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Old 06-09-2011, 05:50 PM
Kevin Martin
 
Default btrfs to be standard fs for Fedora 16?

>From what I've seen in fs comparisons, btrfs is the slowest fs out there (
http://www.ilsistemista.net/index.php/linux-a-unix/6-linux-filesystems-benchmarked-ext3-vs-ext4-vs-xfs-vs-btrfs.html as well as
others). Does it make sense that that is going to be the fs of choice for F16?

Am I missing something very obvious?

Kevin
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Old 06-10-2011, 12:31 AM
Patrick O'Callaghan
 
Default btrfs to be standard fs for Fedora 16?

On Thu, 2011-06-09 at 12:50 -0500, Kevin Martin wrote:
> >From what I've seen in fs comparisons, btrfs is the slowest fs out there (
> http://www.ilsistemista.net/index.php/linux-a-unix/6-linux-filesystems-benchmarked-ext3-vs-ext4-vs-xfs-vs-btrfs.html as well as
> others). Does it make sense that that is going to be the fs of choice for F16?
>
> Am I missing something very obvious?
>
> Kevin

You should take this up on the Test list, not here.

poc

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Old 06-10-2011, 01:59 AM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default btrfs to be standard fs for Fedora 16?

On 06/09/2011 11:20 PM, Kevin Martin wrote:
> >From what I've seen in fs comparisons, btrfs is the slowest fs out there (
> http://www.ilsistemista.net/index.php/linux-a-unix/6-linux-filesystems-benchmarked-ext3-vs-ext4-vs-xfs-vs-btrfs.html as well as
> others). Does it make sense that that is going to be the fs of choice for F16?
>
> Am I missing something very obvious?

A few things. That benchmark is about six months old and will be over
an year old by the time Fedora 16 gets released. There has been a lot
of development happening in between including performance improvements.
FESCo has a criteria for including Btrfs by default and if there isn't a
proper fsck, error handling etc, Fedora will postpone the move similar
to what happened with systemd in Fedora 14. I am not sure that website
has any history of publishing good benchmarks and we will have to take
into account as well.

http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-June/151973.html

Rahul
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Old 06-10-2011, 12:36 PM
Tim
 
Default btrfs to be standard fs for Fedora 16?

On Fri, 2011-06-10 at 07:29 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> FESCo has a criteria for including Btrfs by default and if there isn't
> a proper fsck, error handling etc, Fedora will postpone the move
> similar to what happened with systemd in Fedora 14.

Is there one for LVM, yet? Because I don't recall lack of error
correction programs preventing LVM being inflicted upon us.

--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I
read messages from the public lists.



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Old 06-10-2011, 01:17 PM
"Mikkel L. Ellertson"
 
Default btrfs to be standard fs for Fedora 16?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 06/10/2011 07:36 AM, Tim wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-06-10 at 07:29 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>> FESCo has a criteria for including Btrfs by default and if there isn't
>> a proper fsck, error handling etc, Fedora will postpone the move
>> similar to what happened with systemd in Fedora 14.
>
> Is there one for LVM, yet? Because I don't recall lack of error
> correction programs preventing LVM being inflicted upon us.
>
LVM is not a file system. It is more on the line of a partitioning
setup. You check the individual file systems contained in the LVM
partitions, not the partition. Part of this is that the LVM
partition may span more then one drive.

Mikkel
- --

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons,
for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!
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Old 06-10-2011, 04:27 PM
Tim
 
Default btrfs to be standard fs for Fedora 16?

Tim:
>> Is there one for LVM, yet? Because I don't recall lack of error
>> correction programs preventing LVM being inflicted upon us.

Mikkel L. Ellertson:
> LVM is not a file system. It is more on the line of a partitioning
> setup. You check the individual file systems contained in the LVM
> partitions, not the partition. Part of this is that the LVM
> partition may span more then one drive.

Let me put it this way, then: If you try to boot a system, and the
filesystem within the LVM is stuffed, are you going to be able to do a
rudimentary boot (ala runlevel 1) and fsck it to sort it out?

On a completely non LVM installation, if there was enough of the
filesystem around, you could do that. I don't recall that it was
possible if your system used LVM.

--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I
read messages from the public lists.



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Old 06-10-2011, 05:03 PM
"Mikkel L. Ellertson"
 
Default btrfs to be standard fs for Fedora 16?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 06/10/2011 11:27 AM, Tim wrote:
> Tim:
>>> Is there one for LVM, yet? Because I don't recall lack of error
>>> correction programs preventing LVM being inflicted upon us.
>
> Mikkel L. Ellertson:
>> LVM is not a file system. It is more on the line of a partitioning
>> setup. You check the individual file systems contained in the LVM
>> partitions, not the partition. Part of this is that the LVM
>> partition may span more then one drive.
>
> Let me put it this way, then: If you try to boot a system, and the
> filesystem within the LVM is stuffed, are you going to be able to do a
> rudimentary boot (ala runlevel 1) and fsck it to sort it out?
>
> On a completely non LVM installation, if there was enough of the
> filesystem around, you could do that. I don't recall that it was
> possible if your system used LVM.
>
Nope. It is equivalent to trying to boot a system with a hosed
partition table. You have to get out a rescue disk that understands
LVM. I believe you can use the install medium in the rescue mode to
do it, but I have never had to do it. I have only one system using
LVM, and I have not broken it yet. (Knock on wood)

I should probably mention that I am not a big LVM fan. But I have
been running Linux long enough that I have a fairly good idea on how
big I need each partition to be. I also tend to have more partitions
then the "average" user, and a large drive for things that do not
get changed when I update. (Music, movies, CD and DVD images, my
e-book collection, etc.)

Mikkel
- --

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons,
for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!
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Old 06-10-2011, 05:11 PM
JB
 
Default btrfs to be standard fs for Fedora 16?

Tim <ignored_mailbox <at> yahoo.com.au> writes:

> ...
> Let me put it this way, then: If you try to boot a system, and the
> filesystem within the LVM is stuffed, are you going to be able to do a
> rudimentary boot (ala runlevel 1) and fsck it to sort it out?
>
> On a completely non LVM installation, if there was enough of the
> filesystem around, you could do that. I don't recall that it was
> possible if your system used LVM.
>

It is called "Texas hedge", or "Hold it !", or "betting the ranch" :-) :-)

JB


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Old 06-10-2011, 07:52 PM
Greg Woods
 
Default btrfs to be standard fs for Fedora 16?

On Fri, 2011-06-10 at 12:03 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:

> I should probably mention that I am not a big LVM fan.

I am not a big fan of having LVM be the default on a home desktop or
laptop install. IMHO, in those cases it adds unneeded complexity. But it
has a lot of uses on big servers. Being able to keep some spare disk
space around and add it to whatever volume needs it (without having to
dump, repartition, and restore) has saved my butt several times. I also
like being able to use snapshots for backups; allows a clean backup to
be taken without having to take the machine out of service (but I found
out the hard way that snapshots only work if you have some free space
left in the volume group; if you have

--Greg



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Old 06-10-2011, 11:57 PM
Joel Rees
 
Default btrfs to be standard fs for Fedora 16?

On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 2:03 AM, Mikkel L. Ellertson
<mellertson@gmail.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 06/10/2011 11:27 AM, Tim wrote:
>> Tim:
>>>> Is there one for LVM, yet? *Because I don't recall lack of error
>>>> correction programs preventing LVM being inflicted upon us.
>>
>> Mikkel L. Ellertson:
>>> LVM is not a file system. It is more on the line of a partitioning
>>> setup. You check the individual file systems contained in the LVM
>>> partitions, not the partition. Part of this is that the LVM
>>> partition may span more then one drive.
>>
>> Let me put it this way, then: *If you try to boot a system, and the
>> filesystem within the LVM is stuffed, are you going to be able to do a
>> rudimentary boot (ala runlevel 1) and fsck it to sort it out?
>>
>> On a completely non LVM installation, if there was enough of the
>> filesystem around, you could do that. *I don't recall that it was
>> possible if your system used LVM.
>>
> Nope. It is equivalent to trying to boot a system with a hosed
> partition table. You have to get out a rescue disk that understands
> LVM. I believe you can use the install medium in the rescue mode to
> do it, but I have never had to do it. I have only one system using
> LVM, and I have not broken it yet. (Knock on wood)

For what it's worth, I've hosed my LVM more than once and fairly
quickly found the information I needed to read the backup tables or
manually point to the volumes.

It was a little scary the first time, and not something I want to do
every day, and things have improved since then.

I use LVM for two reasons, the primary one being that the DOS
partitioning scheme is so broken that it's hard to maintain two
Fedoras and a Debian (plus/minus a bsd or two) without using LVM.

I have other reasons not to be enthusiastic about this particular
news, specifically, neither grub nor grub2 working for me.

Joel Rees
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