FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Redhat > Fedora User

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 05-28-2011, 01:31 PM
Bruno Wolff III
 
Default Was inn tested for F15

On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 09:19:49 -0400,
Sam Varshavchik <mrsam@courier-mta.com> wrote:
> Has anyone tested inn in F15. Bug 708627 suggests that it never was.
>
> In addition to that bug, I think something keeps rm -rf-ing
> /var/run/news every time I reboot, which will keep inn broken even
> after this bug gets fixed. At least /var/run/news was missing after
> my first boot into F15, I fixed all off the above, but after the
> next reboot it was gone again.

/var/run is now a tmpfs so data there will be lost at each reboot.
--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
 
Old 05-28-2011, 06:49 PM
Sam Varshavchik
 
Default Was inn tested for F15

Bruno Wolff III writes:


On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 09:19:49 -0400,
Sam Varshavchik <mrsam@courier-mta.com> wrote:
> Has anyone tested inn in F15. Bug 708627 suggests that it never was.
>
> In addition to that bug, I think something keeps rm -rf-ing
> /var/run/news every time I reboot, which will keep inn broken even
> after this bug gets fixed. At least /var/run/news was missing after
> my first boot into F15, I fixed all off the above, but after the
> next reboot it was gone again.

/var/run is now a tmpfs so data there will be lost at each reboot.


Splendid. Aside from the fact that inn's startup script does not get invoked
correctly by initscripts, if you do invoke it correctly you also discover
that it expects /var/run/news to be there, otherwise it bombs.


--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
 
Old 05-28-2011, 07:15 PM
Joe Zeff
 
Default Was inn tested for F15

On 05/28/2011 06:31 AM, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> /var/run is now a tmpfs so data there will be lost at each reboot.

I was about to ask why, when something went <click!>. Programs that
need to make sure there's only one copy of them running (e.g., yum) use
/var/run for their lockfiles so cleaning it out at boot avoids having
programs refuse to run because of a stale lockfile from the last session.
--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
 
Old 05-29-2011, 02:42 AM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Was inn tested for F15

On 05/29/2011 12:19 AM, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
>
> Splendid. Aside from the fact that inn's startup script does not get
> invoked correctly by initscripts, if you do invoke it correctly you
> also discover that it expects /var/run/news to be there, otherwise it
> bombs.

Appears the maintainer hasn't been active in a while since all these
changes were well publicised ahead of time, guidelines published and a
lot of packages have been changed to create these directories on boot if
necessary. You can follow the guidelines listed at

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Policy_for_nonresponsive_package_maintainers

Rahul



--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
 
Old 05-29-2011, 03:35 AM
Tim
 
Default Was inn tested for F15

Bruno Wolff III:
>> /var/run is now a tmpfs so data there will be lost at each reboot.

Sam Varshavchik:
> Splendid. Aside from the fact that inn's startup script does not get invoked
> correctly by initscripts, if you do invoke it correctly you also discover
> that it expects /var/run/news to be there, otherwise it bombs.

Hmm, is it right or wrong for *anything* to expect the contents
of /var/run to remain after a reboot?

I would have expected /var/run should be volatile, like /tmp.

--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I
read messages from the public lists.



--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
 
Old 05-29-2011, 03:35 AM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Was inn tested for F15

On 05/29/2011 09:05 AM, Tim wrote:
>
> Hmm, is it right or wrong for *anything* to expect the contents
> of /var/run to remain after a reboot?
>
> I would have expected /var/run should be volatile, like /tmp.

Right but a change for Fedora 15 exposes this issue for software that
doesn't cope with it well

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/var-run-tmpfs

Rahul

--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
 
Old 05-29-2011, 02:19 PM
Bill Davidsen
 
Default Was inn tested for F15

Tim wrote:
> Bruno Wolff III:
>>> /var/run is now a tmpfs so data there will be lost at each reboot.
>
> Sam Varshavchik:
>> Splendid. Aside from the fact that inn's startup script does not get invoked
>> correctly by initscripts, if you do invoke it correctly you also discover
>> that it expects /var/run/news to be there, otherwise it bombs.
>
> Hmm, is it right or wrong for *anything* to expect the contents
> of /var/run to remain after a reboot?
>
There is a benefit to cleaning out the lock files, but there is a definite
problem to cleaning out everything, since the directory structure is needed to
support the lockfiles. Having the program create the structure is possible, but:
- it moves complexity from the install to the program
- it means more code needs to be added to check that the app is actually
installed at all
- it is one more distribution sensitive thing to add to config

Personal opinion: if shutdown saved the directory structure but not the
lockfiles, and startup repopulated /var/run when it was created, then
maintainers wouldn't have to be hacking multiple applications to add code which
seems not to be needed in some/most/all other distributions.

Someone obviously didn't like the "least work" approach.

> I would have expected /var/run should be volatile, like /tmp.
>
/tmp isn't volatile. At least not in the sense that everything is removed over
every boot. At least not in Fedora <15, haven't looked to see if a reboot loses
all work in progress there.

--
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
"We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot
--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
 
Old 05-29-2011, 02:45 PM
Sam Varshavchik
 
Default Was inn tested for F15

Bill Davidsen writes:


Tim wrote:
> Bruno Wolff III:
>>> /var/run is now a tmpfs so data there will be lost at each reboot.
>
> Sam Varshavchik:
>> Splendid. Aside from the fact that inn's startup script does not get
invoked

>> correctly by initscripts, if you do invoke it correctly you also discover
>> that it expects /var/run/news to be there, otherwise it bombs.
>
> Hmm, is it right or wrong for *anything* to expect the contents
> of /var/run to remain after a reboot?
>
There is a benefit to cleaning out the lock files, but there is a definite
problem to cleaning out everything, since the directory structure is needed
to
support the lockfiles. Having the program create the structure is possible,
but:

- it moves complexity from the install to the program


Only if "program" includes the packaged initscript. If the main app expects
to see something persistent in /var/run, but its state does not really
persist across reboots and there's not a lot of stuff there, the fix seems
to be easily doable in the initscript. In this case, the initscript is fixed
fairly easily by mkdiring /var/run/news itself, and setting the right
environment variable to keep /etc/rc.d/init.d/function from pulling the rug
out from under my feet.


Having the initscript recreate what the app expects in /var/run seems to be
the obvious solution that does not require patching upstream source.
Although I have sufficient spare cycles now, I anticipate that I won't in
the future, and I don't want to take inn myself just to have to abandon it
later.


--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
 
Old 05-29-2011, 02:47 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Was inn tested for F15

On 05/29/2011 07:49 PM, Bill Davidsen wrote:
> There is a benefit to cleaning out the lock files, but there is a definite
> problem to cleaning out everything, since the directory structure is needed to
> support the lockfiles. Having the program create the structure is possible, but:
> - it moves complexity from the install to the program
> - it means more code needs to be added to check that the app is actually
> installed at all
> - it is one more distribution sensitive thing to add to config

It doesn't have to be any of this as referenced from the feature
proposal. Just in case, you didn't read it.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:Tmpfiles.d

Rahul
--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
 
Old 05-31-2011, 08:39 PM
Bill Davidsen
 
Default Was inn tested for F15

Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> On 05/29/2011 07:49 PM, Bill Davidsen wrote:
>> There is a benefit to cleaning out the lock files, but there is a definite
>> problem to cleaning out everything, since the directory structure is needed to
>> support the lockfiles. Having the program create the structure is possible, but:
>> - it moves complexity from the install to the program
>> - it means more code needs to be added to check that the app is actually
>> installed at all
>> - it is one more distribution sensitive thing to add to config
>
> It doesn't have to be any of this as referenced from the feature
> proposal. Just in case, you didn't read it.
>
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:Tmpfiles.d
>
The page you note has a big warning that it doesn't work in EPEL and FC<15. How
does that address the distribution dependent feature issue?

Fedora has limited manpower. By save/restore of the directory structure no one
has to go into the original package and change anything. Less work for
maintainers, reduce or eliminate the possibility that something will not get
modified until it breaks, etc.

A proposed solution which makes it easy to do unnecessary work on every
application is not an optimal solution compared to "we changed it, we will avoid
breaking applications and make it work."


--
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
"We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot
--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 10:30 PM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org