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Old 06-15-2011, 09:04 AM
Ed Greshko
 
Default systemd, complex?

I must admit that I've not spent much time to digest what advantages
there are to moving to systemd. However, it does seem to be quite a
complex system with, as of yet, hard to locate documentation. I've also
not had to debug any start up failures...but wanted to learn more about
systemctl.

While it is only a blog entry between developers of systemd I did run
into this gem which, at first blush, makes me apprehensive.



bochecha: well, there are many reasons why a service might show up as
failed to load in the systemctl output: for example, it was referenced
as required dependency of another service, but we couldn't find neither
a native service definition file nor a SysV init script for it. Or,
there was a parsing failure while reading it. Or, because the file was
incomplete. And that might even happen while a service is active, for
example, because the user requested a configuration file reload from
systemd after changing a service file, and a service that is already
running suddenly has an invalid configuration file. That effectively
means that the LOAD and the ACTIVE state are mostly orthogonal: you may
have a running service where configuration loaded fine, you may have a
stopped service where it loaded fine, but you may also have a running
service where configuration failed to load.

And yes, ACTIVE and SUB show you the same information, though ACTIVE in
a more generalized form. While SUB has states that are specific to each
unit type (e.g. "running", "exited", "dead" for services; "plugged" and
"dead" for devices; or "mounted" and "dead" for mount points), ACTIVE
exposes the same high-level states for all units.

We only distinguish 6 ACTIVE states (to list them: active, reloading,
inactive, maintenance, activating, deactivating), which are mapped from
the lower-level states, which might be many more. For example services
have 15 low-level states: dead, start-pre, start, start-post, running,
exited, reload, stop, stop-sigterm, stop-sigkill, stop-post,
final-sigterm, final-sigkill, maintenance, auto-restart.



FWIW, it seems there are more than 15 low-level states since I also see
"plugged" in the output of systemctl. The concept of the MS Windows
registry confuses the heck out of me. In some respects I wonder if this
will also lead to confusion. Will all of this be hidden behind some GUI
that performs correctly 98% of the time?

Yes, I suppose I need to give it more time...and dedicate some effort to
really understanding it....
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Old 06-15-2011, 09:53 AM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default systemd, complex?

On 06/15/2011 02:34 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
> I must admit that I've not spent much time to digest what advantages
> there are to moving to systemd. However, it does seem to be quite a
> complex system with, as of yet, hard to locate documentation. I've also
> not had to debug any start up failures...but wanted to learn more about
> systemctl.

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Systemd

> While it is only a blog entry between developers of systemd I did run
> into this gem which, at first blush, makes me apprehensive.
bochecha is not a systemd developer

Rahul

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Old 06-15-2011, 09:53 AM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default systemd, complex?

On 06/15/2011 02:34 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
> I must admit that I've not spent much time to digest what advantages
> there are to moving to systemd. However, it does seem to be quite a
> complex system with, as of yet, hard to locate documentation. I've also
> not had to debug any start up failures...but wanted to learn more about
> systemctl.

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Systemd

> While it is only a blog entry between developers of systemd I did run
> into this gem which, at first blush, makes me apprehensive.
bochecha is not a systemd developer

Rahul

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Old 06-15-2011, 10:02 AM
Ed Greshko
 
Default systemd, complex?

On 06/15/2011 05:53 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> On 06/15/2011 02:34 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
>> I must admit that I've not spent much time to digest what advantages
>> there are to moving to systemd. However, it does seem to be quite a
>> complex system with, as of yet, hard to locate documentation. I've also
>> not had to debug any start up failures...but wanted to learn more about
>> systemctl.
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Systemd

Read that.... Doesn't answer my question about the various status. Got
a link for that?

>> While it is only a blog entry between developers of systemd I did run
>> into this gem which, at first blush, makes me apprehensive.
> bochecha is not a systemd developer
>
>

Yes, I realized that after sending.... Still that blog entry doesn't
seem off base in presenting a complex system.

So, until I find out the answers to my questions.....




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Old 06-15-2011, 10:18 AM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default systemd, complex?

On 06/15/2011 03:32 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
> On 06/15/2011 05:53 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>> On 06/15/2011 02:34 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
>>> I must admit that I've not spent much time to digest what advantages
>>> there are to moving to systemd. However, it does seem to be quite a
>>> complex system with, as of yet, hard to locate documentation. I've also
>>> not had to debug any start up failures...but wanted to learn more about
>>> systemctl.
>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Systemd
> Read that.... Doesn't answer my question about the various status. Got
> a link for that?

I will either do a write up and either update the man page or the wiki
link above when I find time

Rahul
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Old 06-15-2011, 10:20 AM
Ed Greshko
 
Default systemd, complex?

On 06/15/2011 05:53 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> bochecha is not a systemd developer
>

Oh, BTW, even though I realized my error.... I make the error due to
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Systemd#References

On that page it says....

http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/ - Developer blog has lots of
information about systemd

So, I was tripped up by the Fedora documentation... :-)
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Old 06-15-2011, 10:29 AM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default systemd, complex?

On 06/15/2011 03:50 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
> On 06/15/2011 05:53 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>> bochecha is not a systemd developer
>>
> Oh, BTW, even though I realized my error.... I make the error due to
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Systemd#References
>
> On that page it says....
>
> http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/ - Developer blog has lots of
> information about systemd
>
> So, I was tripped up by the Fedora documentation... :-)

What are you talking about? That blog is run by Lennart who is the
primary developer of systemd. Bochecha was just commenting on the blog
post.

Rahul

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Old 06-15-2011, 10:37 AM
Ed Greshko
 
Default systemd, complex?

On 06/15/2011 06:29 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> On 06/15/2011 03:50 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
>> On 06/15/2011 05:53 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>>> bochecha is not a systemd developer
>>>
>> Oh, BTW, even though I realized my error.... I make the error due to
>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Systemd#References
>>
>> On that page it says....
>>
>> http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/ - Developer blog has lots of
>> information about systemd
>>
>> So, I was tripped up by the Fedora documentation... :-)
> What are you talking about? That blog is run by Lennart who is the
> primary developer of systemd. Bochecha was just commenting on the blog
> post.
>
>

I saw the words "Developer blog" and made the assumption that it was a
blog "by and for" developers of systemd.

Do you now understand what I am talking about? And you did notice the
:-) in my "tripped up" statement, yes? Yet, I'm not sure I am the only
one that could made an erroneous assumption.


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Old 06-15-2011, 10:38 AM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default systemd, complex?

On 06/15/2011 04:07 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
> I saw the words "Developer blog" and made the assumption that it was a
> blog "by and for" developers of systemd.
>
> Do you now understand what I am talking about? And you did notice the
> :-) in my "tripped up" statement, yes? Yet, I'm not sure I am the only
> one that could made an erroneous assumption.

Ok. Fixed

Rahul



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Old 06-15-2011, 01:48 PM
nomnex
 
Default systemd, complex?

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 17:04:36 +0800
Ed Greshko <Ed.Greshko@greshko.com> wrote:

> I must admit that I've not spent much time to digest what advantages
> there are to moving to systemd. However, it does seem to be quite a
> complex system with, as of yet, hard to locate documentation.

subscribe to the dev. list: <devel@lists.fedoraproject.org>

there is an on-going discussion about systemd. Search the archives for:
"systemd: please stop trying to take over the world "
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