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Old 09-01-2011, 09:22 PM
Matthew Saltzman
 
Default Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

On Thu, 2011-09-01 at 23:54 +0300, Pasha R wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 11:29 PM, Digimer <linux@alteeve.com> wrote:
> > On 09/01/2011 04:15 PM, Linda McLeod wrote:
> >>
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >> You'll see...
> >>
> >
> > When Red hat 8 (original) came out, I hated Gnome and wanted
> > Enlightenment back.
> >
> > When Windows 95 came out, I hated it's new UI and wanted 3.1 back.
> >
> > Things change, it's part of computers (and everything else). So when F15
> > came out, I decided to let go of my old ways of working and try to
> > understand the logic and flow of Gnome 3. Now I love it, and get
> > frustrated back on Gnome2 machines.
> >
> > Also, Linux is all about choice. Gnome 3 is what it is. You are welcome
> > to use KDE, XFCE, Ubuntu's Ubiquity or any one of the numerous other
> > window managers and/or distros.
> >
>
> When Win95 came out it took me less than 1 day to adapt (btw, do you
> know that you could use Win3.1-like program manager in Win95). When
> RH8 came out, it took me less than 1 day to adapt. Same for Gnome2,
> different versions of KDE/XFCE I tried over time. Gnome3 is the only
> exception - used it for few weeks and returned to F14.

I found a quick orientation at gnome.org. Saved me a lot of frustration
and helped me adapt much more quickly. Not sure it's love yet, but I'm
comfortable working with it.

Also, there are a bunch of extensions (and more coming. I'm sure) to
help overcome some of the annoyances. "yum list gnome-shell-*" to get
a list of the ones already supported.

>

--
Matthew Saltzman
Clemson University Mathematical Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu

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Old 09-01-2011, 09:22 PM
Richard Shaw
 
Default Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Matthew Saltzman <mjs@clemson.edu> wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-09-01 at 16:01 -0500, Richard Shaw wrote:
>> 2. Who thought it was a good idea to make someone put their cursor to
>> the upper left corner in order to switch desktops that are all the way
>> on the right? How is that ergonomic? I actually don't mind doing that
>> for switching apps or bringing up the menu so much but to switch
>> desktops it's really irritating.
>
> gnome-shell-extension-righthotcorner-1.0-1.fc15.noarch

Installed!

Thanks,
Richard
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:24 PM
Marko Vojinovic
 
Default Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 11:11 PM, Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
>> Would someone please tell me.. *Why is F-15 such a mess..? *The worst
>> thing is the jumbled up desktop..
>
> The great thing about Linux is that the desktop is not wired into the
> system. The great thing about Fedora is it supports and packages many
> desktops.
>
> So
>
> * * * *yum groupinstall Xfce
>
> exit to the graphical login, set the desktop type in the options to Xfce,
> log back in.
>
> Xfce is a traditional desktop, complete with sharp edges you can cut
> yourself on rather than a padded cell like Gnome 3. It is actually more
> configurable than Gnome 2.x in many ways as well as a lot faster and
> lighter on memory.
>
> If you really want everything to just get out of the way and don't need
> the user niceness stuff you might also want to look at Enlightement
>
> * * * *yum search enlightenment

And then there is also KDE, not as lightweight as XFCE, but very
powerful and very configurable.

A lot of people dismissed KDE after the rough time of version 4.0, in
a similar way that Gnome3 is now losing its userbase. But today KDE4
is a beautiful, stable and very user-friendly DE. I guess Gnome3 will
get back on its feet in the next couple of Fedora versions, but atm
KDE is the most polished environment available. ;-)

:-)
Marko
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:28 PM
Konstantin Svist
 
Default Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

On 09/01/2011 02:15 PM, Konstantin Svist wrote:
> On 09/01/2011 01:54 PM, Pasha R wrote:
>> When Win95 came out it took me less than 1 day to adapt (btw, do you
>> know that you could use Win3.1-like program manager in Win95). When
>> RH8 came out, it took me less than 1 day to adapt. Same for Gnome2,
>> different versions of KDE/XFCE I tried over time. Gnome3 is the only
>> exception - used it for few weeks and returned to F14.
>
> F/OSS is all about choice, so kudos! Although I would recommend going
> to another window manager, e.g. XFCE. By now it's fairly mature and
> well supported. And as a bonus, it uses a lot less system resources,
> and feels a lot faster than KDE & Gnome.
>
> To try,
> # yum groupinstall Xfce
> then select Xfce as a session before entering your password


Whoops, didn't notice you've tried XFCE already
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:34 PM
Joe Zeff
 
Default Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

On 09/01/2011 02:18 PM, Matthew Saltzman wrote:

> gnome-shell-extension-righthotcorner-1.0-1.fc15.noarch
>

Why do you have to install an extension to make such a small change?
Shouldn't this be configurable?
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:48 PM
Steven Stern
 
Default Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

On 09/01/2011 04:11 PM, Alan Cox wrote:
>> Would someone please tell me.. Why is F-15 such a mess..? The worst
>> thing is the jumbled up desktop..
>
> The great thing about Linux is that the desktop is not wired into the
> system. The great thing about Fedora is it supports and packages many
> desktops.
>
> So
>
> yum groupinstall Xfce
>
> exit to the graphical login, set the desktop type in the options to Xfce,
> log back in.
>
> Xfce is a traditional desktop, complete with sharp edges you can cut
> yourself on rather than a padded cell like Gnome 3. It is actually more
> configurable than Gnome 2.x in many ways as well as a lot faster and
> lighter on memory.
>
> If you really want everything to just get out of the way and don't need
> the user niceness stuff you might also want to look at Enlightement
>
> yum search enlightenment
>
> Alan


Here's my desktop, using XFCE and Avant Window Navigator. I stopped
using Gnome Shell not because I don't like it but because it's unstable
on my system.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/el89OuwhilZBUiv4E62nkA?feat=directlink

--
-- Steve
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Old 09-01-2011, 10:03 PM
Rudolf Kastl
 
Default Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

2011/9/1 Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>:
>> Would someone please tell me.. *Why is F-15 such a mess..? *The worst
>> thing is the jumbled up desktop..
>
> The great thing about Linux is that the desktop is not wired into the
> system. The great thing about Fedora is it supports and packages many
> desktops.
>
> So
>
> * * * *yum groupinstall Xfce
>
> exit to the graphical login, set the desktop type in the options to Xfce,
> log back in.
>
> Xfce is a traditional desktop, complete with sharp edges you can cut
> yourself on rather than a padded cell like Gnome 3. It is actually more
> configurable than Gnome 2.x in many ways as well as a lot faster and
> lighter on memory.
>
> If you really want everything to just get out of the way and don't need
> the user niceness stuff you might also want to look at Enlightement
>
> * * * *yum search enlightenment
>
> Alan

e17 will be removed from f16 because of a lack of maintainer for it
unfortunately (afaik it has been orphaned). because of that id
recommend at this point aswell to try xfce and/or lxde for a serious
work environment.

kind regards,
Rudolf Kastl

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Old 09-01-2011, 10:35 PM
Alan Cox
 
Default Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 17:16:54 -0400
DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com> wrote:

>
> Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> writes:
> > The great thing about Fedora is it supports and packages many
> > desktops.
>
> Does it support Gnome 2 ? That seems to be what everyone who complains
> about Gnome 3 actually wants...

But none of them enough to maintain it apparently. Nothing in Fedora
magically appears - someone has to maintain it.
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Old 09-01-2011, 11:23 PM
Joe Zeff
 
Default Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

On 09/01/2011 03:35 PM, Alan Cox wrote:
> But none of them enough to maintain it apparently. Nothing in Fedora
> magically appears - someone has to maintain it.

Maintaining a package takes specific programming skills and the time to
do the work. If Fedora had been able to fork Gnome and keep a Gnome 2
version alive I'd have used it but I haven't done any programming in
fifteen years, and when I did, it wasn't on that type of program.
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Old 09-02-2011, 01:04 AM
"Mark W. Jeanmougin"
 
Default Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 18:03, Rudolf Kastl <che666@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2011/9/1 Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>:
>> If you really want everything to just get out of the way and don't need
>> the user niceness stuff you might also want to look at Enlightement
>>
>> * * * *yum search enlightenment
>>
>> Alan
>
> e17 will be removed from f16 because of a lack of maintainer for it
> unfortunately (afaik it has been orphaned). because of that id
> recommend at this point aswell to try xfce and/or lxde for a serious
> work environment.

Nooooooooooo!!!!!

I've been a hard-core Enlightenment user for years. I can't imagine
having to give it up! I love that it doesn't auto-mount every disk I
plug in! I love the Ctrl-Alt-Ins to get a new terminal. I love the low
system resources.

Man, I'm going to miss it...

MJ
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