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Old 03-21-2011, 09:04 PM
Marko Vojinovic
 
Default Direction of Fedora desktop manager Gnome, related to complaints in OT morons thread

On Monday 21 March 2011 21:19:16 Vaclav Mocek wrote:
> On 03/21/2011 06:19 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
> > On 03/21/2011 10:16 AM, stan wrote:
> >> And it
> >> begs the question of*why* people might be deserting Fedora.
> >
> > No it doesn't; it *ASKS* the question. "Begging the question" is a
> > logical fallacy. Please stop using that term like an illiterate moron,
> > even if it is common usage. Just because the common herd uses it
> > doesn't make it right and to those of us who know what it means it makes
> > you sound like an ID10T.
>
> From my Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary (2008):
>
> Idiom "beg the question"
>
> 1. to make somebody want to ask a question that has not yet been answered
> "All of which begs the question as to who will fund the project."
>
> 2. to talk about something as if it were definitely true, even though it
> might not be
> "These assumptions beg the question that children learn languages
> more easily than adults."
>
>
> I am confused; it is an idiom, which is a part of Standard [British]
> English and the previous usage seems to be correct.

No need to be confused :-) . The idiom is (as you found out) completely ok and
Stan used it properly.

It's just that Joe Zeff apparently has a bad day today. ;-) Or maybe he has
something personal against Stan and uses a public list to pass on a couple of
personal insults. Or maybe he considers all people who use British English a
common herd of illiterate morons who sound like ID10Ts to people who prefer
some non-British dialect of English. Or maybe something else... ;-)

Simply put, this situation basically begs the question why Joe Zeff has a
problem with the usage of "beg the question". ;-) But all this is getting too
OT...

:-)
Marko

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Old 03-22-2011, 08:54 AM
Colin Paul Adams
 
Default Direction of Fedora desktop manager Gnome, related to complaints in OT morons thread

>>>>> "Andrew" == Andrew Haley <aph@redhat.com> writes:

Andrew> On 21/03/11 21:19, Vaclav Mocek wrote:
>>
Andrew> Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary really should warn
Andrew> learners that the first usage, although common, is
Andrew> technically incorrect.

There's no such thing as technical correctness when it comes to (human)
languages.
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Old 03-22-2011, 01:38 PM
Timothy Murphy
 
Default Direction of Fedora desktop manager Gnome, related to complaints in OT morons thread

Colin Paul Adams wrote:

> There's no such thing as technical correctness when it comes to (human)
> languages.

That may be true of English, but is it true of all languages?
The Academie Francaise tries to tell the world what is correct in French;
I don't know how many people listen to them.
I imagine that during the unifications of Germany and Italy
the governments took a fairly strong line on grammar.
And what about China?
I guess the push to Mandarin comes with fairly strong sanctions.
I saw the other day that the government there
is trying to ban the use of English words.

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e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
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s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

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Old 03-22-2011, 01:43 PM
Colin Paul Adams
 
Default Direction of Fedora desktop manager Gnome, related to complaints in OT morons thread

>>>>> "Timothy" == Timothy Murphy <gayleard@eircom.net> writes:

Timothy> Colin Paul Adams wrote:
>> There's no such thing as technical correctness when it comes to
>> (human) languages.

Timothy> That may be true of English, but is it true of all
Timothy> languages? The Academie Francaise tries to tell the world
Timothy> what is correct in French; I don't know how many people
Timothy> listen to them.

There is nothing technical in such correctness. That's official
correctness.
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