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Old 02-16-2011, 01:10 PM
JB
 
Default WiFi: why not a diagram showing access points?

Timothy Murphy <gayleard <at> eircom.net> writes:

> ...

Use NetworkManager to tell you more about connection state.
NetworkManager (8) - network management daemon
Turn on debugging.

JB




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Old 02-16-2011, 01:12 PM
Robert Moskowitz
 
Default WiFi: why not a diagram showing access points?

On 02/15/2011 05:04 PM, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> I'm having terrible problems with my modem/router at the moment.
> The WiFi connection on my Thinkpad laptop drops every 10 minutes or so.
> I have to restart the network service to get the connection back.
>
> I'm not sure what exactly wakes the modem/router up when I do this?
> I presume some packet my WiFi driver sends has this effect?
>
> I haven't found anything similar with NetworkManager;
> when I restart the NetworkManager service it just says it is re-starting,
> but I'm still not connected.
>
> Windows XP is even worse, as the same thing happens there
> and I don't know of any way to re-start the network.
>
> At least, there is a way with Lenovo's ThinkVantage tools,
> which offer a crude map showing visible access points;
> and if you click on an access point it tries to connect to that.
>
> This seems a great idea to me.
> Under Fedora, "iwlist scan" lists the access points that are within range;
> surely it wouldn't take a guru much time to convert this into a map,
> and add an option to click on an access point to connect to it?
>
> I'm not sure, incidentally, what the position of the AP on the map conveys.
> The nearer points correspond to stronger signals, I think,
> but I don't know if the position on the circle of that diameter means,
> if anything.
>
> The wireless device on my present Thinkpad T60 laptop is
> Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 3945ABG, with the iwl3945 driver.
>
> If anyone can throw any light on my problem, I would be eternally grateful.
> I assumed the problem was in the outside line to the modem,
> but my ISP assures me the line is perfect.
>
> I tried using another modem (Billion), but it needs a password
> and the password my ISP sent me does not seem to work.
> (It is their modem.)

I work on the IEEE 802.11 standards, so know what follows from working
closely with the engineers that build the products. I am a major
contributor to 802.11i, and am now working on 802.11ai. I am a security
protocol wonk, but am quite conversant with MAC issues, though only know
how to filter PHY talk...

A VERY common problem with WiFi is channel selection. If 2 APs have
overlapping coverage and on the same channel, this can cause a station
to drop its connection.

You need to use the discovery tools to see what channels are active in
your coverage area. Then you need to work with your neighbors so that
you are not stepping on each other.

Each country has its own specific allowed channels and with 802.11j (or
was that 11h? ARGH!) we got smart and it is now table driven. 2.4Ghz has
wider coverage, slower speeds, and fewer channels than 5.4Ghz that has
more channels, smaller coverage, and higher speeds. Choose your poison.

Many users just use the default channel and never change it and are
always complaining about lost connections.


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Old 02-16-2011, 01:28 PM
fred smith
 
Default WiFi: why not a diagram showing access points?

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 09:12:56AM -0500, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> On 02/15/2011 05:04 PM, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> > I'm having terrible problems with my modem/router at the moment.
> > The WiFi connection on my Thinkpad laptop drops every 10 minutes or so.
> > I have to restart the network service to get the connection back.
> >
Given all the other comments that have been made regarding channel
selection, etc., etc., etc., let me throw out another suggestion that
MIGHT allow you to simply bypass all those issues:

you could use a second wireless router: hardwire its input port to
the (an) output port on the modem/router you've got. configure your
"new" router to use dhcp, so it should "just work" when talking to
the vendor-provided router. configure YOUR "new" router to provide
services you need (firewall, etc.), channel selection, etc. If the
current problem(s) is(are) due to misconfiguration of the wireless
part of the modem/router you've got, this may allow you to simply
ignore the problems and set up wireless that works for you.

kind of a hack, but it may help you.

<snip>

--
---- Fred Smith -- fredex@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us -----------------------------
"And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father,
Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government there will be no end. He
will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding
it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever."
------------------------------- Isaiah 9:7 (niv) ------------------------------
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Old 02-16-2011, 01:47 PM
Timothy Murphy
 
Default WiFi: why not a diagram showing access points?

Aaron Konstam wrote:

>> But what is relevant to Fedora, I think, is the curious reaction
>> to a temporarily dropped connection,
>> which seems to differ between the network and NetworkManager services,
>> which in turn differ considerably from behaviour under Windows XP.
>> (I have to keep this option in place because the online Help service -
>> Alice te Aiuta - requires one to be using Internet Explorer at some
>> points.)

> As an aside, there is an add-on called: Default User Agent
> that if installed in Firefox on Fedora allows the Firefox to act as
> Internet Explorer.

Thanks, I'll look at that.
Though I suspect Telecom Italia would see what I was doing,
and tell me that Linux is not supported ...


--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

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Old 02-16-2011, 01:52 PM
Timothy Murphy
 
Default WiFi: why not a diagram showing access points?

fred smith wrote:

> you could use a second wireless router: hardwire its input port to
> the (an) output port on the modem/router you've got. configure your
> "new" router to use dhcp, so it should "just work" when talking to
> the vendor-provided router. configure YOUR "new" router to provide
> services you need (firewall, etc.), channel selection, etc. If the
> current problem(s) is(are) due to misconfiguration of the wireless
> part of the modem/router you've got, this may allow you to simply
> ignore the problems and set up wireless that works for you.

That's more or less what I plan to do,
if I can find the password so I can use my Billion modem.
I have a LinkSys WRT54GL in place if I can get the Billion working.

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Timothy Murphy
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

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Old 02-16-2011, 01:54 PM
Timothy Murphy
 
Default WiFi: why not a diagram showing access points?

Robert Moskowitz wrote:

> A VERY common problem with WiFi is channel selection. If 2 APs have
> overlapping coverage and on the same channel, this can cause a station
> to drop its connection.

Thanks for the suggestion.
I'll try changing the channel.

But I'm not in a built-up area.
I do see one other (hidden) network, but it is quite weak.


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Timothy Murphy
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

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Old 02-16-2011, 01:59 PM
Robert Moskowitz
 
Default WiFi: why not a diagram showing access points?

On 02/16/2011 09:28 AM, fred smith wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 09:12:56AM -0500, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>> On 02/15/2011 05:04 PM, Timothy Murphy wrote:
>>> I'm having terrible problems with my modem/router at the moment.
>>> The WiFi connection on my Thinkpad laptop drops every 10 minutes or so.
>>> I have to restart the network service to get the connection back.
>>>
> Given all the other comments that have been made regarding channel
> selection, etc., etc., etc., let me throw out another suggestion that
> MIGHT allow you to simply bypass all those issues:
>
> you could use a second wireless router:

Yet another AP fighting over limited channel availablity.

> hardwire its input port to
> the (an) output port on the modem/router you've got. configure your
> "new" router to use dhcp, so it should "just work" when talking to
> the vendor-provided router. configure YOUR "new" router to provide
> services you need (firewall, etc.), channel selection, etc. If the
> current problem(s) is(are) due to misconfiguration of the wireless
> part of the modem/router you've got, this may allow you to simply
> ignore the problems and set up wireless that works for you.
>
> kind of a hack, but it may help you.
>
> <snip>
>
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:04 PM
Patrick O'Callaghan
 
Default WiFi: why not a diagram showing access points?

On Wed, 2011-02-16 at 15:54 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>
> > A VERY common problem with WiFi is channel selection. If 2 APs have
> > overlapping coverage and on the same channel, this can cause a station
> > to drop its connection.
>
> Thanks for the suggestion.
> I'll try changing the channel.
>
> But I'm not in a built-up area.
> I do see one other (hidden) network, but it is quite weak.

As I said earlier, you can get interference from non-Wifi sources,
particularly 2.4GHz cordless phones. Changing the channel is easy and
may be all you need.

poc

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Old 02-16-2011, 06:42 PM
JB
 
Default WiFi: why not a diagram showing access points?

JB <jb.1234abcd <at> gmail.com> writes:

> ...

So, are you still in the mood of making human sacrifices ? :-)

Have you thought about your modem/router sending "keep alive" messages that
will time out in 10 min and disconnect you if not answered (line not busy) ?

JB


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Old 02-16-2011, 11:53 PM
Tim
 
Default WiFi: why not a diagram showing access points?

On Wed, 2011-02-16 at 09:59 -0500, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> Yet another AP fighting over limited channel availablity.

In which case, you could try removing the offending AP's antenna, or put
it inside a tin box. That'll probably take it sufficiently off-air.

Ever been annoyed by visitors with mobile phones? Keep a metal biscuit
tin handy to seal them into. ;-)

--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I
read messages from the public lists.



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