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Old 06-13-2011, 09:01 PM
Aaron Konstam
 
Default Still some mysteie about FC15

On Mon, 2011-06-13 at 22:29 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
> > Well I was on vacation so I only installed FC15 today.
> > And some strange tings occurred.
> > 1, The wiki pages on systemd say that chkconfig --less
> > does not work. That is not true. I know its a wiki and I can make
> > changes. Well maybe sometime.
>
> --less? Do you mean --list? If so, the latter really isn't accurate.
> It even warns about that:

I did mean chkconfig --list
That works on my machine. Are you saying it does not?
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:53 AM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Still some mysteie about FC15

On 06/14/2011 02:31 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
> On Mon, 2011-06-13 at 22:29 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
>>> Well I was on vacation so I only installed FC15 today.
>>> And some strange tings occurred.
>>> 1, The wiki pages on systemd say that chkconfig --less
>>> does not work. That is not true. I know its a wiki and I can make
>>> changes. Well maybe sometime.
>> --less? Do you mean --list? If so, the latter really isn't accurate.
>> It even warns about that:
> I did mean chkconfig --list
> That works on my machine. Are you saying it does not?

Where exactly in the wiki does it say it won't work?

Rahul

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Old 06-14-2011, 07:15 AM
Michael Schwendt
 
Default Still some mysteie about FC15

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:01:12 -0500, AK wrote:

> On Mon, 2011-06-13 at 22:29 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
> > > Well I was on vacation so I only installed FC15 today.
> > > And some strange tings occurred.
> > > 1, The wiki pages on systemd say that chkconfig --less
> > > does not work. That is not true. I know its a wiki and I can make
> > > changes. Well maybe sometime.
> >
> > --less? Do you mean --list? If so, the latter really isn't accurate.
> > It even warns about that:
>
> I did mean chkconfig --list
> That works on my machine. Are you saying it does not?

Please link to the Wiki page you refer to or quote the relevant
part you refer to. Alternatively, expand on what you want to know
exactly. I've quoted a warning printed by chkconfig, and yes,
chkconfig isn't accurate/reliable anymore with systemd. That's not
specific to its --list option.
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:15 PM
Aaron Konstam
 
Default Still some mysteie about FC15

On Tue, 2011-06-14 at 08:23 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> On 06/14/2011 02:31 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
> > On Mon, 2011-06-13 at 22:29 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
> >>> Well I was on vacation so I only installed FC15 today.
> >>> And some strange tings occurred.
> >>> 1, The wiki pages on systemd say that chkconfig --less
> >>> does not work. That is not true. I know its a wiki and I can make
> >>> changes. Well maybe sometime.
> >> --less? Do you mean --list? If so, the latter really isn't accurate.
> >> It even warns about that:
> > I did mean chkconfig --list
> > That works on my machine. Are you saying it does not?
>
> Where exactly in the wiki does it say it won't work?
>
> Rahul
>

In the section headed "Does chkconfig command work with systemd?

The last line says: chkconfig --list doesn't list systemd services,
which is a slightly more obscure statement. Are not services like sshd
services systemd services. I suspect from the warning that is produuces
when it is run there is at least one class of systemd services that
chkconfig --list will not report on.

Could you clarify the meaning of the warning produced when it is run?
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"A power so great, it can only be used for Good or Evil!" -- Firesign
Theatre, "The Giant Rat of Summatra"
================================================== =====================
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:19 PM
Aaron Konstam
 
Default Still some mysteie about FC15

On Tue, 2011-06-14 at 09:15 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:01:12 -0500, AK wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 2011-06-13 at 22:29 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
> > > > Well I was on vacation so I only installed FC15 today.
> > > > And some strange tings occurred.
> > > > 1, The wiki pages on systemd say that chkconfig --less
> > > > does not work. That is not true. I know its a wiki and I can make
> > > > changes. Well maybe sometime.
> > >
> > > --less? Do you mean --list? If so, the latter really isn't accurate.
> > > It even warns about that:
> >
> > I did mean chkconfig --list
> > That works on my machine. Are you saying it does not?
>
> Please link to the Wiki page you refer to or quote the relevant
> part you refer to. Alternatively, expand on what you want to know
> exactly. I've quoted a warning printed by chkconfig, and yes,
> chkconfig isn't accurate/reliable anymore with systemd. That's not
> specific to its --list option.

Refer to the response I made to Raul on this topic.

I will ask you the same quesstion I asked him


In the section headed "Does chkconfig command work with systemd?

The last line says: chkconfig --list doesn't list systemd services,
which is a slightly more obscure statement. Are not services like sshd
services systemd services. I suspect from the warning that is produces
when it is run there is at least one class of systemd services that
chkconfig --list will not report on.

Could you clarify the meaning of the warning produced when it is run?

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Love is what you've been through with somebody. -- James Thurber
================================================== =====================
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:24 PM
Tom Horsley
 
Default Still some mysteie about FC15

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 08:15:45 -0500
Aaron Konstam wrote:

> Could you clarify the meaning of the warning produced when it is run?

I don't know about the warning, but the really interesting thing is
that there is no equivalent of chkconfig --list for systemd :-(.

The closest you can get is apparently:

ls /etc/systemd/system/*.wants/*.service
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:34 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Still some mysteie about FC15

On 06/14/2011 06:45 PM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
> In the section headed "Does chkconfig command work with systemd?
>
> The last line says: chkconfig --list doesn't list systemd services,
> which is a slightly more obscure statement. Are not services like sshd
> services systemd services. I suspect from the warning that is produuces
> when it is run there is at least one class of systemd services that
> chkconfig --list will not report on.
>
> Could you clarify the meaning of the warning produced when it is run?

What is obscure about it? chkconfig will not list any systemd services
and sshd is still using sys v initscript

Rahul



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Old 06-14-2011, 01:38 PM
Michael Schwendt
 
Default Still some mysteie about FC15

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 08:15:45 -0500, AK wrote:

> In the section headed "Does chkconfig command work with systemd?
>
> The last line says: chkconfig --list doesn't list systemd services,
> which is a slightly more obscure statement. Are not services like sshd
> services systemd services. I suspect from the warning that is produuces
> when it is run there is at least one class of systemd services that
> chkconfig --list will not report on.
>
> Could you clarify the meaning of the warning produced when it is run?

Compare the output with e.g.

systemctl -t service --all

sshd and similar services [still] ship System V/LSB compatible init scripts,
whereas systemd knows about services beyond that, which are not accessible
with chkconfig.

There are also a few incompatibilities between chkconfig --list and/or --level
and systemd. http://bugz.fedoraproject.org/chkconfig
For example,

# runlevel
N 5
# chkconfig sshd on
# chkconfig --level 5 sshd off
# reboot

and systemd will start sshd nevertheless. A "chkconfig sshd off" would
have disabled the service for all runlevels, and systemd would have
accepted that.
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Old 06-14-2011, 06:51 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Still some mysteie about FC15

On 06/15/2011 12:22 AM, Joe Zeff wrote:
> The point of this long-winded message is, don't assume that something
> should be clear and obvious to everybody here just because it is for
> you. Remember, most of us don't have the depth of experience that you
> do, and we're grateful that you're willing to share it with us.

That wasn't my point. Was any part of the following Q&A actually
obscure to you?

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Systemd#Does_chkconfig_command_work_with_systemd.3 F

Rahul
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Old 06-14-2011, 06:52 PM
Joe Zeff
 
Default Still some mysteie about FC15

On 06/14/2011 06:34 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> What is obscure about it? chkconfig will not list any systemd services
> and sshd is still using sys v initscript

Raul, I'm sure that this is obvious to you because you've been involved
in the development of F15 and have been exposed to much more of the
internals than most people. However, you need to remember that the rest
of us mere mortals haven't, and that it's not exactly clear to us.

In this, I speak from experience. I did senior level tech support for
an ISP for about 7.5 years. After several years I found myself getting
aggravated more and more by the junior techs who constantly missed
things that I found obvious and trivial. Finally, the situation got so
severe that (as Terry Pratchett would put it) I *came out the other
side* and realized that the other techs simply didn't have the
experience to recognize what was going on in many cases, and I got less
aggravated and more willing to explain things to the juniors in the rare
cases when they were interested in learning. Alas, most of them were
content with simply reading off their cheat-sheets and passing the
caller off to somebody more experienced in the (all too often) case that
they'd picked the wrong one.

The point of this long-winded message is, don't assume that something
should be clear and obvious to everybody here just because it is for
you. Remember, most of us don't have the depth of experience that you
do, and we're grateful that you're willing to share it with us.
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