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Old 02-15-2008, 12:52 PM
Charles Curley
 
Default User Hostile Download Page

On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 11:19:50PM +1030, Tim wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-02-15 at 12:22 +0000, Pedro Freire wrote:

>
> Before burning, and potentially wasting a disc, *I* check the downloaded
> ISO against the checksum. After that check, I move onto the next step
> (burning the disc, or simply using that file on the hard drive).

Good advice. It would help if the sha1sums were readily available. To
download the DVD image for F8, I went to http://fedoraproject.org/,
and clicked on "Get Fedora" in the left hand column. That took me to
http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora. Now, I may be getting blind in my
old age, but I see no reference to [check|sha1|md5|etc...]sums on that
page.

To get the sha1sums (and the rescue CD image) I grabbed the URL of the
DVD ISO, edited out the file name of the ISO file, and opened that URL
(http://limestone.uoregon.edu/ftp/fedora/linux/releases/8/Fedora/i386/iso/)
in another tab. I was then able to pull in the rest of the kit.

How about providing direct links to these files on the download page?

>
> Before *you* download another four gigs, do that check, and see if what
> you've downloaded is fine. If so, it's burning that you need to
> concentrate on, and you can use what you've already downloaded, getting
> it again is just going to be a waste. If not, then it's downloading
> issues that you need to resolve.
>
> Some reference material:
> http://docs.fedoraproject.org/readme-burning-isos/

Generally a useful page, except:

* It refers to F7, not F8.

* It refers to Windows tools and procedures. That's fine for folks
using Windows. However, news flash: there are other operating
systems in the world: Mac OS X, Free BSD, HP-UX, and one you may not
have heard of called "Linux".

> http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f8/

Again, as near as I can tell, no discussion of check sums or how to
get and use them.

And the main download page should have direct links to this sort of
stuff.

--

Charles Curley /" ASCII Ribbon Campaign
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:30 PM
Michael Schwendt
 
Default User Hostile Download Page

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 06:52:17 -0700, Charles Curley wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 11:19:50PM +1030, Tim wrote:
> > On Fri, 2008-02-15 at 12:22 +0000, Pedro Freire wrote:
>
> >
> > Before burning, and potentially wasting a disc, *I* check the downloaded
> > ISO against the checksum. After that check, I move onto the next step
> > (burning the disc, or simply using that file on the hard drive).
>
> Good advice. It would help if the sha1sums were readily available. To
> download the DVD image for F8, I went to http://fedoraproject.org/,
> and clicked on "Get Fedora" in the left hand column. That took me to
> http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora. Now, I may be getting blind in my
> old age, but I see no reference to [check|sha1|md5|etc...]sums on that
> page.
>
> To get the sha1sums (and the rescue CD image) I grabbed the URL of the
> DVD ISO, edited out the file name of the ISO file, and opened that URL
> (http://limestone.uoregon.edu/ftp/fedora/linux/releases/8/Fedora/i386/iso/)
> in another tab. I was then able to pull in the rest of the kit.
>
> How about providing direct links to these files on the download page?

Too confusing for new users. It would need to cover other operating systems,
offer links to Windows md5sum utilities and so on. And it doesn't protect
from media errors.

Fedora has a built-in media verification step, which everybody, who does
not know how to verify downloaded ISO images and burnt DVDs, ought to use:

http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f8/en_US/sn-verifying-media.html

Don't skip it if you haven't verified burnt discs with a tool like k3b.

Bittorrent download performs checksum verification automatically, but
does not verify burnt media, of course.

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Old 02-16-2008, 07:12 AM
Tim
 
Default User Hostile Download Page

Tim:
>> Before burning, and potentially wasting a disc, *I* check the downloaded
>> ISO against the checksum. After that check, I move onto the next step
>> (burning the disc, or simply using that file on the hard drive).

Charles Curley:
> Good advice. It would help if the sha1sums were readily available. To
> download the DVD image for F8, I went to http://fedoraproject.org/,
> and clicked on "Get Fedora" in the left hand column. That took me to
> http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora. Now, I may be getting blind in my
> old age, but I see no reference to [check|sha1|md5|etc...]sums on that
> page.

I suppose this all depends on how you got your hands on the ISO files.
I've always started from a HTTP or FTP download site, walked through to
the location for the ISO files, and the checksum file was in the same
directory.

But I agree that the information you need to know to do this isn't as
obviously available as it could be. What I did was easy, the dumbed
down webpages have gone too far (as is typical for such things).

>> Some reference material:
>> http://docs.fedoraproject.org/readme-burning-isos/

> Generally a useful page, except:
>
> * It refers to F7, not F8.

I'm not sure that's too much of a problem, though it would be better if
it were generic.

> * It refers to Windows tools and procedures. That's fine for folks
> using Windows. However, news flash: there are other operating
> systems in the world: Mac OS X, Free BSD, HP-UX, and one you may not
> have heard of called "Linux".

Yes, I've thought that a bit of an omission, too. Though, if you're
already using Linux, you've already got documentation included with your
burning software, so there's a bit of presumption, there. You'd expect
the same for Windows users (documentation with their software), but some
Windows software is a bit tricky to work out how to burn a disc from an
ISO.

> the main download page should have direct links to this sort of
> stuff.

It certainly should be easier, but you can't have *everything* on the
download page. You'll end up with a mammoth page. ;-)

--
(This computer runs FC7, my others run FC4, FC5 & FC6, in case that's
important to the thread.)

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

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Old 02-16-2008, 07:13 AM
Tim
 
Default User Hostile Download Page

On Fri, 2008-02-15 at 16:30 +0100, Michael Schwendt wrote:
> Too confusing for new users. It would need to cover other operating
> systems, offer links to Windows md5sum utilities and so on. And it
> doesn't protect from media errors.
>
> Fedora has a built-in media verification step, which everybody, who
> does not know how to verify downloaded ISO images and burnt DVDs,
> ought to use:
>
>
> http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f8/en_US/sn-verifying-media.html
>
> Don't skip it if you haven't verified burnt discs with a tool like
> k3b.

The problem with that is twofold:

If you've downloaded garbage, you'll burn garbage, which you won't
detect until you've wasted a disc or three. A simpler process to check
your download before burning it is important.

There's that long-standing bug that some drives will mess up when you do
the media check. You should, still, do some sort of burnt disc
verification, but this needs improving, too.

--
(This computer runs FC7, my others run FC4, FC5 & FC6, in case that's
important to the thread.)

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

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