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Old 06-12-2011, 10:08 PM
Patrick Bartek
 
Default Adieu, Fedora

It's been a nice ride these past 7 years with Fedora as my primary OS, but it's time to move on. My current and future needs are for a support life measured in years, not months. And CentOS and Scientific Linux didn't fulfill my other requirements. Neither did the Rolling Release distros: At some point, support for older hardware must be dropped to make way for new, and the old system "breaks." I can't have that.

So, with the release of 15 (I'm still using 12), which would have traditionally been my next upgrade, my decision was finalized. GNOME 3 was really what did it. After using it for a while to get familiar with it, I decided I just didn't like it. And KDE is still a resource gluten--the primary reason I left it years ago. Considered XFCE and LXDE instead, but decided the best option was to abandon the Desktop GUI environment all-together in favor of a well-featured window manager, simple launch bar for most used apps, floating menus for the others, and a terminal or two. I don't really need all the other crap. Not even 3D.

My primary choice is Debian 6, 64-bit, and Openbox. I've been testing both in VirtualBox for a few months. So far, so good.

I'll still keep an eye on Fedora for old time's sake. And 12 will stay on the system as a back up. So, it's not exactly farewell, just . . .

Auf Wiedersehen,

B
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Old 06-12-2011, 10:36 PM
Andras Simon
 
Default Adieu, Fedora

On 6/13/11, Patrick Bartek <bartek047@yahoo.com> wrote:

[...]

> Considered XFCE and LXDE instead, but
> decided the best option was to abandon the Desktop GUI environment
> all-together in favor of a well-featured window manager, simple launch bar
> for most used apps, floating menus for the others, and a terminal or two. I
> don't really need all the other crap. Not even 3D.

Welcome to the club :-) I never understood what these desktop
environments give mankind that a window manager doesn't. But then I
never "launch" programs; they are either running all the time
(Firefox, Emacs, &c) or are started from the command line (mplayer,
xpdf, ...). (I'm nevertheless using Xfce on a netbook, because I was
too lazy to fight the system :-))

> My primary choice is Debian 6, 64-bit, and Openbox. I've been testing both
> in VirtualBox for a few months. So far, so good.

I think the difference between running a distro virtualized and on
your real computer is like the difference between dating someone and
marrying her :-) But I hope it turns out well for you!

Good luck,

Andras
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Old 06-12-2011, 11:07 PM
Digimer
 
Default Adieu, Fedora

On 06/12/2011 06:08 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> It's been a nice ride these past 7 years with Fedora as my primary OS, but it's time to move on. My current and future needs are for a support life measured in years, not months. And CentOS and Scientific Linux didn't fulfill my other requirements. Neither did the Rolling Release distros: At some point, support for older hardware must be dropped to make way for new, and the old system "breaks." I can't have that.
>
> So, with the release of 15 (I'm still using 12), which would have traditionally been my next upgrade, my decision was finalized. GNOME 3 was really what did it. After using it for a while to get familiar with it, I decided I just didn't like it. And KDE is still a resource gluten--the primary reason I left it years ago. Considered XFCE and LXDE instead, but decided the best option was to abandon the Desktop GUI environment all-together in favor of a well-featured window manager, simple launch bar for most used apps, floating menus for the others, and a terminal or two. I don't really need all the other crap. Not even 3D.
>
> My primary choice is Debian 6, 64-bit, and Openbox. I've been testing both in VirtualBox for a few months. So far, so good.
>
> I'll still keep an eye on Fedora for old time's sake. And 12 will stay on the system as a back up. So, it's not exactly farewell, just . . .
>
> Auf Wiedersehen,
>
> B

Every distro exists to fit a niche. That Fedora is not the one for your
needs is fine, and I hope Debian 6 works well for you. As a former
Debian/Ubuntu user now on CentOS/RHEL and Fedora, I've moved around, too.

The strength on Linux is the choice available to it's users.

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E-Mail: digimer@alteeve.com
Freenode handle: digimer
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"I feel confined, only free to expand myself within boundaries."
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Old 06-12-2011, 11:14 PM
Ed Greshko
 
Default Adieu, Fedora

On 06/13/2011 06:08 AM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> I'll still keep an eye on Fedora for old time's sake. And 12 will stay on the system as a back up. So, it's not exactly farewell, just . . .
>
> Auf Wiedersehen,

I've recently switched from briefs to boxers. Somehow I don't think
that is worthy of an announcement either. :-) :-)

Good luck to you.... FWIW, I did find that boxers still bunch up from
time to time too. :-) :-)
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Old 06-12-2011, 11:36 PM
Fernando Cassia
 
Default Adieu, Fedora

On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 19:08, Patrick Bartek <bartek047@yahoo.com> wrote:
> It's been a nice ride these past 7 years with Fedora as my primary OS, but it's time to move on.

This reminds me of OS/2 users on oS/2 maling list who often decided
that not only they had to change OS, they had to write a long tirade
telling others why they decided to leave, and why their once-favorite
OS was doomed.

As is sharing their grief with the rest of the community were of some
use for anyone.

I say: good riddance!

FC
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Old 06-12-2011, 11:38 PM
Fernando Cassia
 
Default Adieu, Fedora

On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 20:14, Ed Greshko <Ed.Greshko@greshko.com> wrote:
>
> I've recently switched from briefs to boxers. *Somehow I don't think
> that is worthy of an announcement either. * :-) :-)

Heh what a great alternative way to ay what I replied in another post.
"Good riddance, good luck, but most important: who cares?".


FC
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Old 06-12-2011, 11:51 PM
James McKenzie
 
Default Adieu, Fedora

On 6/12/11 4:36 PM, Fernando Cassia wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 19:08, Patrick Bartek<bartek047@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> It's been a nice ride these past 7 years with Fedora as my primary OS, but it's time to move on.
> This reminds me of OS/2 users on oS/2 maling list who often decided
> that not only they had to change OS, they had to write a long tirade
> telling others why they decided to leave, and why their once-favorite
> OS was doomed.
The funny thing is that OS/2 is still in use, it has not died and IBM no
longer has technical control over it. If IBM had not abandoned the SOHO
environment, I would still be using it today. Could not and still
cannot find anything as bullet proof. I ran a BBS on it that had an
uptime messured in YEARS. Cannot say that for Linux/UNIX/MacOSX.
However, I have found the desktop wars amusing to say the least.

James McKenzie

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Old 06-12-2011, 11:58 PM
inode0
 
Default Adieu, Fedora

On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Fernando Cassia <fcassia@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 20:14, Ed Greshko <Ed.Greshko@greshko.com> wrote:
>>
>> I've recently switched from briefs to boxers. *Somehow I don't think
>> that is worthy of an announcement either. * :-) :-)
>
> Heh what a great alternative way to ay what I replied in another post.
> "Good riddance, good luck, but most important: who cares?".
>

The people who create distributions should care. Both about who adopts
their distribution and why and about who abandons it and why.

John
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Old 06-13-2011, 12:07 AM
James McKenzie
 
Default Adieu, Fedora

On 6/12/11 3:36 PM, Andras Simon wrote:
> On 6/13/11, Patrick Bartek<bartek047@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> Considered XFCE and LXDE instead, but
>> decided the best option was to abandon the Desktop GUI environment
>> all-together in favor of a well-featured window manager, simple launch bar
>> for most used apps, floating menus for the others, and a terminal or two. I
>> don't really need all the other crap. Not even 3D.
> Welcome to the club :-) I never understood what these desktop
> environments give mankind that a window manager doesn't.
<Soapbox drug out of the corner, and James steps up on it>

Give you a wonderful clue. Look at DOS/Windows 3.1 and then look at
WindowsNT. That is what most users are looking for. They don't care
about the command line and really don't want to even mess with it. For
those of use 'smart' enough to figure our way around the CLI, we are
either considered:
1. Geniuses.
2. Snobs.
3. Arrogant bastards who want the days of the 'Green Door' to come back.

Most of the people that I work with are Computer Scientists or Computer
Engineers. We are constantly answering questions and most people
consider us either 1 or 2. However, if you go out and read the "other
Linuxes" forums you will find a group that is slowly but surely calling
us, with increasingly poor wording, number 3.

The thing is, either you embrace change and adapt to it or you will be
crushed. I'll give you a really good example that most of us live with
today: Airbags in your automobile. When they were introduced by
Mercedes Benz in their 1973 autos, they were considered a death device
and were actually banned from sale in the United States. Today, try
buying an auto, in most countries without one. Good luck. They are now
required in the United States for all passenger type vehicles. This is
the same with the desktop system. Either we can embrace and learn how
they work and how to work around them, or we can sit there and watch
what happens. I, for one, embrace a technology that gives people with
less skills the ability to use a superior operating system. Linux can
either be the OS/2 of the computing world or the replacement for
Microsoft's Windows products. Which do YOU want? I want the latter. I
want people to use, with ease, a vastly better OS. We, the community
have to be willing to assist those who want that goal. And remember, we
have variety. We can CHOOSE to use Gnome3, KDE 4, XFCE or a number of
frontends. If we want, we don't have to use ANY of them. That is
called convenience, and I like that.
<Soupbox off>
Folks, we can discuss this to the end. The decision has been made, for
us by others, that the desktop will move into the 21st Century. Our
thoughts, comments and other such are not even under consideration. In
other words, we are wasting our time even talking about it. The best
use of our time is to find and report problems that will affect those
who do not have the skills we do. We can choose to use other
desktop/windowing systems and be happy. All of the grumbling I've read
did not and cannot stop RedHat from adopting Gnome 3 or KDE 4 as the
primary desktop for Fedora and RHEL. That is and will remain a fact of
life. If you feel otherwise, that is your feeling/opinion.

Have a great life.

James McKenzie

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Old 06-13-2011, 12:20 AM
James McKenzie
 
Default Adieu, Fedora

On 6/12/11 4:58 PM, inode0 wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Fernando Cassia<fcassia@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 20:14, Ed Greshko<Ed.Greshko@greshko.com> wrote:
>>> I've recently switched from briefs to boxers. Somehow I don't think
>>> that is worthy of an announcement either. :-) :-)
>> Heh what a great alternative way to ay what I replied in another post.
>> "Good riddance, good luck, but most important: who cares?".
>>
> The people who create distributions should care. Both about who adopts
> their distribution and why and about who abandons it and why.
John:

Read my lengthy post. Most, if not all, Linux distributions are FREE.
If I abandon a distribution because they adopted a desktop that will
bring in 100 for 1, I really am not going to care why you left. If it
were more like 2 to 1 or 4 to 1, I might. The goal is to capture folks
who are tired of the claptrap and garbage from our competitors. We need
to make Linux as easy, if not easier to use than the other 'junk' out
there. That is the goal of the two major desktop projects. I for one
applaud their efforts. Remember they have to work around legal
requirements that we don't have to deal with. One day, I will install
CentOS 6 on one of the Macs that I have here and then continue
computing, which is what I like doing.

James McKenzie

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