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Old 02-11-2011, 08:11 PM
Outway
 
Default Suggestion: Replace List by Newsgroup

I don't see in what way a mailing list is superior to a newsgroup. But I
do see several advantages of a newsgroup:

* Clear thread structure (collapsable trees in standard news readers)
* No filtering on reader's side necessary
* Inappropriate messages can be removed after the fact (by a moderator)
* Own messages can be cacelled by sender in case of error
* Subscribing and unsubscribing is easier for a reader

A newsgroup is no more complicated to set up from a reader point of view
than mailing list access. No exotic software is needed, the newsgroup
can also be web interfaced.

Is there a specific reason why the fedoraproject chose to use a mailing
list instead of a newsgroup?

Regards,
outway
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Old 02-11-2011, 08:14 PM
Frank Cox
 
Default Suggestion: Replace List by Newsgroup

On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:11:34 +0100
Outway wrote:

> Is there a specific reason why the fedoraproject chose to use a mailing
> list instead of a newsgroup?

Many ISP's no longer provide NNTP access as part of their services. Mine, for
example, stopped providing a newsserver just about exactly a year ago today.

While it is obviously possible to purchase access from third parties
(Supernews, etc) it would be an additional monthly cost.

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Old 02-11-2011, 08:30 PM
Mark Eggers
 
Default Suggestion: Replace List by Newsgroup

On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:11:34 +0100, Outway wrote:

> Is there a specific reason why the fedoraproject chose to use a mailing
> list instead of a newsgroup?

You could read the mailing list from a list to newsgroup service like
gmane.

1. Subscribe to the list
2. Set it so that you don't receive mail from the list
3. Read and post from a newsgroup interface

. . . just my two cents.

/mde/

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Old 02-11-2011, 08:30 PM
Robert Nichols
 
Default Suggestion: Replace List by Newsgroup

On 02/11/2011 03:11 PM, Outway wrote:
> I don't see in what way a mailing list is superior to a newsgroup. But I
> do see several advantages of a newsgroup:
>
> * Clear thread structure (collapsable trees in standard news readers)
> * No filtering on reader's side necessary
> * Inappropriate messages can be removed after the fact (by a moderator)
> * Own messages can be cacelled by sender in case of error
> * Subscribing and unsubscribing is easier for a reader
>
> A newsgroup is no more complicated to set up from a reader point of view
> than mailing list access. No exotic software is needed, the newsgroup
> can also be web interfaced.

Just aim your newsreader at news.gmane.org and subscribe to
gname.linux.redhat.fedora.general . Web interface to the many mailing
lists gatewayed through Gmane is available at http://www.gmane.org .

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Old 02-11-2011, 08:46 PM
Hiisi
 
Default Suggestion: Replace List by Newsgroup

pe, 2011-02-11 kello 15:30 -0600, Robert Nichols kirjoitti:
> Just aim your newsreader at news.gmane.org and subscribe to
> gname.linux.redhat.fedora.general . Web interface to the many mailing
> lists gatewayed through Gmane is available at http://www.gmane.org .
>
>

This probably should be documented somewhere on mail-list subscription
page.
Just my 0.02 rubles.
--
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and take over the (computing) world from the grassroots.
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Old 02-11-2011, 08:55 PM
Aaron Konstam
 
Default Suggestion: Replace List by Newsgroup

On Fri, 2011-02-11 at 21:30 +0000, Mark Eggers wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:11:34 +0100, Outway wrote:
>
> > Is there a specific reason why the fedoraproject chose to use a mailing
> > list instead of a newsgroup?
>
> You could read the mailing list from a list to newsgroup service like
> gmane.
>
> 1. Subscribe to the list
> 2. Set it so that you don't receive mail from the list
> 3. Read and post from a newsgroup interface
>
> . . . just my two cents.
>
> /mde/
>

Except I can't find gmane in the Fedora repositories.
--
================================================== =====================
Remember, God could only create the world in 6 days because he didn't
have an established user base.
================================================== =====================
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Old 02-11-2011, 09:14 PM
Sam Sharpe
 
Default Suggestion: Replace List by Newsgroup

On 11 February 2011 21:55, Aaron Konstam <akonstam@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-02-11 at 21:30 +0000, Mark Eggers wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:11:34 +0100, Outway wrote:
>>
>> > Is there a specific reason why the fedoraproject chose to use a mailing
>> > list instead of a newsgroup?
>>
>> You could read the mailing list from a list to newsgroup service like
>> gmane.
>>
>> 1. Subscribe to the list
>> 2. Set it so that you don't receive mail from the list
>> 3. Read and post from a newsgroup interface
>>
>> . . . just my two cents.
>>
>> /mde/
>>
>
> Except I can't find gmane in the Fedora repositories.

It's not primarily a program, it's a maillist-newsgroup gateway service:

http://gmane.org/

You can use any NNTP capable reader to subscribe to the groups on
gmane by pointing that reader to news.gmane.org


--
Sam
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:58 AM
Tim
 
Default Suggestion: Replace List by Newsgroup

On Fri, 2011-02-11 at 22:11 +0100, Outway wrote:
> I don't see in what way a mailing list is superior to a newsgroup. But I
> do see several advantages of a newsgroup:
>
> * Clear thread structure (collapsable trees in standard news readers)

Well, actually, that's also possible with decent mail clients. Crappy
ones can't, and postings from crappy ones disrupt the threading for
everyone else (for news and email).

You didn't mention bandwidth saving: You download a list of headers, of
what's become available since your last look, but you only download the
actual body of message when you go to read it. i.e. If there's 2,000
messages one day, and you only want to read 2 of them, they're the only
ones you'd fetch.

Nor: Never receive spam in your personal mail, since you don't have to
expose your email address when posting to a news server. Some servers
will accept no address, others insist on one (but you can use a
blackhole address that you don't check for mail).

> A newsgroup is no more complicated to set up from a reader point of view
> than mailing list access. No exotic software is needed, the newsgroup
> can also be web interfaced.

In the past it could be a bit of a pain, if you found that you needed to
go to more than one news server for all of your groups. But more
clients are around that handle multiple news servers, and quite well.

In general, I have preferred news to mailing lists, though it's been a
long while since I bothered.

--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I
read messages from the public lists.



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Old 02-12-2011, 04:01 PM
Patrick O'Callaghan
 
Default Suggestion: Replace List by Newsgroup

On Sat, 2011-02-12 at 23:28 +1030, Tim wrote:
> You didn't mention bandwidth saving: You download a list of headers,
> of
> what's become available since your last look, but you only download
> the
> actual body of message when you go to read it. i.e. If there's 2,000
> messages one day, and you only want to read 2 of them, they're the
> only
> ones you'd fetch.

You can do the same with decent IMAP client.

poc

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Old 02-12-2011, 07:42 PM
g
 
Default Suggestion: Replace List by Newsgroup

On 02/11/2011 09:11 PM, Outway wrote:
> I don't see in what way a mailing list is superior to a newsgroup.
> But I do see several advantages of a newsgroup:

please spec your system.

> * Clear thread structure (collapsable trees in standard news readers)

thunderbird client, ability 'on site', faster recall / access.

> * No filtering on reader's side necessary

depends on what 'filtering' is.

i prefer *full control* of all input of others, in what ever;

'tech.support.list.net' | 'x-header:' | 'text/plain'
'subject:' | 'body' | 'attachment' | 'sort to' | 'from:'.

not wade thru what has been put on web pages or sent 'headers' and
not be able to delete a 'ravel' i do not want in thread.

not wait for 'body' to load. especially if i am paying for time.

news group feeds do not permit 'freedom of speech',
or 'freedom view' of *what other subscribers* write.

do 'newsgroup searches' run as well as an 'email list' search?

does 'newsgroup' recover a crash or lockup as well as 'email list'?

who has to reload everything?

> * Inappropriate messages can be removed after the fact (by a moderator)

any intelligent reader can decide his own moderating of email if reader
has knowledge of email client.

> * Own messages can be cacelled by sender in case of error

newsserver uses a 'delayed spool'?

sender has 'cancel send' 'window' to 'remove from spool' before "relay"?

> * Subscribing and unsubscribing is easier for a reader

no problem getting here. no problem dropping unwanted.

all with email client.

> A newsgroup is no more complicated to set up from a reader point of view
> than mailing list access. No exotic software is needed, the newsgroup
> can also be web interfaced.

i do not recall anyone saying that it is/was.

thunderbird's "tree" structure allows equal ability between both
email list and newsgroup. newsgroup will not let you filter delete
from thread what is not sent from your system.

> Is there a specific reason why the fedoraproject chose to use a mailing
> list instead of a newsgroup?

fedora does it right. mozilla does their part w/RFC design compliant.

with email list i can store what i want, when i want,
for how every long i want, with ability to delete what i want,
with out wait of censored information.

___

mainboard intel(?) 1.3g cpu, 32 bit, 300m0 fbuss, 320 mem.

scientific linux 5.5 r.2.6.18-194.32.1.el5 #1 SMP
Tue Jan 4 12:58:04 EST 2011 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux

thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (20101210)

Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US;
rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101209
Red Hat/3.6-2.el5 Firefox/3.6.13

at&t aDSL: copper, 24k680' line terminate.
___

*long story short*

leave as email list, unfiltered. let me filter what i want filtered.

add moderated newsgroup
add moderated / censored web page

with redhat/fedoraproject, mozilla, all things are possible.

in closing, if you want newsgroup and think it can be done,
submit your qualifications to proper authority.

put together what you want, present for a demonstration, test run.


more power to you. have at it.


--

peace out.

tc.hago,

g
.

****
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