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Old 06-25-2011, 09:43 PM
Joe Zeff
 
Default where is gnomebreakpad

On 06/25/2011 02:23 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
> Are you suggesting that I am unaware of that?
>

Judging only by your writing, I've no idea.

> Are you also aware that pointing out spelling errors and grammar errors
> of people on mailing lists has long been considered bad form?

Usually by people who either can't or won't use them properly. However,
I'd also like to point out that if you hadn't corrected yourself, I'd
not have mentioned it either. As you did, I made what was intended to
be a helpful suggestion as to how to avoid it. Instead of accepting it
in the spirit in which it was offered, you decided to take offense where
none was offered.
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Old 06-25-2011, 09:55 PM
Ed Greshko
 
Default where is gnomebreakpad

On 06/26/2011 05:43 AM, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 06/25/2011 02:23 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
>> Are you suggesting that I am unaware of that?
>>
> Judging only by your writing, I've no idea.

So, you are suggesting I am a "poor" writer due to my writing which you
have judged?

>> Are you also aware that pointing out spelling errors and grammar errors
>> of people on mailing lists has long been considered bad form?
> Usually by people who either can't or won't use them properly. However,
> I'd also like to point out that if you hadn't corrected yourself, I'd
> not have mentioned it either. As you did, I made what was intended to
> be a helpful suggestion as to how to avoid it. Instead of accepting it
> in the spirit in which it was offered, you decided to take offense where
> none was offered.

Not offended. Just mildly irritated. (FWIW, IMO, folks should ask what
others are feeling and not make assumed statements.)

You have no idea who I am. You don't know, for example, that I may have
a vision impairment which may make proof reading harder than normal.
You don't know, for example, that I may suffer from dyslexia.

Thank you for letting me, and others, know that we should avoid
correcting ourselves (even if the correction is necessary to avoid a
technical misunderstanding) to help you with your desire to make
"helpful suggestions".


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Old 06-25-2011, 10:16 PM
Joe Zeff
 
Default where is gnomebreakpad

On 06/25/2011 02:55 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
> So, you are suggesting I am a "poor" writer due to my writing which you
> have judged?

No. I'm saying that I have no way of knowing, other than what I see in
your posts. And, for the record, much of your writing is excellent, as
the vicar said to the bishop.
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Old 06-25-2011, 10:23 PM
Ed Greshko
 
Default where is gnomebreakpad

On 06/26/2011 06:16 AM, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 06/25/2011 02:55 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
>> So, you are suggesting I am a "poor" writer due to my writing which you
>> have judged?
> No. I'm saying that I have no way of knowing, other than what I see in
> your posts. And, for the record, much of your writing is excellent, as
> the vicar said to the bishop.

Yes, you have no way of knowing anything about me. Just what you judge
based on what you read.

Well, now that you've established yourself as the "writer" on this list
and maybe the expert and arbiter of all things related to American
English (British English too?) some folks may pay attention to every
detail of what you write in order to make helpful suggestions about how
you may improve. That is, of course, assuming you are not above reproach.
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Old 06-25-2011, 11:14 PM
Joe Zeff
 
Default where is gnomebreakpad

On 06/25/2011 03:23 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
> Well, now that you've established yourself as the "writer" on this list
> and maybe the expert and arbiter of all things related to American
> English (British English too?)

For someone who didn't take offense, you're getting surprisingly
belligerent, you know.

> some folks may pay attention to every
> detail of what you write in order to make helpful suggestions about how
> you may improve. That is, of course, assuming you are not above reproach.

Go for it. Unlike some people I know (in person, that is) I don't
consider myself perfect and I certainly make my share of mistakes. And,
of course, you can't correct your mistakes if everybody's afraid to
point them out.
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Old 06-26-2011, 12:06 AM
Craig White
 
Default where is gnomebreakpad

On Sat, 2011-06-25 at 16:14 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote:

> Go for it. Unlike some people I know (in person, that is) I don't
> consider myself perfect and I certainly make my share of mistakes. And,
> of course, you can't correct your mistakes if everybody's afraid to
> point them out.
----
this list does not need to waste the bandwidth for every would be
grammarian. This is about Fedora, not grammar 101.

E-mail itself is informal despite anyone's attempts to make it otherwise
and thus spelling, sentence structure and other grammatical faux pas are
completely irrelevant to the topic. The only point is to make yourself
understood.

This of course doesn't even begin to cover the many who frequent this
list for whom English is not their native language and might be put off
by self-appointed jackasses defenders of grammatical correctness.

Craig


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Old 06-26-2011, 01:46 AM
Joe Zeff
 
Default where is gnomebreakpad

On 06/25/2011 05:06 PM, Craig White wrote:
> This of course doesn't even begin to cover the many who frequent this
> list for whom English is not their native language and might be put off
> by self-appointed jackasses defenders of grammatical correctness.

Which is why I don't normally comment on such things. Instead, if I see
that the message came from someplace where English is at best a second
language, I cut them extra slack. And, please note, this tempest in a
tea pot didn't start because I corrected somebody, it started when I
replied to a poster's self-correction with a friendly suggestion about
how to avoid similar mistakes in the future. If the OP hadn't corrected
himself I would have just let the error go by without comment, the same
way I do with other errors.
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Old 06-26-2011, 05:40 AM
Ed Greshko
 
Default where is gnomebreakpad

On 06/26/2011 07:14 AM, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 06/25/2011 03:23 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
>> Well, now that you've established yourself as the "writer" on this list
>> and maybe the expert and arbiter of all things related to American
>> English (British English too?)
> For someone who didn't take offense, you're getting surprisingly
> belligerent, you know.

IMO, what I've said doesn't rise to the level of belligerence. If I
wanted to be hostile I would have told you directly what I though of you
and what you could do with your supposedly "helpful" suggestion. Now,
that would have been hostile.

>> some folks may pay attention to every
>> detail of what you write in order to make helpful suggestions about how
>> you may improve. That is, of course, assuming you are not above reproach.
> Go for it. Unlike some people I know (in person, that is) I don't
> consider myself perfect and I certainly make my share of mistakes. And,
> of course, you can't correct your mistakes if everybody's afraid to
> point them out.

I said "some folks". I hope you didn't take that to mean me. I have
better things to do with my time.

You can't being to imagine how underwhelmed I I found myself when you
rated my writing "good" in an earlier post.

Yet, I guess it is good to know that as long as people make grammatical
errors and spellings mistakes as long as they don't correct themselves
you'll keep quiet about it.

Now back the technical portion of our program.

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Old 06-26-2011, 06:00 AM
Joe Zeff
 
Default where is gnomebreakpad

On 06/25/2011 10:40 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
> Yet, I guess it is good to know that as long as people make grammatical
> errors and spellings mistakes as long as they don't correct themselves
> you'll keep quiet about it.

Please note that *I'm* not the one with the chip on my shoulder.
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Old 06-26-2011, 06:28 AM
Ed Greshko
 
Default where is gnomebreakpad

On 06/26/2011 02:00 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 06/25/2011 10:40 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
>> Yet, I guess it is good to know that as long as people make grammatical
>> errors and spellings mistakes as long as they don't correct themselves
>> you'll keep quiet about it.
> Please note that *I'm* not the one with the chip on my shoulder.

Why do you find it necessary to attempt to characterize what you feel
someone else feels or thinks?

As far as I can tell, I am simply repeating what you've already
said/claimed...and added a bit of an editorial comment.

You did say the only reason you decided to "help" me was because I had
corrected my mistake. Yes? So, I'm simply saying that as long as
nobody corrects themselves you'll not feel the need to come to their
aid. Which I personally find to be a good thing. I don't think anyone
on this list is looking for help in grammar or writing style.

FWIW, the only reason I found it necessary to correct myself is due to
the possibility of my mistake being taken as a proper linux command by
the OP. Since I have no knowledge of his experience level I wanted to
make sure that he understood I meant "yum" and not "you". I wanted to
avoid the possibility of him coming back and telling me that he ran the
command I suggested and got back "bash: you: command not found...".

Now, would you like to get back our regularly scheduled programming or
do you really need to have the last word.
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