
*




You want to read about that on



* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_partitioning#PC_partition_types



In short, there can be at most *four* primary partitions on a disk. If there

is need for more, one of these four is declared as "extended", and is chopped

up into a larger number of "logical" partitions. In your case, there is one

primary partition (/dev/sda1), and another primary partition (/dev/sda2) which

is declared extended, and contains several other logical partitions inside it.



Its total size is 116.01 GB, which is the space divided between swap, / and

/home. The other primary partition, /dev/sda1, is used by Windows (the C:

drive), and it is 116.88 GB in size.



The 116 for sda2 has nothing to do with the 116 for sda1, it's a coincindence

that they are almost equal in size, dividing your 250 GB disk in two almost

equal pieces. It could have been different, depending on the size of the

Windows partition.

Right, okay, I got the idea.
*


> Fourth line: /dev/sda5 Okay Linux swap, understood and it is separate

> partition. I don't know where /dev/sda2, /dev/sda3, /dev/sda4 have gone??

>

> >From '1' it has jumped to -->> '5'...!



The dev/sda2 is the extended partition, and /dev/sda3 and /dev/sda4 would be

3rd and 4th primary partitions, if you had them. But you don't --- you have

only two primary partitions, sda1 and sda2, the latter being declared

extended. It contains several logical partitions, which are numbered sda5 and

onwards.

Okay.
*


Trust me, it would be an even bigger mess if logical and primary partitions

were mixed up in numbering. Don't worry about it.



Incidentally, in principle you could customize your partition setup, and

instead set up four primary partitions, like this:



/dev/sda1 for Windows

/dev/sda2 for Linux /

/dev/sda3 for Linux /home

/dev/sda4 for Linux swap



That way all partitions would be primary, and there would be no extended

partition. However, if you later choose to divide one of those partitions into

two or more, you're out of luck --- you would have to back up the whole

partition, delete it and create an extended one in its place.

Oh I see.





> Fifth line: /dev/sda6 is the root, since at the last symbol '/' is coming

> and again its a separate partition. But why it is calling Linux native? And

> why there is coming a 'F' written just after 20.00 GB, what is it

> representing?



You want to read more about that on



* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem#File_systems_and_operating_systems



It is called Linux native because the filesystem which is to be put on it is

ext4, rather than fat32 or ntfs, which Windows could use. The "F" symbol is

the mark that this partition is going to be formatted during the install,

deleting all previous data that may be on it (the Ubuntu OS, in your case).

Well, got.
*


> -Boot from MBR is disabled (enable)

> -Boot from "/" partition is disabled (enable)

> *__________________________________

>

> I don't know WHY to enable any one of the above options or to enable both

> or to not touch............? And what does they mean (the above options).




The installer is asking you where you want to put the stage1 bootloader. There

can be several stage1 bootloaders on the disk, and they can be configured in a

"chain" --- the first one is always in MBR, and it redirects the booting to the

one that is on /dev/sda1, or the one on /dev/sda6, or elsewhere. That's how

you get to choose which OS to boot when you turn on the computer.



The SuSE can set up the MBR bootloader and/or the /dev/sda6 bootloader for

you, or skip it if some other OS is already using the MBR (that would be

Ubuntu, in your case).

SUSE would automatically delete the MBR (which right now points to Ubuntu) and would set the other defaults.....in it?
*


Since you are going to delete Ubuntu, its bootloader in MBR will fail to work.

You want to let SuSE set up the MBR, and leave the / partition alone. SuSE

will take care of itself, and it will take care of Windows via chainloading

its bootloader on /dev/sda1. You *don't* want to leave Ubuntu's bootloader in

the MBR.

This is a small typical, what I got means I should not change this because Ubuntu is in MBR and we are going to delete the Ubuntu, so enabling it would/could make it some problem...?


*

If you instead wanted to install SuSE alongside Windows *and* Ubuntu, you

would have more than one way to answer this question (and it could get quite

complicated). When setting up multiboot environments, you *always* want to be

aware of what you are doing when configuring the bootloader(s), and *need* to

learn and understand how it all works together. One wrong choice can render

the whole machine nonbootable.
The system by mistake also if becomes Non-bootable, as in the case just in above para, would it permanently become non-bootable or we could re-write the hard-disk from scratch....(just in doubt...for future experimentation....) However, in my case it is just dual booted, working.


*The dual-boot is the simplest of these
configurations, but still you need to have a good idea what you are doing. :-)

Yeah.
*




Btw, unwillingness to learn these things is one of the reasons why some people

opt to using virtual machines instead of multiboot environments (of course,

this is not the only reason, there are other pro's and con's...).

I didn't go in virtual environment only because I thought it would be much better option to do...




Given that you are a beginner, I can suggest to keep / and /home separated,

with additional partitions for swap and Windows. Choose / to be 20GB, choose

swap to be 2GB (it can't hurt, since you have 2GB of physical RAM), and choose

/home to take up all space that remains on the disk, since that is where all

your user data will reside (documents, music, movies, etc.... you want it to

be big enough).Later on, if you choose to reinstall Linux, you just format the / partition,



and point the new installation to use the old /home (without formatting it),

thus keeping all your data, customizations etc. across installs. There can be

some nontrivial gotcha's there, but in general it will work better than just

having one big / partititon.

This is what the default openSUSE was going to do and I let it go....
However, it is a very basic question but we can boot (or not) from /home since it is a separate partition...(like /dev/sda1, windows)....?

Many new concepts, really good to know. The only problem with me is that I am in some other job, so get less time. BUT I liked Linux, anyhow, it is a great place.



I wonder why Windows was governing the world during a long era and people readily pay for it.... though Linux is such a great environment....! Isn't it?

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Old 11-03-2011, 02:55 PM
Marko Vojinovic
 
Default Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

On Thursday 03 November 2011 14:14:46 Linux Tyro wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 7:44 AM, Marko Vojinovic <vvmarko@gmail.com> wrote:
> What earlier I used to think is that, "BIOS only send the instructions to
> the boot-loader (probably or whatever it sends the signal to) to just boot,
> BIOS has not such a bigger memory to have the hard-disk, so hard-disk is
> always beyond the hands of BIOS, but rather BIOS just sends the signal that
> ***IT*** should be booted and ***THAT*** gets booted.

This is how bootloading works... First, there is bios, which is programmed to
look for and execute the boot code in the MBR, and it does so at some point.
The "look for and execute" means that bios needs to access the MBR of the
disk, read it into RAM memory, analyze whether the data contained there is
executable, and if it is to point the processor to execute it.

The "program" that gets executed like that is called the stage 1 bootloader,
and it is very very small (like 512 bytes or so), since the MBR doesn't have
more space available. What this program does is to tell the bios to access
some physical part of the hard disk, load it into memory and execute it. The
bios knows nothing about partitions and filesystems, so it cannot be just
pointed to "beginning of the partition /dev/sda6", but rather it must be given
"physical" address of the place where it should look for data. This is
explained in more detail in

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_block_addressing

The stage 1 bootloader has the LBA address of the beginning of the /dev/sda6
partition, the LBA address of the end of the data to be read in, and the code
to instruct the bios to go there, read that much data into memory, and execute
it. If the bios is not designed to access the LBA address that far on the
disk, it will fail and the machine won't boot. If it can, it goes there, reads
the data into memory, and executes it.

This data is called the stage 2 bootloader. It is a larger and more
complicated program. It understands filesystems, it has a configuration file (in
Fedora it is the /boot/grub/grub.conf file, feel free to take a look), it can
interact with a user and offer various choices for the OS to boot. Once the
bios loads it into memory and executes it, the stage 2 bootloader reads up its
configuration file, on the /dev/sda6 partition. If the file isn't there, the boot
fails (so the Ubuntu bootloader won't work if you deleted the Ubuntu system
partition). Once the configuration is processed, the user is presented with
options to load various OS's. Once the user makes a choice, the bootloader
will do whatever is specified for that OS in the config file. Typically, it will
load the kernel file (/boot/vmlinuz-something) into memory, and execute it. It
doesn't need the bios for this anymore, since it knows how to access the disk
itself.

Another typical situation is to not load a kernel, but instead read some other
stage 2 bootloader that resides on, say, /dev/sda1, and let that take over and
repeat the whole thing for another OS. This is called chainloading, and that
is how Windows gets booted from the Linux bootloader.

At any rate, eventually some kernel gets loaded into memory, and the
bootloader instructs the processor to execute that. And that's where the
*real* fun begins... ;-) But that's another story,,, :-)

> > Of course, once the OS gets booted,
>
> from which location?

In Linux, the kernel is typically a file called vmlinuz-<something>, and it
resides in the /boot directory of the filesystem tree. This directory can be
basically anywhere --- on its own partition, on the / partition, on some other
disk, etc... The stage 2 bootloader just needs to know where to look for it.

In Windows, the kernel is (IIRC) the file C:Windows
toskrnl.exe, or something
like that. The stage 2 bootloader of Windows knows where and how to find it.
The Windows' stage 2 bootloader gets loaded into memory and gets executed by
the Linux stage 2 bootloader, if you choose to boot Windows when asked (the
chainloading process).

In other OS's the kernel file may be called whatever and be situated whereever,
depending on the OS. ;-)

> SUSE would automatically delete the MBR (which right now points to Ubuntu)
> and would set the other defaults.....in it?

Yes, SuSE would wipe and rework the MBR so that it contains the stage 1
bootloader that points to SuSE's new stage 2 bootloader, instead of the old
Ubuntu's stage 2 bootloader (which was deleted during SuSE installation).
Otherwise the transition from stage 1 to stage 2 in the boot sequence above
would be broken.

> > Since you are going to delete Ubuntu, its bootloader in MBR will fail to
> > work.
> > You want to let SuSE set up the MBR, and leave the / partition alone.
> > SuSE will take care of itself, and it will take care of Windows via
> > chainloading its bootloader on /dev/sda1. You *don't* want to leave
> > Ubuntu's bootloader in
> > the MBR.
>
> This is a small typical, what I got means I should not change this because
> Ubuntu is in MBR and we are going to delete the Ubuntu, so enabling it
> would/could make it some problem...?

Yes. The above explanation should give you a clear idea what would happen if
you leave Ubuntu stage 1 loader in MBR, and delete the stage 2 loader (along
with the rest of the Ubuntu installation).

> The system by mistake also if becomes Non-bootable, as in the case just in
> above para, would it permanently become non-bootable or we could re-write
> the hard-disk from scratch....(just in doubt...for future
> experimentation....) However, in my case it is just dual booted, working.

Nothing is permanent, of course, it would just be a hassle to fix. Neither
Windows nor Linux would boot, and you would need to boot from the installation
DVD or something called the "Rescue CD", and use the rescue environment to
reinstall both stages of the Linux bootloader (or reinstall Linux completely).
You would need to know how to use the rescue environment and how to reconfigure
the GRUB (the Linux bootloader) so that it loads everything correctly. This
requires reading the documentation, which is on the Internet and you can have
a hard time accessing it, since your computer doesn't boot...

It happened to me once, back in the day --- I had to go to a nearby Internet
caffe to read the docs, pay them to print me the details, go back home only to
find out that I was reading the docs for the wrong version of the software, so
I had to visit the Internet caffe once more, pay again for the printing of new
docs, and then go home and fix it. I wasted a whole afternoon, realizing in the
end that it is a Good Idea to learn about these things *before* I make a
mess... ;-)

HTH, :-)
Marko

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Old 11-04-2011, 06:54 AM
Linux Tyro
 
Default Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Marko Vojinovic <vvmarko@gmail.com> wrote:


This is how bootloading works... First, there is bios, which is programmed to

look for and execute the boot code in the MBR, and it does so at some point.

The "look for and execute" means that bios needs to access the MBR of the

disk, read it into RAM memory, analyze whether the data contained there is

executable, and if it is to point the processor to execute it.



The "program" that gets executed like that is called the stage 1 bootloader,

and it is very very small (like 512 bytes or so), since the MBR doesn't have

more space available. What this program does is to tell the bios to access

some physical part of the hard disk, load it into memory and execute it. The

bios knows nothing about partitions and filesystems, so it cannot be just

pointed to "beginning of the partition /dev/sda6", but rather it must be given

"physical" address of the place where it should look for data. This is

explained in more detail in



* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_block_addressing



The stage 1 bootloader has the LBA address of the beginning of the /dev/sda6

partition, the LBA address of the end of the data to be read in, and the code

to instruct the bios to go there, read that much data into memory, and execute

it. If the bios is not designed to access the LBA address that far on the

disk, it will fail and the machine won't boot. If it can, it goes there, reads

the data into memory, and executes it.



This data is called the stage 2 bootloader. It is a larger and more

complicated program. It understands filesystems, it has a configuration file (in

Fedora it is the /boot/grub/grub.conf file, feel free to take a look), it can

interact with a user and offer various choices for the OS to boot. Once the

bios loads it into memory and executes it, the stage 2 bootloader reads up its

configuration file, on the /dev/sda6 partition. If the file isn't there, the boot

fails (so the Ubuntu bootloader won't work if you deleted the Ubuntu system

partition). Once the configuration is processed, the user is presented with

options to load various OS's. Once the user makes a choice, the bootloader

will do whatever is specified for that OS in the config file. Typically, it will

load the kernel file (/boot/vmlinuz-something) into memory, and execute it. It

doesn't need the bios for this anymore, since it knows how to access the disk

itself.



Another typical situation is to not load a kernel, but instead read some other

stage 2 bootloader that resides on, say, /dev/sda1, and let that take over and

repeat the whole thing for another OS. This is called chainloading, and that

is how Windows gets booted from the Linux bootloader.



At any rate, eventually some kernel gets loaded into memory, and the

bootloader instructs the processor to execute that. And that's where the

*real* fun begins... ;-) But that's another story,,, :-)



> > Of course, once the OS gets booted,

>

> from which location?



In Linux, the kernel is typically a file called vmlinuz-<something>, and it

resides in the /boot directory of the filesystem tree. This directory can be

basically anywhere --- on its own partition, on the / partition, on some other

disk, etc... *The stage 2 bootloader just needs to know where to look for it.



In Windows, the kernel is (IIRC) the file C:Windows
toskrnl.exe, or something

like that. The stage 2 bootloader of Windows knows where and how to find it.

The Windows' stage 2 bootloader gets loaded into memory and gets executed by

the Linux stage 2 bootloader, if you choose to boot Windows when asked (the

chainloading process).



In other OS's the kernel file may be called whatever and be situated whereever,

depending on the OS. ;-)



> SUSE would automatically delete the MBR (which right now points to Ubuntu)

> and would set the other defaults.....in it?



Yes, SuSE would wipe and rework the MBR so that it contains the stage 1

bootloader that points to SuSE's new stage 2 bootloader, instead of the old

Ubuntu's stage 2 bootloader (which was deleted during SuSE installation).

Otherwise the transition from stage 1 to stage 2 in the boot sequence above

would be broken.

*Yes. The above explanation should give you a clear idea what would happen if


you leave Ubuntu stage 1 loader in MBR, and delete the stage 2 loader (along

with the rest of the Ubuntu installation).



Nothing is permanent, of course, it would just be a hassle to fix. Neither

Windows nor Linux would boot, and you would need to boot from the installation

DVD or something called the "Rescue CD", and use the rescue environment to

reinstall both stages of the Linux bootloader (or reinstall Linux completely).

You would need to know how to use the rescue environment and how to reconfigure

the GRUB (the Linux bootloader) so that it loads everything correctly. This

requires reading the documentation, which is on the Internet and you can have

a hard time accessing it, since your computer doesn't boot...



It happened to me once, back in the day --- I had to go to a nearby Internet

caffe to read the docs, pay them to print me the details, go back home only to

find out that I was reading the docs for the wrong version of the software, so

I had to visit the Internet caffe once more, pay again for the printing of new

docs, and then go home and fix it. I wasted a whole afternoon, realizing in the

end that it is a Good Idea to learn about these things *before* I make a

mess... ;-)

Ah, thanks, it is pretty nice explanation and I would definitely read the docs - not only for rescue but also other details you pointed, the matter is only of time... I would do that.

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Old 11-04-2011, 07:50 AM
Linux Tyro
 
Default Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Marko Vojinovic <vvmarko@gmail.com> wrote:
*
Nothing is permanent, of course, it would just be a hassle to fix. Neither

Windows nor Linux would boot, and you would need to boot from the installation

DVD or something called the "Rescue CD", and use the rescue environment to

reinstall both stages of the Linux bootloader (or reinstall Linux completely).

You would need to know how to use the rescue environment and how to reconfigure

the GRUB (the Linux bootloader) so that it loads everything correctly. This

requires reading the documentation, which is on the Internet and you can have

a hard time accessing it, since your computer doesn't boot...
And without rescue CD (in this case of non-boot-ability), there is no other option like booting from the installation CD (allocating the whole space to one distro, like Fedora/SUSE)

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Old 11-04-2011, 10:11 AM
Linux Tyro
 
Default Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Marko Vojinovic <vvmarko@gmail.com> wrote:


This is how bootloading works...

Well, since (now) /home is a separate partition, but we cannot boot from /home only because it is not containing the required file to get booted and it is only for storing the data.....?


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Old 11-04-2011, 12:33 PM
Marko Vojinovic
 
Default Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

On Friday 04 November 2011 11:11:56 Linux Tyro wrote:
> Well, since (now) /home is a separate partition, but we cannot boot from
> /home only because it is not containing the required file to get booted and
> it is only for storing the data.....?

In principle one probably could tweak a system into booting from the /home
partition, but I see no reason to ever want such a configuration.

You want to think of the /home partition as your working area --- it is used
for storing useful personal data, custom configurations of your favorite apps,
local e-mail folders, etc. Something like the "Documents and settings" folder
in Windows, only much more useful.

In Windows people do not have a developed culture of storing their personal
files in their personal folder, while keeping the system files in system
folders. One typically logs in with administrator privileges, and puts files
whereever one sees fit at the moment.

In Linux the culture of separating personal from system is much more
developed. First, Linux inherited the Unix tradition of multi-user systems,
that didn't exist in Windows until recently. The filesystem is organized so
that every usesr's privacy is respected. Second, this is good security-wise
--- an ordinary user is not allowed to put files in system folders or in home
folders of other users, since that could compromise the system security.
Finally, a typical user on a multi-user system does *not* have a root
password, so the *only* part of the disk he can actually access is his piece
of /home. Those users who *do* have the root password know that they should
use it *only* for system administration, ie. when there is no other choice.

Think of the /home as your back-yard space where you can do whatever you want.
The rest of the filesystem is locked-out exclusively for root access (with a
few exceptions). Therefore, it makes sense to physically separate /home from
/. In addition, you can save your personal stuff across system reinstallations,
have it on removable media (such as an usb flash memory stick), etc.

Some people also separate other parts of the filesystem into separate
partitions, like /boot, /etc, /var, /tmp. /srv, and so on, depending on the
planned purpose of the system, and their personal preferences for how to use
it.

You can read more about all this on

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard

Best, :-)
Marko



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Old 11-04-2011, 02:03 PM
Linux Tyro
 
Default Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Marko Vojinovic <vvmarko@gmail.com> wrote:
*
In principle one probably could tweak a system into booting from the /home

partition, but I see no reason to ever want such a configuration.*


You want to think of the /home partition as your working area --- it is used

for storing useful personal data, custom configurations of your favorite apps,

local e-mail folders, etc. Something like the "Documents and settings" folder

in Windows, only much more useful.

Ah well, asked just for information, not going to do that, really there is not reason to do that. But why I asked because everytime we do partition on the hard disk when we can boot from each partition so just thought in that way that /home is a partition but still it is there to have data only...


I was confused since I thought earlier that partitions are always bootable, but we can have /home as partition which is still not booted (for clarification).
*



Some people also separate other parts of the filesystem into separate

partitions, like /boot, /etc, /var, /tmp. /srv, and so on, depending on the

planned purpose of the system, and their personal preferences for how to use

it.
Well, I could have all the separate partitions like you say, but as you said to have only the separate partitions of '/' and 'home', so now I have only Three partitions:-

linuxworld@linux-g34l:~> sudo /sbin/fdisk -l


Disk /dev/sda: 250.1 GB, 250059350016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 30401 cylinders, total 488397168 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes

I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0xfedcfedc

** Device Boot***** Start******** End***** Blocks** Id* System
/dev/sda1************* 63** 245106699** 122553318+** 7* HPFS/NTFS/exFAT

/dev/sda2** *** 245108734** 488396799** 121644033*** 5* Extended
/dev/sda5****** 478427136** 488396799**** 4984832** 82* Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sda6****** 245108736** 287049727*** 20970496** 83* Linux
/dev/sda7****** 287051776** 478414847*** 95681536** 83* Linux


Partition table entries are not in disk order

But I don't know having separate all the partitions would server a good purpose for initial tasks...? Perhaps they (people) might be using it* for their personal reasons... (whatever those reasons are...).


One more thing amazing me is that, (however it could be a silly doubt, I don't know...) when I typed in Ubuntu:

sudo fdisk -l

it worked. But here when I type the above command it doesn't work, but rather what I need to type here is as follows:


sudo /sbin/fdisk -l

Now, why that /sbin/ is coming, is it a bug (please don't laugh if it is not...).

Thanks man.
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Old 11-05-2011, 01:01 PM
Linux Tyro
 
Default Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Marko Vojinovic <vvmarko@gmail.com> wrote:
*

In principle one probably could tweak a system into booting from the /home

partition, but I see no reason to ever want such a configuration.*


You want to think of the /home partition as your working area --- it is used

for storing useful personal data, custom configurations of your favorite apps,

local e-mail folders, etc. Something like the "Documents and settings" folder

in Windows, only much more useful.

Ah
well, asked just for information, not going to do that, really there is
not reason to do that. But why I asked because everytime we do partition
on the hard disk when we can boot from each partition so just thought
in that way that /home is a partition but still it is there to have data
only...


I was confused since I thought earlier that partitions are always
bootable, but we can have /home as partition which is still not booted
(for clarification).
*



Some people also separate other parts of the filesystem into separate

partitions, like /boot, /etc, /var, /tmp. /srv, and so on, depending on the

planned purpose of the system, and their personal preferences for how to use

it.
Well, I could have all the separate
partitions like you say, but as you said to have only the separate
partitions of '/' and 'home', so now I have only Three partitions:-

linuxworld@linux-g34l:~> sudo /sbin/fdisk -l


Disk /dev/sda: 250.1 GB, 250059350016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 30401 cylinders, total 488397168 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes


I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0xfedcfedc

** Device Boot***** Start******** End***** Blocks** Id* System
/dev/sda1************* 63** 245106699** 122553318+** 7* HPFS/NTFS/exFAT


/dev/sda2** *** 245108734** 488396799** 121644033*** 5* Extended
/dev/sda5****** 478427136** 488396799**** 4984832** 82* Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sda6****** 245108736** 287049727*** 20970496** 83* Linux
/dev/sda7****** 287051776** 478414847*** 95681536** 83* Linux



Partition table entries are not in disk order

But
I don't know having separate all the partitions would server a good
purpose for initial tasks...? Perhaps they (people) might be using it*
for their personal reasons... (whatever those reasons are...).


One more thing amazing me is that, (however it could be a silly doubt, I don't know...) when I typed in Ubuntu:

sudo fdisk -l

it worked. But here when I type the above command it doesn't work, but rather what I need to type here is as follows:



sudo /sbin/fdisk -l

Now, why that /sbin/ is coming, is it a bug (please don't laugh if it is not...).

Thanks man.
--
THX
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