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Old 07-13-2011, 06:36 PM
Tim
 
Default Gnome 3 ~ Windows 8?

On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 10:44 -0700, James McKenzie wrote:
> as a Linux user you have a VARIETY of desktops to select from.
> GNOME is just one of them.

Actually, there is a little bit more to it than that...

At the basic level, yes, you can pick a desktop that appears in a manner
that pleases you. But there's other things that Gnome and KDE have
handled, that some other desktops have not (hardware ownership,
automatic disk mounting, networking, etc.).

What irritates me, and others, was that we found Gnome 2 to be just
about what we wanted, in a myriad of ways. But Gnome 3 is just too
different that we now need to find something else that is how Gnome 2
used to be. Or, jumping distros to one of the long-term ones, that
still uses Gnome 2, and doesn't do major package updates within its
lifespan.

We're back to finding the "least objectionable" out of several choices.
Which doesn't bode well for software design, in general, when that's
your method of choosing something, rather than looking for "the best."
Unfortunately, that seems to be par for the course.

I see the sense in pushing the boundaries for high end computing. I
don't see the sense in making low end computing require high end
hardware. What's low end computing? Email, web browsing, not playing
video games. It's just gross inefficiency to require a 4 GHz computer
to do that.

--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I
read messages from the public lists.



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Old 07-13-2011, 06:54 PM
Tom Horsley
 
Default Gnome 3 ~ Windows 8?

On Wed, 13 Jul 2011 16:04:12 +0000 (UTC)
JB wrote:

> Some of these Ubuntu and Unity frustrated users are so clueless that they seek
> a remedy by wanting to move to Fedora ...
> There are some wolves waiting for them: GNOME 3, systemd, ... :-)

Have you tried Unity? I didn't think it was possible to make
a more absurd user interface than Gnome 3 right up until
I tried Unity, then Gnome 3 suddenly looked like sheer
genius in comparison.
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Old 07-14-2011, 01:45 AM
Tom H
 
Default Gnome 3 ~ Windows 8?

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 1:44 PM, James McKenzie <jjmckenzie51@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 10:32 AM, Tim <ignored_mailbox@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>> On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 09:54 -0500, Mike Chambers sent:
>>>
>>> Without intending a flamewar
>>
>> Hmmph... *Then goes ahead and does something that's likely to do so.
>> Statements, like that, are similar to: *With all due respect...
>> And: *I don't mean to be critical, but...
>>
>> Anyway, this argument has already been done and dusted on this list,
>> about two weeks ago.


> One, as a Linux user you have a VARIETY of desktops to select from.
> GNOME is just one of them.

True but GNOME is the Fedora default; that's why Fedora's GNOME
edition's called "Fedora 15 Desktop Edition" and the other DEs are
"spins".

http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora-options#desktops


> Two, Windows7/8 is a clone of the MacOSX Aqua desktop's look and feel.
> *Apple has agreed not to sue Microsoft because of an earlier agreement
> and U.S. Federal court case.
> Three. Who actually cares what anyone thinks at this point about
> Windows. This is a Linux distribution mailing list. Let's keep it
> that way.
> In other words, let's close the subject and let this thing die. *(I
> know, eat your own words, but that is a summation of the previous
> discusssion.)

I'd understand your logic if the OP'd asked how to do this or that on
Windows. But some people may be interested in comparing Linux with
other OSs, especially since OS X, Windows, GNOME Shell, and Unity are
all converging towards an OSX+iOS look and feel.
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Old 07-14-2011, 01:47 AM
Tom H
 
Default Gnome 3 ~ Windows 8?

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Tom Horsley <horsley1953@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jul 2011 16:04:12 +0000 (UTC)
> JB wrote:
>>
>> Some of these Ubuntu and Unity frustrated users are so clueless that they seek
>> a remedy by wanting to move to Fedora ...
>> There are some wolves waiting for them: GNOME 3, systemd, ... :-)
>
> Have you tried Unity? I didn't think it was possible to make
> a more absurd user interface than Gnome 3 right up until
> I tried Unity, then Gnome 3 suddenly looked like sheer
> genius in comparison.

GNOME Shell and Unity seem very similar - and equally good - to me!
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Old 07-14-2011, 06:01 AM
Frantisek Hanzlik
 
Default Gnome 3 ~ Windows 8?

Tim wrote:
> I don't... They all (Linux too) seem to be heading for being some sort
> of iPad clone. Being all the more inappropriate for trying to use a
> touch-screen type of interface, when you don't have a touch-screen.
>
> They're also being painful as far as multi-tasking is concerned.
> Wacking great big oversized GUIs for things, so you can't use two or
> three applications side by side. You have to window shuffle.
>
> Starting things from the icons on the desktop background, so you have to
> get your windows out of the way to get to the icons. Having to search
> for your program, because there isn't a structured menu (either one
> that's categorised, or one that doesn't keep re-arranging the order that
> things and jumbled together).

This is exactly one what I think about Gnome 3 - maybe good for
PADs, but tedious for power desktop users with many installed and
simultaneously running apps.
Golden Gnome 2!

Franta Hanzlik
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Old 07-14-2011, 07:36 AM
JB
 
Default Gnome 3 ~ Windows 8?

Tom H <tomh0665 <at> gmail.com> writes:

>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Tom Horsley <horsley1953 <at> gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On Wed, 13 Jul 2011 16:04:12 +0000 (UTC)
> > JB wrote:
> >>
> >> Some of these Ubuntu and Unity frustrated users are so clueless that they
> >> seek a remedy by wanting to move to Fedora ...
> >> There are some wolves waiting for them: GNOME 3, systemd, ...
> >
> > Have you tried Unity? I didn't think it was possible to make
> > a more absurd user interface than Gnome 3 right up until
> > I tried Unity, then Gnome 3 suddenly looked like sheer
> > genius in comparison.
>
> GNOME Shell and Unity seem very similar - and equally good - to me!

Btw, I always wanted to ask you about it ...
Are you, Tom Horsley and Tom H, the same guys, but just very playful with us
by always standing on the opposite sides of the issue ? :-)

JB


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Old 07-14-2011, 08:07 AM
Ralf Corsepius
 
Default Gnome 3 ~ Windows 8?

On 07/13/2011 08:54 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jul 2011 16:04:12 +0000 (UTC)
> JB wrote:
>
>> Some of these Ubuntu and Unity frustrated users are so clueless that they seek
>> a remedy by wanting to move to Fedora ...
>> There are some wolves waiting for them: GNOME 3, systemd, ... :-)
>
> Have you tried Unity?
Yes, I did.

> I didn't think it was possible to make
> a more absurd user interface than Gnome 3 right up until
> I tried Unity, then Gnome 3 suddenly looked like sheer
> genius in comparison.

IMO, unity and Gnome 3 have both pros and cons in details, while sharing
the same absurd mindset overall - A choice between "pest or colera", as
we say in German.

Anyway, on my netbook, unity appears to be less unusable as Gnome 3 to
me. On desktops, I would have to lie to find any of them compelling.

Ralf


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Old 07-14-2011, 08:34 AM
Tom H
 
Default Gnome 3 ~ Windows 8?

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 3:36 AM, JB <jb.1234abcd@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Are you, Tom Horsley and Tom H, the same guys, but just very playful with us
> by always standing on the opposite sides of the issue ? :-)

No relation.

Always on opposites sides?!
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Old 07-14-2011, 08:39 AM
Daniele Guerrieri
 
Default Gnome 3 ~ Windows 8?

> [tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
> 2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686
> What irritates me, and others, was that we found Gnome 2 to be just
> about what we wanted, in a myriad of ways. *But Gnome 3 is just too
> different that we now need to find something else that is how Gnome 2
> used to be. *Or, jumping distros to one of the long-term ones, that
> still uses Gnome 2, and doesn't do major package updates within its
> lifespan.
>
> We're back to finding the "least objectionable" out of several choices.
> Which doesn't bode well for software design, in general, when that's
> your method of choosing something, rather than looking for "the best."
> Unfortunately, that seems to be par for the course.
>
> I see the sense in pushing the boundaries for high end computing. *I
> don't see the sense in making low end computing require high end
> hardware. *What's low end computing? *Email, web browsing, not playing
> video games. *It's just gross inefficiency to require a 4 GHz computer
> to do that.

This is similar to what i tried to say on gnome-shell mailing list, if
you want take a look; also i appreciated that someone other noticed
the similarities between gnome-shell and ipad-tablet devices, and how
it is not very comfortable:

>This is exactly one what I think about Gnome 3 - maybe good for
>PADs, but tedious for power desktop users with many installed and
>simultaneously running apps.
>Golden Gnome 2!
>Franta Hanzlik

if you want take a look to recent gnome-shell "gnome and android"
thread http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-shell-list/2011-July/msg00108.html

Daniele
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Old 07-14-2011, 07:53 PM
James McKenzie
 
Default Gnome 3 ~ Windows 8?

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:01 PM, Frantisek Hanzlik <franta@hanzlici.cz> wrote:
> Tim wrote:
>> I don't... *They all (Linux too) seem to be heading for being some sort
>> of iPad clone. *Being all the more inappropriate for trying to use a
>> touch-screen type of interface, when you don't have a touch-screen.
>>
>> They're also being painful as far as multi-tasking is concerned.
>> Wacking great big oversized GUIs for things, so you can't use two or
>> three applications side by side. *You have to window shuffle.
>>
>> Starting things from the icons on the desktop background, so you have to
>> get your windows out of the way to get to the icons. *Having to search
>> for your program, because there isn't a structured menu (either one
>> that's categorised, or one that doesn't keep re-arranging the order that
>> things and jumbled together).
>
> This is exactly one what I think about Gnome 3 - maybe good for
> PADs, but tedious for power desktop users with many installed and
> simultaneously running apps.
> Golden Gnome 2!

Gnome 2 is now offically dead.

Now, back to what I said earlier. YOU, the Linux user, have a CHOICE
of desktop/window managers. YOU should avail yourself of this
feature. If you want to 'resurect' Gnome2, you are more than welcome
to. It is after all, GPL/LGPL licensed and you should be free to spin
off whatever you want. However, do not expect the Gnome support team
to help in your efforts.

For all concerned: The goal behind some of the moves you folks see in
desktops is to move more users to Linux vice 'that other stuff'. This
means making things familiar to those folks. I really would like for
the old projects to be continued for us older 'power users' and new
desktops to be introduced for those who need/desire those features. I
did not like what happened when Windows95 introduced the 'Start'
button feature. Over the years, I grew used to this. I still think
that the idea is 'stupid' but I now understand why this happened. And
I was and remain a command line power guru.

James McKenzie
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