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Old 03-30-2011, 12:08 AM
JD
 
Default X server in F14 horribly slow

After upgrading to F14, switching from one workspace to another is
excruciatingly slow!!
I am a gnome user.
Can this be attributed to Gnome or to the X server
or to the ATI Radeon driver?

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Old 03-30-2011, 01:28 AM
Joe Zeff
 
Default X server in F14 horribly slow

On 03/29/2011 05:08 PM, JD wrote:
> Can this be attributed to Gnome or to the X server
> or to the ATI Radeon driver?

I'm using F 14 and Gnome and see no problems even though my mobo's maxed
out at 1G RAM. Probably the driver.
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:43 AM
JD
 
Default X server in F14 horribly slow

On 03/29/2011 06:28 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 03/29/2011 05:08 PM, JD wrote:
>> Can this be attributed to Gnome or to the X server
>> or to the ATI Radeon driver?
> I'm using F 14 and Gnome and see no problems even though my mobo's maxed
> out at 1G RAM. Probably the driver.
Well, it is taking up to 3.5 seconds for the windows
in a workspace to get populated and fully visible
when I switch to that workspace.
It used to be almost instantaneous in F13.
I have 2GB ram, and 12 GB swap space, but
very few apps running. Most of the time I have
6 workspaces, each with a separate FireFox window,
and up to 4 4 workspaces, each with a gnome terminal.
and 1 workspace with Thunderbird.
Hardly any space is used in swap. To wit:

# swapon -s
Filename Type Size Used Priority
/dev/sda3 partition 4200992 17540 -1
/dev/sdb2 partition 8385924 0 -2

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Old 03-30-2011, 03:08 AM
"Kevin J. Cummings"
 
Default X server in F14 horribly slow

On 03/29/2011 10:43 PM, JD wrote:
> On 03/29/2011 06:28 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
>> On 03/29/2011 05:08 PM, JD wrote:
>>> Can this be attributed to Gnome or to the X server
>>> or to the ATI Radeon driver?
>> I'm using F 14 and Gnome and see no problems even though my mobo's maxed
>> out at 1G RAM. Probably the driver.
> Well, it is taking up to 3.5 seconds for the windows
> in a workspace to get populated and fully visible
> when I switch to that workspace.

What is the load avg on the system in question? I have seen similar on
my system when the load avg starts to climb (anything > 5 is really
bad). But, when he load avg is low, redraws should be good.

> It used to be almost instantaneous in F13.
> I have 2GB ram, and 12 GB swap space, but
> very few apps running. Most of the time I have
> 6 workspaces, each with a separate FireFox window,

Firefox is a resource *PIG*. Since it is one application, I'd look into
how much memory it is using (both in ram and in swap), and whether or
not any of its windows are doing anything (like displaying FLASH or
active JAVA applets).

> and up to 4 4 workspaces, each with a gnome terminal.
> and 1 workspace with Thunderbird.

How big are your mailboxes? Thunderbird can also slow you down if you
have large mailboxes.

> Hardly any space is used in swap. To wit:
>
> # swapon -s
> Filename Type Size Used Priority
> /dev/sda3 partition 4200992 17540 -1
> /dev/sdb2 partition 8385924 0 -2

What does your performance look like after you close *every* firefox
window and thunderbird? [make sure firefox is no longer running.]

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Old 03-30-2011, 04:10 AM
JD
 
Default X server in F14 horribly slow

On 03/29/2011 08:08 PM, Kevin J. Cummings wrote:
> On 03/29/2011 10:43 PM, JD wrote:
>> On 03/29/2011 06:28 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
>>> On 03/29/2011 05:08 PM, JD wrote:
>>>> Can this be attributed to Gnome or to the X server
>>>> or to the ATI Radeon driver?
>>> I'm using F 14 and Gnome and see no problems even though my mobo's maxed
>>> out at 1G RAM. Probably the driver.
>> Well, it is taking up to 3.5 seconds for the windows
>> in a workspace to get populated and fully visible
>> when I switch to that workspace.
> What is the load avg on the system in question? I have seen similar on
> my system when the load avg starts to climb (anything> 5 is really
> bad). But, when he load avg is low, redraws should be good.
>
>> It used to be almost instantaneous in F13.
>> I have 2GB ram, and 12 GB swap space, but
>> very few apps running. Most of the time I have
>> 6 workspaces, each with a separate FireFox window,
> Firefox is a resource *PIG*. Since it is one application, I'd look into
> how much memory it is using (both in ram and in swap), and whether or
> not any of its windows are doing anything (like displaying FLASH or
> active JAVA applets).
>
>> and up to 4 4 workspaces, each with a gnome terminal.
>> and 1 workspace with Thunderbird.
> How big are your mailboxes? Thunderbird can also slow you down if you
> have large mailboxes.
>
>> Hardly any space is used in swap. To wit:
>>
>> # swapon -s
>> Filename Type Size Used Priority
>> /dev/sda3 partition 4200992 17540 -1
>> /dev/sdb2 partition 8385924 0 -2
> What does your performance look like after you close *every* firefox
> window and thunderbird? [make sure firefox is no longer running.]
>
Here's my load average as reported by top:

top - 21:02:44 up 1 day, 6:41, 5 users, load average: 0.17, 0.30, 0.73
The 5 users are myself: the main Gnome login session,
and 4 Gnome-terminal login shells (I always start the gnome terminal
as a login shell (-ls) )
Guy, it is not the system load. Under fc13, even when I had multiple
kernel builds going, 6 FF windows, each with 3 to 4 tabs, and Thunderbird
running, switching workspaces was snappy.

Something is terribly wrong with Xserver or Gnome, or Ati Radeon Driver,
or all 3.
What's worse: it will be exceedingly difficult for me to roll back to fc13.
Isn't progress wonderful!
I hope an Xorg developer sees this!!


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Old 03-30-2011, 06:49 AM
"Kevin J. Cummings"
 
Default X server in F14 horribly slow

On 03/30/2011 12:10 AM, JD wrote:
> On 03/29/2011 08:08 PM, Kevin J. Cummings wrote:
>> On 03/29/2011 10:43 PM, JD wrote:
>>> On 03/29/2011 06:28 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
>>>> On 03/29/2011 05:08 PM, JD wrote:
>>>>> Can this be attributed to Gnome or to the X server
>>>>> or to the ATI Radeon driver?
>>>> I'm using F 14 and Gnome and see no problems even though my mobo's maxed
>>>> out at 1G RAM. Probably the driver.
>>> Well, it is taking up to 3.5 seconds for the windows
>>> in a workspace to get populated and fully visible
>>> when I switch to that workspace.
>> What is the load avg on the system in question? I have seen similar on
>> my system when the load avg starts to climb (anything> 5 is really
>> bad). But, when he load avg is low, redraws should be good.
>>
>>> It used to be almost instantaneous in F13.
>>> I have 2GB ram, and 12 GB swap space, but
>>> very few apps running. Most of the time I have
>>> 6 workspaces, each with a separate FireFox window,
>> Firefox is a resource *PIG*. Since it is one application, I'd look into
>> how much memory it is using (both in ram and in swap), and whether or
>> not any of its windows are doing anything (like displaying FLASH or
>> active JAVA applets).
>>
>>> and up to 4 4 workspaces, each with a gnome terminal.
>>> and 1 workspace with Thunderbird.
>> How big are your mailboxes? Thunderbird can also slow you down if you
>> have large mailboxes.
>>
>>> Hardly any space is used in swap. To wit:
>>>
>>> # swapon -s
>>> Filename Type Size Used Priority
>>> /dev/sda3 partition 4200992 17540 -1
>>> /dev/sdb2 partition 8385924 0 -2
>> What does your performance look like after you close *every* firefox
>> window and thunderbird? [make sure firefox is no longer running.]
>>
> Here's my load average as reported by top:
>
> top - 21:02:44 up 1 day, 6:41, 5 users, load average: 0.17, 0.30, 0.73
> The 5 users are myself: the main Gnome login session,
> and 4 Gnome-terminal login shells (I always start the gnome terminal
> as a login shell (-ls) )
> Guy, it is not the system load. Under fc13, even when I had multiple
> kernel builds going, 6 FF windows, each with 3 to 4 tabs, and Thunderbird
> running, switching workspaces was snappy.
>
> Something is terribly wrong with Xserver or Gnome, or Ati Radeon Driver,
> or all 3.

On your hardware. I am also using F14 on my laptop (x86_64) with the
ATI driver, and I only see the problems you see under high system load,
which easily happens with thunderbird open (quite a few *large*
mailboxes) and a *lot* of tabs in 1 firefox window. Especially when
letting a FLASH window or two run for a couple of hours....

Since I closed firefox (I now use Google chrome sparingly, and close it
when I'm done), I'm running *much* better. My load avg hasn't shot up
yet (and it should have started doing so already based on my hightly
cron jobs!). I'll know more tomorrow morning after I suspend it an
restart it.

> What's worse: it will be exceedingly difficult for me to roll back to fc13.
> Isn't progress wonderful!
> I hope an Xorg developer sees this!!

I don't think they'll be interested unless you can prove its your xorg
driver.

Just another thought, how long since you rebooted last? Sometimes xorg
updates can require a reboot to work right. When was the last xorg
update you installed?

I suspect you have something mis-configured, but I have no clue as to
what right now.

--
Kevin J. Cummings
kjchome@verizon.net
cummings@kjchome.homeip.net
cummings@kjc386.framingham.ma.us
Registered Linux User #1232 (http://counter.li.org)
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Old 03-30-2011, 05:04 PM
Genes MailLists
 
Default X server in F14 horribly slow

On 03/30/2011 02:49 AM, Kevin J. Cummings wrote:
> On 03/30/2011 12:10 AM, JD wrote:
>> On 03/29/2011 08:08 PM, Kevin J. Cummings wrote:
>>> On 03/29/2011 10:43 PM, JD wrote:
>>>> On 03/29/2011 06:28 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
>>>>> On 03/29/2011 05:08 PM, JD wrote:


I concur that both firefox and TB can be memory pigs. Firefox has had
mem leaks forever ... I gave up a long time ago and switched to google
chrome (firefox 4 has caught up speed-wise finally but I still prefer
chrome)

That aside - for TB please make sure you check a couple of configs.

(1) turn of GLODA it is an IO pig with a terrible design, which can
kill your machine as well.

Prefs->Advanced -> General

make sure the Enable Global Search and Destroy thing is unchecked.

(2) Also by default, TB caches local copies of everything - you may
want to play with those settings (offline usage).


gene/



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Old 03-30-2011, 05:15 PM
JD
 
Default X server in F14 horribly slow

On 03/29/2011 11:49 PM, Kevin J. Cummings wrote:
> On 03/30/2011 12:10 AM, JD wrote:
>> On 03/29/2011 08:08 PM, Kevin J. Cummings wrote:
>>> On 03/29/2011 10:43 PM, JD wrote:
>>>> On 03/29/2011 06:28 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
>>>>> On 03/29/2011 05:08 PM, JD wrote:
>>>>>> Can this be attributed to Gnome or to the X server
>>>>>> or to the ATI Radeon driver?
>>>>> I'm using F 14 and Gnome and see no problems even though my mobo's maxed
>>>>> out at 1G RAM. Probably the driver.
>>>> Well, it is taking up to 3.5 seconds for the windows
>>>> in a workspace to get populated and fully visible
>>>> when I switch to that workspace.
>>> What is the load avg on the system in question? I have seen similar on
>>> my system when the load avg starts to climb (anything> 5 is really
>>> bad). But, when he load avg is low, redraws should be good.
>>>
>>>> It used to be almost instantaneous in F13.
>>>> I have 2GB ram, and 12 GB swap space, but
>>>> very few apps running. Most of the time I have
>>>> 6 workspaces, each with a separate FireFox window,
>>> Firefox is a resource *PIG*. Since it is one application, I'd look into
>>> how much memory it is using (both in ram and in swap), and whether or
>>> not any of its windows are doing anything (like displaying FLASH or
>>> active JAVA applets).
>>>
>>>> and up to 4 4 workspaces, each with a gnome terminal.
>>>> and 1 workspace with Thunderbird.
>>> How big are your mailboxes? Thunderbird can also slow you down if you
>>> have large mailboxes.
>>>
>>>> Hardly any space is used in swap. To wit:
>>>>
>>>> # swapon -s
>>>> Filename Type Size Used Priority
>>>> /dev/sda3 partition 4200992 17540 -1
>>>> /dev/sdb2 partition 8385924 0 -2
>>> What does your performance look like after you close *every* firefox
>>> window and thunderbird? [make sure firefox is no longer running.]
>>>
>> Here's my load average as reported by top:
>>
>> top - 21:02:44 up 1 day, 6:41, 5 users, load average: 0.17, 0.30, 0.73
>> The 5 users are myself: the main Gnome login session,
>> and 4 Gnome-terminal login shells (I always start the gnome terminal
>> as a login shell (-ls) )
>> Guy, it is not the system load. Under fc13, even when I had multiple
>> kernel builds going, 6 FF windows, each with 3 to 4 tabs, and Thunderbird
>> running, switching workspaces was snappy.
>>
>> Something is terribly wrong with Xserver or Gnome, or Ati Radeon Driver,
>> or all 3.
> On your hardware. I am also using F14 on my laptop (x86_64) with the
> ATI driver, and I only see the problems you see under high system load,
> which easily happens with thunderbird open (quite a few *large*
> mailboxes) and a *lot* of tabs in 1 firefox window. Especially when
> letting a FLASH window or two run for a couple of hours....
It is happening right now, and here is the system load:
top - 10:07:19 up 1 day, 19:46, 4 users, load average: 0.28, 0.30, 0.16

It has been like this (i.e. the delayed workspace switch) as soon
as I loged in 1 day and 19 hours ago!!

> Since I closed firefox (I now use Google chrome sparingly, and close it
> when I'm done), I'm running *much* better. My load avg hasn't shot up
> yet (and it should have started doing so already based on my hightly
> cron jobs!). I'll know more tomorrow morning after I suspend it an
> restart it.
>
Makes no difference here. Right now, I have no firefox running.
And thunderbird's cpu load is too small to be shown in the terminal
window in full screen mode (98x31 - I have to use large fonts).
>> What's worse: it will be exceedingly difficult for me to roll back to fc13.
>> Isn't progress wonderful!
>> I hope an Xorg developer sees this!!
> I don't think they'll be interested unless you can prove its your xorg
> driver.
>
But how can I prove it? Is there a way to instrument the
Xorg driver to leave a timing trail in a large circular buffer
for the workspace switch events? and then dump the buffer
to a file after N many events?

> Just another thought, how long since you rebooted last? Sometimes xorg
> updates can require a reboot to work right. When was the last xorg
> update you installed?
See above. Xorg got upgraded to fc14 about 1 day and
22 hours ago.
> I suspect you have something mis-configured, but I have no clue as to
> what right now.
But I did not change any configuration between fc13 and fc14.


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Old 03-30-2011, 05:39 PM
"Kevin J. Cummings"
 
Default X server in F14 horribly slow

On 03/30/2011 01:15 PM, JD wrote:
>> I suspect you have something mis-configured, but I have no clue as to
>> what right now.
> But I did not change any configuration between fc13 and fc14.

Nor did I, but I had *lot's* of problems initially with my working
F12/F13 configuration after I switched to F14. Mostly due to changes in
the ati driver.

1) I used to have to turn off KMS in order for suspend to work right.

With F14, I had to not disable it in order to prevent a whole list of
video problems, including text consoles being corrupt, X hanging
completely when it started using the ati driver (I had to use vesa to
even boot up using UMS). I was finally convinced that by enabling KMS,
things would start working again, and they did, but there was nothing in
the upgrade that suggested doing so was the right thing to do.

2) I had all sorts of problems with the xorg configuration file. I had
a *very* complicated one because I had changed it continually since FC6.
Once I removed most of it, things vastly improved. Its probably a good
idea anyways since the advent of the /etc/x11/conf.d stuff. YMMV

So, it might me a good idea to list any anomalies with your
configuration, from kernel boot parameters, to xorg.conf stuff so that
we can see if you are doing anything that might now be considered
problematic. Also, if you could re-state what your ATI hardware is,
that could be helpful as well. Is this a desktop or laptop?

--
Kevin J. Cummings
kjchome@verizon.net
cummings@kjchome.homeip.net
cummings@kjc386.framingham.ma.us
Registered Linux User #1232 (http://counter.li.org)
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Old 03-30-2011, 05:58 PM
JD
 
Default X server in F14 horribly slow

On 03/30/2011 10:39 AM, Kevin J. Cummings wrote:
> On 03/30/2011 01:15 PM, JD wrote:
>>> I suspect you have something mis-configured, but I have no clue as to
>>> what right now.
>> But I did not change any configuration between fc13 and fc14.
> Nor did I, but I had *lot's* of problems initially with my working
> F12/F13 configuration after I switched to F14. Mostly due to changes in
> the ati driver.
>
> 1) I used to have to turn off KMS in order for suspend to work right.
>
> With F14, I had to not disable it in order to prevent a whole list of
> video problems, including text consoles being corrupt, X hanging
> completely when it started using the ati driver (I had to use vesa to
> even boot up using UMS). I was finally convinced that by enabling KMS,
> things would start working again, and they did, but there was nothing in
> the upgrade that suggested doing so was the right thing to do.

What is KMS and how do I enable it?

> 2) I had all sorts of problems with the xorg configuration file. I had
> a *very* complicated one because I had changed it continually since FC6.
> Once I removed most of it, things vastly improved. Its probably a good
> idea anyways since the advent of the /etc/x11/conf.d stuff. YMMV

/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d only contains 00-system-setup-keyboard.conf

(/etc/X11/xorg.conf), I do not see KMS in there at all. How would I
enable it?

> So, it might me a good idea to list any anomalies with your
> configuration, from kernel boot parameters, to xorg.conf stuff so that
> we can see if you are doing anything that might now be considered
> problematic. Also, if you could re-state what your ATI hardware is,
> that could be helpful as well. Is this a desktop or laptop?
>
From lspci:
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV350 [Mobility
Radeon 9600 M10]

From /boot/grub/grub.conf:

title Fedora (2.6.35.6-45.fc14.i686)
root (hd0,1)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.35.6-45.fc14.i686 ro
root=UUID=99c4a1b1-99c2-40e6-8d2c-44bba67ad7df nomodeset
SYSFONT=latarcyrheb-sun16 LANG=en_US.UTF-8 KEYTABLE=us
initrd /boot/initramfs-2.6.35.6-45.fc14.i686.img

And finally /etc/X11/xorg.conf
# ls -l /etc/X11/xorg.conf
-rw-r--r--. 1 skroot root 4978 Mar 27 18:07 /etc/X11/xorg.conf

As you can see from the date, it was touched during the upgrade to fc14.

# cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf
Section "ServerLayout"
Identifier "X.org Configured"
Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0
InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer"
InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
EndSection

Section "Files"
ModulePath "/usr/lib/xorg/modules"
FontPath "catalogue:/etc/X11/fontpath.d"
FontPath "built-ins"
EndSection

Section "Module"
Load "record"
Load "extmod"
Load "dri2"
Load "dbe"
Load "glx"
Load "dri"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "Keyboard0"
Driver "kbd"
Option "Protocol" "Standard"
Option "XkbLayout" "us"
Option "XkbRules" "xfree86"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "Mouse0"
Driver "mouse"
Option "Protocol" "auto"
Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5 6 7"
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
Identifier "Monitor0"
VendorName "Monitor Vendor"
ModelName "Monitor Model"
HorizSync 24.0 - 85.0
VertRefresh 48.0 - 76.0
EndSection

Section "Device"
### Available Driver options are:-
### Values: <i>: integer, <f>: float, <bool>: "True"/"False",
### <string>: "String", <freq>: "<f> Hz/kHz/MHz"
### [arg]: arg optional
#Option "NoAccel" # [<bool>]
#Option "SWcursor" # [<bool>]
#Option "Dac6Bit" # [<bool>]
#Option "Dac8Bit" # [<bool>]
#Option "BusType" # [<str>]
#Option "CPPIOMode" # [<bool>]
#Option "CPusecTimeout" # <i>
#Option "AGPMode" # <i>
#Option "AGPFastWrite" # [<bool>]
#Option "AGPSize" # <i>
#Option "GARTSize" # <i>
#Option "RingSize" # <i>
#Option "BufferSize" # <i>
#Option "EnableDepthMoves" # [<bool>]
#Option "EnablePageFlip" # [<bool>]
#Option "NoBackBuffer" # [<bool>]
#Option "DMAForXv" # [<bool>]
#Option "FBTexPercent" # <i>
#Option "DepthBits" # <i>
#Option "PCIAPERSize" # <i>
#Option "AccelDFS" # [<bool>]
#Option "IgnoreEDID" # [<bool>]
#Option "CustomEDID" # [<str>]
#Option "DisplayPriority" # [<str>]
#Option "PanelSize" # [<str>]
#Option "ForceMinDotClock" # <freq>
#Option "ColorTiling" # [<bool>]
#Option "VideoKey" # <i>
#Option "RageTheatreCrystal" # <i>
#Option "RageTheatreTunerPort" # <i>
#Option "RageTheatreCompositePort" # <i>
#Option "RageTheatreSVideoPort" # <i>
#Option "TunerType" # <i>
#Option "RageTheatreMicrocPath" # <str>
#Option "RageTheatreMicrocType" # <str>
#Option "ScalerWidth" # <i>
#Option "RenderAccel" # [<bool>]
#Option "SubPixelOrder" # [<str>]
#Option "ShowCache" # [<bool>]
#Option "ClockGating" # [<bool>]
#Option "VGAAccess" # [<bool>]
#Option "ReverseDDC" # [<bool>]
#Option "LVDSProbePLL" # [<bool>]
#Option "AccelMethod" # <str>
#Option "DRI" # [<bool>]
#Option "ConnectorTable" # <str>
#Option "DefaultConnectorTable" # [<bool>]
#Option "DefaultTMDSPLL" # [<bool>]
#Option "TVDACLoadDetect" # [<bool>]
#Option "ForceTVOut" # [<bool>]
#Option "TVStandard" # <str>
#Option "IgnoreLidStatus" # [<bool>]
#Option "DefaultTVDACAdj" # [<bool>]
#Option "Int10" # [<bool>]
#Option "EXAVSync" # [<bool>]
#Option "ATOMTVOut" # [<bool>]
#Option "R4xxATOM" # [<bool>]
#Option "ForceLowPowerMode" # [<bool>]
#Option "DynamicPM" # [<bool>]
#Option "NewPLL" # [<bool>]
#Option "ZaphodHeads" # <str>
Identifier "Card0"
Driver "radeon"
VendorName "ATI Technologies Inc"
BoardName "RV350 [Mobility Radeon 9600 M10]"
BusID "PCI:1:0:0"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
Identifier "Screen0"
Device "Card0"
Monitor "Monitor0"
SubSection "Display"
Viewport 0 0
Depth 1
EndSubSection
SubSection "Display"
Viewport 0 0
Depth 4
EndSubSection
SubSection "Display"
Viewport 0 0
Depth 8
EndSubSection
SubSection "Display"
Viewport 0 0
Depth 15
EndSubSection
SubSection "Display"
Viewport 0 0
Depth 16
EndSubSection
SubSection "Display"
Viewport 0 0
Depth 24
EndSubSection
EndSection


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