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Bill Davidsen 05-28-2011 09:12 PM

Today's GNOME3 funny
 
I was looking at gnome3.org today, and their FAQ says that "The traditional
GNOME 2 desktop will not disappear overnight, however: releases of GNOME 2 will
continue to be supported by distributions for years to come." so clearly they
don't imagine everyone will drop all their software and retrain all their users
overnight.

Ubuntu doesn't see to have that thought, either.

I was looking for a way to run fc15 in a VM, which worked in the alpha and
hasn't (for me) since. The FAQ says that's the case, no VM has a powerful enough
video emulation to handle the worthless eye candy. The Virtualbox people say
much the same, but their spin is that the video could do the job but GNOME
insisted on using some direct to hardware stuff they don't off. I freely admit I
didn't spend a lot of time deciding anything other than both of them imply the
fault is with the other.

My fc13 machines are moving to RHEL6.0 or a similar distribution, I'll be able
to keep them secure for a while and see which way the wind blows.

--
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
"We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot
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Sam Varshavchik 05-28-2011 09:36 PM

Today's GNOME3 funny
 
Bill Davidsen writes:


I was looking at gnome3.org today, and their FAQ says that "The traditional
GNOME 2 desktop will not disappear overnight, however: releases of GNOME 2
will
continue to be supported by distributions for years to come." so clearly they


Oh?

Where exactly can I find my familiar gnome 2 desktop in this particular
distribution? I don't mean the fallback mode, because that's not it.


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Patrick O'Callaghan 05-28-2011 10:28 PM

Today's GNOME3 funny
 
On Sat, 2011-05-28 at 17:12 -0400, Bill Davidsen wrote:
> I was looking at gnome3.org today, and their FAQ says that "The traditional
> GNOME 2 desktop will not disappear overnight, however: releases of GNOME 2 will
> continue to be supported by distributions for years to come." so clearly they
> don't imagine everyone will drop all their software and retrain all their users
> overnight.
>
> Ubuntu doesn't see to have that thought, either.
>
> I was looking for a way to run fc15 in a VM, which worked in the alpha and
> hasn't (for me) since. The FAQ says that's the case, no VM has a powerful enough
> video emulation to handle the worthless eye candy. The Virtualbox people say
> much the same, but their spin is that the video could do the job but GNOME
> insisted on using some direct to hardware stuff they don't off. I freely admit I
> didn't spend a lot of time deciding anything other than both of them imply the
> fault is with the other.

I have F15 running in a VirtualBox VM under MacOS on my company laptop.
Gnome seems to be in "fall-back" mode as far as I can tell. I'm more of
a KDE user so I don't really know, but it is at least usable.

poc

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Rahul Sundaram 05-28-2011 11:11 PM

Today's GNOME3 funny
 
On 05/29/2011 03:06 AM, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
> Bill Davidsen writes:
>
>> I was looking at gnome3.org today, and their FAQ says that "The
>> traditional
>> GNOME 2 desktop will not disappear overnight, however: releases of
>> GNOME 2
>> will
>> continue to be supported by distributions for years to come." so
>> clearly they
>
> Oh?
>
> Where exactly can I find my familiar gnome 2 desktop in this
> particular distribution? I don't mean the fallback mode, because
> that's not it.
>

I don't think gnome3.org implies that distributions will continue to
include GNOME 2.x since obviously GNOME 2.x is not parallel installable
with GNOME 3.x and they can't make promises on behalf of distributions.
Some distributions, notably enterprise ones will continue to support
GNOME 2.x for years. RHEL 6 for instance, has a 7 to 10 year support
cycle.

Rahul
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Bill Davidsen 05-29-2011 01:52 PM

Today's GNOME3 funny
 
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> On Sat, 2011-05-28 at 17:12 -0400, Bill Davidsen wrote:
>> I was looking at gnome3.org today, and their FAQ says that "The traditional
>> GNOME 2 desktop will not disappear overnight, however: releases of GNOME 2 will
>> continue to be supported by distributions for years to come." so clearly they
>> don't imagine everyone will drop all their software and retrain all their users
>> overnight.
>>
>> Ubuntu doesn't see to have that thought, either.
>>
>> I was looking for a way to run fc15 in a VM, which worked in the alpha and
>> hasn't (for me) since. The FAQ says that's the case, no VM has a powerful enough
>> video emulation to handle the worthless eye candy. The Virtualbox people say
>> much the same, but their spin is that the video could do the job but GNOME
>> insisted on using some direct to hardware stuff they don't off. I freely admit I
>> didn't spend a lot of time deciding anything other than both of them imply the
>> fault is with the other.
>
> I have F15 running in a VirtualBox VM under MacOS on my company laptop.
> Gnome seems to be in "fall-back" mode as far as I can tell. I'm more of
> a KDE user so I don't really know, but it is at least usable.
>
Actually that's neither gnome-shell or GNOME2, but yet another user interface.
If it has a name other than fallback mode, I don't know it, and it's poorly
documented, as is appropriate for something which doesn't seem to be intended
for actual daily use.

--
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
"We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot
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Chris Kloiber 05-30-2011 05:49 AM

Today's GNOME3 funny
 
On 05/28/2011 05:12 PM, Bill Davidsen wrote:
> I was looking at gnome3.org today, and their FAQ says that "The traditional
> GNOME 2 desktop will not disappear overnight, however: releases of GNOME 2 will
> continue to be supported by distributions for years to come." so clearly they
> don't imagine everyone will drop all their software and retrain all their users
> overnight.
>
> Ubuntu doesn't see to have that thought, either.
>
> I was looking for a way to run fc15 in a VM, which worked in the alpha and
> hasn't (for me) since. The FAQ says that's the case, no VM has a powerful enough
> video emulation to handle the worthless eye candy. The Virtualbox people say
> much the same, but their spin is that the video could do the job but GNOME
> insisted on using some direct to hardware stuff they don't off. I freely admit I
> didn't spend a lot of time deciding anything other than both of them imply the
> fault is with the other.
>
> My fc13 machines are moving to RHEL6.0 or a similar distribution, I'll be able
> to keep them secure for a while and see which way the wind blows.
>
VirtualBox 4.0.8 does enough 3d emulation (after installing the client
tools) to start Gnome3.

I am having a problem though when I try to access the "System
Settings"/"System Info" icon. The window appears to open, but it's
completely white. If you dare click anywhere on anything else, (like the
"Application" link, the Clock, or your full name) the whole screen turns
white, and the font goes to hell. After that the whole desktop becomes
unusable. The VM is not hung though, as you can still Ctrl-Shift-F2 to a
console, log in as root, and "init 3 && init 5" to restart the desktop.
Too bad I need to access some settings in that dialog... Can any one
running F15 in the latest VirtualBox confirm this, if so I will bugzilla it.

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Misha Shnurapet 05-30-2011 07:20 AM

Today's GNOME3 funny
 
VMs don't have a working 3D support. I don't know why you keep trying.

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Marko Vojinovic 05-30-2011 09:54 AM

Today's GNOME3 funny
 
On Monday 30 May 2011 08:20:40 Misha Shnurapet wrote:
> VMs don't have a working 3D support. I don't know why you keep trying.

VirtualBox offers 3D support for the client system, up to the available
capabilities of the host system. This means that if you have good 3D video
accelerated drivers on your host system, you can make use of it from within
the client as well.

I remember seeing similar 3D support in VMware as well, last time I used it.
Don't know about KVM, QEMU, Xen, and others.

The 3D support is often labelled as experimental, not quite perfect in all
circumstances, but in general it does work. For example, I have a WinXP client
under VirtualBox on a F14 host. With the Fedora-provided open source 3D
drivers for my Intel graphics hardware, I am able to run and play Quake3 on
the WinXP guest. It works as fast as the linux version running natively on
F14.

That said, I remember that one needs to jump through hoops to enable it, at
least on VirtualBox. It isn't enabled by default (there is a checkbox in the
graphics settings that needs to be ticked), and the VBox-provided drivers for
the WinXP client need to be installed when the client is in safe-mode, if they
are to work. Or something like that, I don't remember exactly. But once this
is done, 3D video generally works in the client, most games work well, etc.

I am almost tempted to install F15 as a client, just to see all that fuss
about Gnome3 (and being a long-term KDE user, have a good laugh as well ;-) ).
I probably won't have time for that, however...

HTH, :-)
Marko

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Misha Shnurapet 05-30-2011 10:17 AM

Today's GNOME3 funny
 
30.05.2011, 18:54, "Marko Vojinovic" <vvmarko@gmail.com>:
> On Monday 30 May 2011 08:20:40 Misha Shnurapet wrote:
>
>> *VMs don't have a working 3D support. I don't know why you keep trying.
>
> VirtualBox offers 3D support for the client system, up to the available
> capabilities of the host system. This means that if you have good 3D video
> accelerated drivers on your host system, you can make use of it from within
> the client as well.
>
> I remember seeing similar 3D support in VMware as well, last time I used it.
> Don't know about KVM, QEMU, Xen, and others.
>
> The 3D support is often labelled as experimental, not quite perfect in all
> circumstances, but in general it does work. For example, I have a WinXP client
> under VirtualBox on a F14 host. With the Fedora-provided open source 3D
> drivers for my Intel graphics hardware, I am able to run and play Quake3 on
> the WinXP guest. It works as fast as the linux version running natively on
> F14.
>
> That said, I remember that one needs to jump through hoops to enable it, at
> least on VirtualBox. It isn't enabled by default (there is a checkbox in the
> graphics settings that needs to be ticked), and the VBox-provided drivers for
> the WinXP client need to be installed when the client is in safe-mode, if they
> are to work. Or something like that, I don't remember exactly. But once this
> is done, 3D video generally works in the client, most games work well, etc.

Agreed. It would mostly work.

> I am almost tempted to install F15 as a client, just to see all that fuss
> about Gnome3 (and being a long-term KDE user, have a good laugh as well ;-) ).
> I probably won't have time for that, however...

I have been using GNOME 3 on two different devices I own. There is no base for all that fuss really. :-)

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Best regards,
Misha Shnurapet, Fedora Project Contributor
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Shnurapet
shnurapet AT fedoraproject.org, GPG: 00217306
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Greg Woods 05-30-2011 05:33 PM

Today's GNOME3 funny
 
On Mon, 2011-05-30 at 01:49 -0400, Chris Kloiber wrote:

> VirtualBox 4.0.8 does enough 3d emulation (after installing the client
> tools) to start Gnome3.
>
> I am having a problem though when I try to access the "System
> Settings"/"System Info" icon. The window appears to open, but it's
> completely white. If you dare click anywhere on anything else, (like the
> "Application" link, the Clock, or your full name) the whole screen turns
> white, and the font goes to hell.

I can confirm both of these things. I do have an F15 VirtualBox guest
running with F14 as the host OS, and I can repeat this phenomenon with
the System Info. Very weird. CTRL-Alt-Backspace (sends you back to the
login screen) also works for recovery. I have yet to figure out how to
do a CTRL-ALT-F2 in a Vbox guest, as this normally sends the *host* OS
to the text console. Probably some Vbox setting we have different.
CTRL-Alt-Backspace can be sent to the guest from the Machine menu in
Vbox.

--Greg


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