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Old 03-19-2008, 03:48 PM
Chris
 
Default Dislin breaks 37 libraries on Fedora 8

Joseph Thames wrote:

Yesterday I installed the Dislin-9.2-1 Linux rpm along with openmotif
2.2.3.10.fc4.2 and xorg-X11-libs 6.8.1-12.fc3.1, which it requires. When I
tried to link it, I got a message that libXm.so.3 was missing. This should
have been installed with openmotif, but apparently wasn't.

In trying to resolve this issue, I brought up the Synaptic package manager,
and it said that 37 packages had been broken. To fix the broken packages, it
wanted to remove the 3 packages I just installed. The broken packages are:

libdmx, libfontenc, libICE, libSM, libX11, llibXau, libXaw, libXcomposite,
libXcursor, libXdamage, libXdmcp, libXevie, libXext, libXfixes, libXfont,
libXfontcache, libXft, libxi, libxi, libXinerama, libXinerama, libxkbfile,
libXmu, libXpm, libXandr, libXrender, libXres, libXScmSaver, libXt,
libXTrap, libxtst, libXv, libXvMC, libXxf86dga, libXxf86misc, libXxf86vm,
mesa-libGL, and mesa-libGLU

This is a big show-stopper for me. I am in the process of porting a major
application system from SUSE 9.0 and G77 to Fedora 8 and Gfortran. I am not
interested in all the new features that these broken libraries support
(whatever they are). I just want to be able to demo this application to my
client in 3 weeks.

Please advise a course of action.



Is it me or... I dunno, if you are using Fedora 8, what makes you think
installing OpenMotif (FC4) and Xorg libs from FC3 are not going to break
things?


I'm not a coder by all means however, a little common sense tells me
there will be issues.


Just my uneducated 2 bits worth.

Regards,
Chris

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Old 03-19-2008, 04:46 PM
Sur
 
Default Dislin breaks 37 libraries on Fedora 8

* Joseph Thames wrote, On 03/19/2008 06:43 PM:
Yesterday I installed the Dislin-9.2-1 Linux rpm along with openmotif
2.2.3.10.fc4.2 and xorg-X11-libs 6.8.1-12.fc3.1, which it requires.
When I tried to link it, I got a message that libXm.so.3 was missing.
This should have been installed with openmotif, but apparently wasn't.


In trying to resolve this issue, I brought up the Synaptic package
manager, and it said that 37 packages had been broken. To fix the broken
packages, it wanted to remove the 3 packages I just installed. The
broken packages are:


libdmx, libfontenc, libICE, libSM, libX11, llibXau, libXaw,
libXcomposite, libXcursor, libXdamage, libXdmcp, libXevie, libXext,
libXfixes, libXfont, libXfontcache, libXft, libxi, libxi, libXinerama,
libXinerama, libxkbfile, libXmu, libXpm, libXandr, libXrender, libXres,
libXScmSaver, libXt, libXTrap, libxtst, libXv, libXvMC, libXxf86dga,
libXxf86misc, libXxf86vm, mesa-libGL, and mesa-libGLU


This is a big show-stopper for me. I am in the process of porting a
major application system from SUSE 9.0 and G77 to Fedora 8 and Gfortran.
I am not interested in all the new features that these broken libraries
support (whatever they are). I just want to be able to demo this
application to my client in 3 weeks.


Please advise a course of action.



It seems you've picked i386 rpm, rather than the i586 one:
http://www.mps.mpg.de/dislin/linux.html
http://www.mps.mpg.de/dislin/linux_i386.html







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Old 03-19-2008, 04:55 PM
Steve Underwood
 
Default Dislin breaks 37 libraries on Fedora 8

Alan Cox wrote:

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:43:28 -0600
"Joseph Thames" <beartham@gmail.com> wrote:



Yesterday I installed the Dislin-9.2-1 Linux rpm along with openmotif
2.2.3.10.fc4.2 and xorg-X11-libs 6.8.1-12.fc3.1, which it requires.



You installed a Fedora 3 X library on a Fedora 8 box ? Yes that would
make a mess. Put the Fedora 8 X libraries it lists as broken back and your
machine should be well again. I'm suprised it was possible as yum should
have spotted any clashing files.

Fedora doesn't, as you've noticed, include openmotif just lesstif. You
can either build OpenMotif yourself against a modern X library set or
build the app against lesstif. We don't include OpenMotif because it is
non-free software and in addition has some really peculiar licencing
interactions (eg you can't use it with the binary Nvidia drivers as it
may only be used with an "Open Source Operating System")

Installing lesstif is a waste of time. Its a useless piece of junk, and
people like RedHat and other distribution vendors are to blame. It was
moving alone nicely until they decided OpenMotif was good. By the time
they decided it was bad people had given up working on lesstif. Maybe it
was all a big plot to kill off the motif world completely. Whatever the
cause, it now means using Grace, Nedit and a few other favourites is a
right PITA with Fedora.


Steve

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Old 03-21-2008, 10:09 AM
Steve Underwood
 
Default Dislin breaks 37 libraries on Fedora 8

Les Mikesell wrote:

Steve Underwood wrote:


Installing lesstif is a waste of time. Its a useless piece of junk,
and people like RedHat and other distribution vendors are to blame.
It was moving alone nicely until they decided OpenMotif was good. By
the time they decided it was bad people had given up working on
lesstif. Maybe it was all a big plot to kill off the motif world
completely.


Motif had plenty of time to make itself available before anyone tried
to clone it. You don't need to blame anyone else for killing it off.


> Whatever the
cause, it now means using Grace, Nedit and a few other favourites is
a right PITA with Fedora.


Yes, if Motif had been open, or lesstif had worked from the start, a
lot of things could be about a decade ahead of where they are now...




Well, that seems like a totally meaningless response, lacking any
connection with history.


OpenMotif was made open. The distros, like RedHat went for it and
dropped support for lesstif, killing its development. Later, they
decided OpenMotif wasn't open enough after all - seems like a case of a
lack of due diligence - but by this time lesstif had withered and died.
Now they have put a totally useless lesstif back into their distros, and
carry on as if nothing is wrong. The only snag is nothing requiring a
motif environment actually works properly.


Regards,
Steve

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Old 03-21-2008, 11:08 PM
Ric Moore
 
Default Dislin breaks 37 libraries on Fedora 8

On Fri, 2008-03-21 at 19:09 +0800, Steve Underwood wrote:
> Les Mikesell wrote:

> > Yes, if Motif had been open, or lesstif had worked from the start, a
> > lot of things could be about a decade ahead of where they are now...
> >
>
> Well, that seems like a totally meaningless response, lacking any
> connection with history.
>
> OpenMotif was made open. The distros, like RedHat went for it and
> dropped support for lesstif, killing its development. Later, they
> decided OpenMotif wasn't open enough after all - seems like a case of a
> lack of due diligence - but by this time lesstif had withered and died.
> Now they have put a totally useless lesstif back into their distros, and
> carry on as if nothing is wrong. The only snag is nothing requiring a
> motif environment actually works properly.

Steve,
For those of us that never had much use for Motif in the first place,
could you give just a very brief overview of it's history, what it was
supposed to become and what it is now? Is Motif (open or closed) now
superseded by newer and more robust apps?? You seem to know a good deal
of it and your views may be better than some webpage's or a blog.

Thanks in advance, Ric

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================================================
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
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Old 03-22-2008, 09:40 PM
John Thompson
 
Default Dislin breaks 37 libraries on Fedora 8

On 2008-03-22, Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> wrote:

> For those of us that never had much use for Motif in the first place,
> could you give just a very brief overview of it's history, what it was
> supposed to become and what it is now? Is Motif (open or closed) now
> superseded by newer and more robust apps?? You seem to know a good deal
> of it and your views may be better than some webpage's or a blog.

Read on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motif_%28widget_toolkit%29

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Old 03-23-2008, 02:15 PM
Alan Cox
 
Default Dislin breaks 37 libraries on Fedora 8

> supposed to become and what it is now? Is Motif (open or closed) now
> superseded by newer and more robust apps?? You seem to know a good deal
> of it and your views may be better than some webpage's or a blog.

Motif was basically dead by the time it was opened. It has very limited
support for accessibility and complex languages as well as an Xt style
programming interface which isn't exactly developer friendly.

Alan

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Old 03-23-2008, 03:45 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default Dislin breaks 37 libraries on Fedora 8

Steve Underwood wrote:

Installing lesstif is a waste of time. Its a useless piece of junk,
and people like RedHat and other distribution vendors are to blame.
It was moving alone nicely until they decided OpenMotif was good. By
the time they decided it was bad people had given up working on
lesstif. Maybe it was all a big plot to kill off the motif world
completely.


Motif had plenty of time to make itself available before anyone tried
to clone it. You don't need to blame anyone else for killing it off.


> Whatever the
cause, it now means using Grace, Nedit and a few other favourites is
a right PITA with Fedora.


Yes, if Motif had been open, or lesstif had worked from the start, a
lot of things could be about a decade ahead of where they are now...




Well, that seems like a totally meaningless response, lacking any
connection with history.


Do you have a timeline for the events? I thought that for many years
after the CDE standardization work and the Motif implementation of it
the code was restricted - to the point that lesstif was unable to
legally duplicate its functionality and alternatives were written from
scratch.


> OpenMotif was made open.

But not by any of the open source definitions of the word.

The distros, like RedHat went for it and
dropped support for lesstif, killing its development.


How many years of development did it have before that without being
completed? I think it was dead long before RedHat had any affect on it.


Later, they
decided OpenMotif wasn't open enough after all - seems like a case of a
lack of due diligence - but by this time lesstif had withered and died.


Even before...

Now they have put a totally useless lesstif back into their distros, and
carry on as if nothing is wrong. The only snag is nothing requiring a
motif environment actually works properly.


And they never did - which is why there are only a few packages that
require it. Unfortunately they are the ones that cared about following
standards at the time...


--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com


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Old 03-23-2008, 04:34 PM
Bob Marcan
 
Default Dislin breaks 37 libraries on Fedora 8

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 11:45:37 -0500
Les Mikesell <lesmikesell@gmail.com> wrote:

> Steve Underwood wrote:
> >>>>
> >>> Installing lesstif is a waste of time. Its a useless piece of junk,
> >>> and people like RedHat and other distribution vendors are to blame.
> >>> It was moving alone nicely until they decided OpenMotif was good. By
> >>> the time they decided it was bad people had given up working on
> >>> lesstif. Maybe it was all a big plot to kill off the motif world
> >>> completely.
> >>
> >> Motif had plenty of time to make itself available before anyone tried
> >> to clone it. You don't need to blame anyone else for killing it off.
> >>
...
> And they never did - which is why there are only a few packages that
> require it. Unfortunately they are the ones that cared about following
> standards at the time...
>

Rant from the old grumpy man, starting in this bussines at 1974 on the
CDC Cyber72.
Now i'm using mxterm, xterm with the motif look, compiled with the lesstif.
And i dislike all the other (gnome,kde,qt,gtk,a,whatever...)terminals.
Maybe i'm orthodox, but i like motif and CDE.
And i like times, when everything can be defined
thru .Xdefaults, .app-defaults and -xrm.
Now i'm using fvwm and fighting with the ~/.gtkrc*, ~/.gconf*, ~/.kde*, ~/.qt,
themes to get appearance which i wish. Not yet :-(

Regards, Bob

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