telnet on local LAN question (progress?)
 

I dug around online and found info regarding mail, port 25, and port
587. Got a little better idea what all this is about and I decided to
try some permuations

Though I didn't get any mail sent, I was able to get a failure message
back which is more info than I've seen before.

In sendmail.mc, I did the following:
+++
dnl #DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=smtp,Addr=127.0.0.1, Name=MTA')dnl
DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=smtp, Name=MTA')dnl
DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=submission, Name=MSA, M=Ea')dnl
+++

After making and restarting, I fired off an email from chowder
(192.168.2.11) to chalupa (192.168.2.10) and then got the following when
running mail (see below).

Also, telnet chalupa works on port 25 and 587.

The netstat command shows listening on 0.0.0.0:25 and 0.0.0.0:587

/etc/mail/access has 192.168.2 added (and I did try 192.168.2.0/24 in
case it wanted that form).

It appears that mails to self gets blocked if I don't have both the smtp
and submission line active (???).

I have iptables stopped and, given that I've gotten email that the
Linksys router doesn't have any blocking control on LAN communications,
only internet, I've got my router back to normal firewall configuration.

What I am hoping is that someone will spot what the blocking issue is
from the returned email (#2). I've done some looking online but am
currently drawing a blank.

Thanks again for everyone's help,
Paul

ps: the original message in the email was a line of "+++", a cut-n-paste
of the mail command, and a closing "+++"

+++ running mail +++
[paul@chowder ~]$ mail
Heirloom Mail version 12.5 7/5/10. Type ? for help.
"/var/spool/mail/paul": 2 messages
> 1 Paul Allen Newell Sun Aug 21 18:17 24/897 "chowder to
chalupa as"
2 Mail Delivery Subsys Sun Aug 21 18:17 73/2566 "Returned mail:
see tr"
& 1
Message 1:
From paul@localhost.localdomain Sun Aug 21 18:17:33 2011
Return-Path: <paul@localhost.localdomain>
From: Paul Allen Newell <paul@localhost.localdomain>
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:17:32 -0700
To: paul@chalupa.localdomain
Subject: chowder to chalupa as paul 21aug11 18:17
Cc: paul@localhost.localdomain
User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.5 7/5/10
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Status: RO

+++
[paul@chowder ~]$ mail -s "chowder to chalupa as paul 21aug11 18:17" -c
paul paul@chalupa
+++

& 2
Message 2:
From MAILER-DAEMON@chowder.localdomain Sun Aug 21 18:17:33 2011
Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON@chowder.localdomain>
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:17:33 -0700
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@chowder.localdomain>
To: <paul@localhost.localdomain>
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
boundary="p7M1HXNR011003.1313975853/chowder.localdomain"
Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure)
Status: RO

Part 1:

The original message was received at Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:17:32 -0700
from chowder [127.0.0.1]

----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<paul@chalupa.localdomain>
(reason: 530 5.7.0 Authentication required)

----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to chalupa.localdomain.:
>>> MAIL From:<paul@localhost.localdomain> SIZE=815
<<< 530 5.7.0 Authentication required
554 5.0.0 Service unavailable

Part 2:
Content-Type: message/delivery-status


Part 3:
Content-Type: message/rfc822

From paul@localhost.localdomain Sun Aug 21 18:17:32 2011
Return-Path: <paul@localhost.localdomain>
From: Paul Allen Newell <paul@localhost.localdomain>
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:17:32 -0700
To: paul@chalupa.localdomain
Subject: chowder to chalupa as paul 21aug11 18:17
Cc: paul@localhost.localdomain
User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.5 7/5/10
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

+++
[paul@chowder ~]$ mail -s "chowder to chalupa as paul 21aug11 18:17" -c
paul paul@chalupa
+++
& q
Held 2 messages in /var/spool/mail/paul
[paul@chowder ~]$
+++ end +++

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telnet on local LAN question (progress?)
 

On Sun, 2011-08-21 at 18:41 -0700, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
> I dug around online and found info regarding mail, port 25, and port
> 587. Got a little better idea what all this is about and I decided to
> try some permuations
>
> Though I didn't get any mail sent, I was able to get a failure message
> back which is more info than I've seen before.
>
> In sendmail.mc, I did the following:
> +++
> dnl #DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=smtp,Addr=127.0.0.1, Name=MTA')dnl
> DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=smtp, Name=MTA')dnl
> DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=submission, Name=MSA, M=Ea')dnl
> +++
>
> After making and restarting, I fired off an email from chowder
> (192.168.2.11) to chalupa (192.168.2.10) and then got the following when
> running mail (see below).
>
> Also, telnet chalupa works on port 25 and 587.
>
> The netstat command shows listening on 0.0.0.0:25 and 0.0.0.0:587
>
> /etc/mail/access has 192.168.2 added (and I did try 192.168.2.0/24 in
> case it wanted that form).
>
> It appears that mails to self gets blocked if I don't have both the smtp
> and submission line active (???).
>
> I have iptables stopped and, given that I've gotten email that the
> Linksys router doesn't have any blocking control on LAN communications,
> only internet, I've got my router back to normal firewall configuration.
>
> What I am hoping is that someone will spot what the blocking issue is
> from the returned email (#2). I've done some looking online but am
> currently drawing a blank.
>
> Thanks again for everyone's help,
> Paul
>
> ps: the original message in the email was a line of "+++", a cut-n-paste
> of the mail command, and a closing "+++"
>
> +++ running mail +++
> [paul@chowder ~]$ mail
> Heirloom Mail version 12.5 7/5/10. Type ? for help.
> "/var/spool/mail/paul": 2 messages
> > 1 Paul Allen Newell Sun Aug 21 18:17 24/897 "chowder to
> chalupa as"
> 2 Mail Delivery Subsys Sun Aug 21 18:17 73/2566 "Returned mail:
> see tr"
> & 1
> Message 1:
> From paul@localhost.localdomain Sun Aug 21 18:17:33 2011
> Return-Path: <paul@localhost.localdomain>
> From: Paul Allen Newell <paul@localhost.localdomain>
> Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:17:32 -0700
> To: paul@chalupa.localdomain
> Subject: chowder to chalupa as paul 21aug11 18:17
> Cc: paul@localhost.localdomain
> User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.5 7/5/10
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Status: RO
>
> +++
> [paul@chowder ~]$ mail -s "chowder to chalupa as paul 21aug11 18:17" -c
> paul paul@chalupa
> +++
>
> & 2
> Message 2:
> From MAILER-DAEMON@chowder.localdomain Sun Aug 21 18:17:33 2011
> Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON@chowder.localdomain>
> Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:17:33 -0700
> From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@chowder.localdomain>
> To: <paul@localhost.localdomain>
> Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
> boundary="p7M1HXNR011003.1313975853/chowder.localdomain"
> Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details
> Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure)
> Status: RO
>
> Part 1:
>
> The original message was received at Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:17:32 -0700
> from chowder [127.0.0.1]
>
> ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> <paul@chalupa.localdomain>
> (reason: 530 5.7.0 Authentication required)
>
> ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> ... while talking to chalupa.localdomain.:
> >>> MAIL From:<paul@localhost.localdomain> SIZE=815
> <<< 530 5.7.0 Authentication required
> 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable
>
> Part 2:
> Content-Type: message/delivery-status
>
>
> Part 3:
> Content-Type: message/rfc822
>
> From paul@localhost.localdomain Sun Aug 21 18:17:32 2011
> Return-Path: <paul@localhost.localdomain>
> From: Paul Allen Newell <paul@localhost.localdomain>
> Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:17:32 -0700
> To: paul@chalupa.localdomain
> Subject: chowder to chalupa as paul 21aug11 18:17
> Cc: paul@localhost.localdomain
> User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.5 7/5/10
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> +++
> [paul@chowder ~]$ mail -s "chowder to chalupa as paul 21aug11 18:17" -c
> paul paul@chalupa
> +++
> & q
> Held 2 messages in /var/spool/mail/paul
> [paul@chowder ~]$
> +++ end +++
----
I really don't have much interest in ploughing through all of your e-mails and all of the answers you get which just confuse the whole situation.

All you really need to do is set smarthost on all of the LAN machines -
all machines smarthost relay e-mail to chalupa and chalupa uses
smarthost - to your Internet supplier's smtp server. Basically you want
all your LAN based mail clients to use chalupa smtp server and MTA's (ie
sendmail) to smarthost deliver to the same chalupa smtp server.

Anything more is just wasted energy.

Submission port/587 requires SASL configuration / authentication which
is a more involved setup. Not a bad idea but more complex to be sure.
Should only be useful setting it up on chalupa.

Have I suggested postfix less than 3 times?

Craig



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telnet on local LAN question (progress?)
 

On 8/21/2011 9:44 PM, Craig White wrote:
>
> ----
> I really don't have much interest in ploughing through all of your e-mails and all of the answers you get which just confuse the whole situation.
>
> All you really need to do is set smarthost on all of the LAN machines -
> all machines smarthost relay e-mail to chalupa and chalupa uses
> smarthost - to your Internet supplier's smtp server. Basically you want
> all your LAN based mail clients to use chalupa smtp server and MTA's (ie
> sendmail) to smarthost deliver to the same chalupa smtp server.
>
> Anything more is just wasted energy.
>
> Submission port/587 requires SASL configuration / authentication which
> is a more involved setup. Not a bad idea but more complex to be sure.
> Should only be useful setting it up on chalupa.
>
> Have I suggested postfix less than 3 times?
>
> Craig
>
>
Craig:

Fair enough.

I really appreciate the help from you and everyone else. I was hoping
that I'd get a hint when I'd worn out my welcome on this thread so I
could end it before I got blacklisted (if I haven't been already on some
folk's accounts). I've learned from this attempt and all the information
people have offered.

And, yes, I've noticed and remembered the postfix suggestions, they seem
to show up in the proximity of a good number of links on Fedora / others
I have seen. I've also remembered suggestions of setting up the LAN to
have a mail server.

Once again, thanks to all,
Paul
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telnet on local LAN question (progress?)
 

On Sun, 2011-08-21 at 18:41 -0700, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
> Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details

Here's the hint (above), whatever mail server you end up playing with.
Look at the transcript of what you get back, and do some searching
against the error/status codes, rather than just some vague, your mail
failed. You can look into the reasons why it may have failed. I'd go
looking for some primers on "SMTP error codes" or "SMTP status codes,"
to try and find some documentation that covers them all in one spot for
you to research.

Also, check *very carefully* that your error messages are coming from
where you think they are. Look at the headers of the returned mails,
and check your server logs. e.g. Have you actually accessed another
machine on your LAN, or outside of your LAN?

I've done that before. When I first tried doing what you're trying. My
mail server machine got the message, and tried to send it through my
ISP's mail server. Which, naturally, was not going to accept mail for a
domain name that didn't exist on the WWW.
>
> The original message was received at Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:17:32 -0700
> from chowder [127.0.0.1]

Ugh, a test mail has come from 127.0.0.1. You've got machine names
resolving to 127.0.0.1. Name resolution is up the spout, and it *does*
strike problems with various servers, despite the number of people who
*apparently* get away with putting their machine hostname into the local
loopback addresses in their hosts file.

Have a look at a virgin hosts file, and it'll be like this:

cat /etc/hosts
# Do not remove the following line, or various programs
# that require network functionality will fail.
127.0.0.1 localhost.localdomain localhost
::1 localhost6.localdomain6 localhost6

No matter what anybody says, and despite the setup of Fedora doing it,
it's a bad bad BAD idea to bodge *anything* else into those two local
lines. Sure, you can get away with it under *some* circumstances. But
you can run into a hell of a lot of pain under other circumstances.

Actual hostnames belong elsewhere, and associated with other IPs.

> ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> <paul@chalupa.localdomain>
> (reason: 530 5.7.0 Authentication required)

i.e. Google: "reason: 530 5.7.0 Authentication required"

Hints: Are you set up for authenticated mail? Do you want to be? Most
people aren't on a home LAN. And I wouldn't suggest trying until you've
got basic mail working. If you're not trying to, then turn off mail
server options that check for it.

You'd previously mentioned using different ports, and playing around
with your configuration to suit. Have you put your servers back to
running on the usual SMTP port 25?

> ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> ... while talking to chalupa.localdomain.:
> >>> MAIL From:<paul@localhost.localdomain> SIZE=815
> <<< 530 5.7.0 Authentication required
> 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable

i.e. Google: "554 5.0.0 Service unavailable"

And this looks, very like, a compounded error. The first message failed
for one reason, and then another error was encountered.

And notice the "From .....@localhost.localdomain". If the receiving
mail is doing any sort of useful verification tests on "from" addresses,
then only mail sent within the same machine would pass the test. A
message from an external source with that address would be naughty.
Though most home mail servers doing some very basic verification (and
mostly useless) tests, would probably allow it.

This harks back to one of my earlier messages about name resolution. If
you don't have your basic networking working properly, things get
screwy. Various clients and servers resolve IPs to find names, and if a
non-127.x.y.z IP *resolves* to localhost.localdomain, regardless of you
believing hostnames and domain names have been set correctly, you are in
for headaches.

I really don't recall this level of pain when I first tried my own SMTP
serving. I'd recommend setting up your hosts files to best practice,
learn DNS serving (later on, save that headache for later, but you'd
need to know it for doing mail properly). Replace your customised mail
server configuration files with virgin ones, read some documentation,
and carefully customise them again. First try using a central mail
server, get that working before you try SMTP on each machine (i.e. send
all mail to usernames@that-server, from different machines on your LAN).
If you're in a safe LAN, do your experimenting with no firewalls between
machines, or make sure that port 25 is allowed between all your LAN
machines.

--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I
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telnet on local LAN question (progress?)
 

On 8/22/2011 9:51 PM, Tim wrote:

Tim:

Thanks for your two emails. I am stepping back, going through all the
email again, and rethinking what I am trying to do and the best way to
do it. This "little exercise" was much bigger than I thought and I need
to do alot of learning before I come up with something new to try

Paul
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telnet on local LAN question (progress?)
 

On Tue, 2011-08-23 at 22:15 -0700, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
> On 8/22/2011 9:51 PM, Tim wrote:
>
> Tim:
>
> Thanks for your two emails. I am stepping back, going through all the
> email again, and rethinking what I am trying to do and the best way to
> do it. This "little exercise" was much bigger than I thought and I need
> to do alot of learning before I come up with something new to try
----
get dns & dhcp server working first - or at least dns because e-mail
delivery is heavily dependent upon the ability to resolve names to ip
addresses & mail exchanger records in DNS.

Craig


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telnet on local LAN question (progress?)
 

On Tue, 2011-08-23 at 14:21 +0930, Tim wrote:

> Ugh, a test mail has come from 127.0.0.1. You've got machine names
> resolving to 127.0.0.1. Name resolution is up the spout, and it *does*
> strike problems with various servers, despite the number of people who
> *apparently* get away with putting their machine hostname into the local
> loopback addresses in their hosts file.
>
> Have a look at a virgin hosts file, and it'll be like this:
>
> cat /etc/hosts
> # Do not remove the following line, or various programs
> # that require network functionality will fail.
> 127.0.0.1 localhost.localdomain localhost
> ::1 localhost6.localdomain6 localhost6
>
> No matter what anybody says, and despite the setup of Fedora doing it,
> it's a bad bad BAD idea to bodge *anything* else into those two local
> lines. Sure, you can get away with it under *some* circumstances. But
> you can run into a hell of a lot of pain under other circumstances.
----
I'm not a fan of it either but that is indeed the way things are done.
I'm sort of old school on this myself but Ubuntu does things
similarly...

127.0.0.1 localhost
127.0.1.1 srv2.azapple.com srv2

# The following lines are desirable for IPv6 capable hosts
::1 localhost ip6-localhost ip6-loopback
fe00::0 ip6-localnet
ff00::0 ip6-mcastprefix
ff02::1 ip6-allnodes
ff02::2 ip6-allrouters

so go figure and I sort of decided to stop fighting it and go with the
flow. It works fine.

Craig



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telnet on local LAN question (progress?)
 

On 8/24/2011 7:26 PM, Craig White wrote:

Craig:

Thanks for the two emails (one in response to Tim). I am trying to do my
homework but more importantly trying to understand just what I need so I
don't solve a problem that doesn't need to be solved.

Paul
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telnet on local LAN question (progress?)
 

Tim:
>> No matter what anybody says, and despite the setup of Fedora doing
>> it, it's a bad bad BAD idea to bodge *anything* else into those two
>> local lines. Sure, you can get away with it under *some*
>> circumstances. But you can run into a hell of a lot of pain under
>> other circumstances.

Craig White:
> I'm not a fan of it either but that is indeed the way things are done.
> I'm sort of old school on this myself but Ubuntu does things
> similarly...
>
> 127.0.0.1 localhost
> 127.0.1.1 srv2.azapple.com srv2

Probably *less* of an issue, since they've not used 127.0.0.1. Although
it can behave the same, the names and numbers are different, and
shouldn't resolve back to each other. But if anything needs the machine
name's IP to resolve to an IP that something else will find it at, then
problems may still arise.

> I sort of decided to stop fighting it and go with the flow. It works
> fine.

I've always found it to be a problem with servers. Mail servers being
one of them. It seems less of an issue with clients, and I've just let
clients automatically set themselves up.

I'm yet to mess with IPv6. I don't have a ADSL modem/router that
supports it, and last time I looked there were no consumer equipment
that did (only very expensive professional Cisco gear). I don't know if
my ISP has got it working yet. Many don't, and I've read no news about
the rest of the Australian backbone. The only way I could use IPv6
across the WWW, would be if I had access to IPv6/IPv4 gateway external
to my ISP. And since it's not there externally, it's virtually
pointless to use it internally.

--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

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telnet on local LAN question (progress?)
 

On Wed, 2011-08-24 at 21:52 -0700, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
> I am trying to do my homework but more importantly trying to
> understand just what I need so I don't solve a problem that doesn't
> need to be solved.

I suppose it all depends on what you're trying to achieve. Do you need
a mail server, do you want one, do you need/want to learn how to set one
up, is it an academic exercise...?

I don't think I'd bother with trying to get several mail servers up and
running, unless I wanted to learn how mail servers interact.

Having *a* mail server on a LAN is handy for doing local mail, and not
having to configure each client to use your ISP's mail server. You can
send all your mail through your own SMTP server, and only the server
ever needs changing if your ISP changes. It's also handy so that all
log files from all computers can be mailed to one user. Rather than
that person having to check log mails all over the place.

You can drag all your external mail into your server, for local
management (IMAP is good for this). Though that's a separate issue that
what's already been discussed. And, perhaps, a more useful thing to do.

--
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2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I
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