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Old 02-04-2011, 09:54 PM
Nikolaus Rath
 
Default Installation Impressions

Hello,

I'm a long term Debian and Ubuntu user and just tried to install Fedora
14. I want to share a couple of impressions:

I don't have a CD writer at hand, so I downloaded the netinstall image.
Following the instructions in the installation guide, I copied vmlinuz
and initrd.img from the .iso and bootet into it using my existing grub2
setup.

The first surprise came when the installer asked me where to install
from. I downloaded the network image, so I thought it'd be obvious that
I wanted to install from the network.

Lacking any URL or NFS server address, I figured that maybe the
installer is asking for the netinstall image itself? That'd be weird,
but seemed the most reasonable explanation.

Unfortunately, I am not able to use the downloaded disk image because
at this point the installer doesn't have LVM support. Brr.

Rebooted, copied the network image into NFS share, booted into the
installer again.

Now the installer reports that it can't mount the share. This is
obviously wrong, because if I try to specify the filename of the
netimage rather than just the directory, the installer complains that
this isn't the right file.

Grmbl. Reboot, read the documentation again. Ok, apparently I should be
able to manually enter the URL of a Fedora mirror. So I grab I piece of
paper and write down

http://mirror.cc.columbia.edu/pub/linux/fedora/releases/14/Fedora/x86_86/os/

Reboot, back into the installer. I am wondering why the hell I have to
enter this. The installer knows what I'm trying to install, and it should be
able to figure out where the closest mirror is.

Crash. I forgot that I downloaded the netboot image for i386. Why isn't
the installer warning me that install.img that it downloaded doesn't
work with the booted kernel?

Reboot, typed the correct address. Now I'm in a graphical mode that
knows LVM.

I'm warned about the installer not being able to update my existing
installation, but there is no existing Fedora installation. Well,
whatever.

Now the installer asks for the password of my LUKS encrypted swap
partition. Unfortunately the password is chosen at random on every boot.
It gives a really scary error message that it will not be able to use
this storage device which doesn't seem appropriate to me.

I chose manual partitioning. The installer asks me for the LUKS password
again and gives a scary error again. Now I'm trying to use the swap
partition for Fedora as well. I double click on it, and select "format
as swap", "encrypted". Doesn't seem to have any effect, there is no
indication that Fedora will actually use the device, and when I'm
reopening the dialog then my settings are gone.

Alright, so I'll do without swap for now. Next thing the installer
complains that I cannot put my root partition into LVM2. This works just
fine with Grub2, and isn't Fedora supposed to be cutting edge? Anyway,
so I try to create a primary /boot partition instead.

There is 128 MB of free space. I tell the installer to use all the space
that's available. It claims that there is not enough space left.

At this point I just got too annoyed. Am I just extremely unlucky or is
a Fedora installation always that painful?


Best,


-Nikolaus

--
»Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

PGP fingerprint: 5B93 61F8 4EA2 E279 ABF6 02CF A9AD B7F8 AE4E 425C
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Old 02-05-2011, 03:19 PM
Thomas Paine
 
Default Installation Impressions

Honestly fedora is going to give you more trouble. I would install centos if you want an rpm based install. It will save you headache when you get to the pulse audio issues if you stay away from fedora.


You can also use Ubuntu 10.10 which I am currently using.


If you want to get fedora to install download the live USB Creator and install from a stick. Then yum update to get current.

On 2011-02-05 11:13 AM, "Nikolaus Rath" <Nikolaus@rath.org> wrote:> Hello,
>
> I'm a long term Debian and Ubuntu user and just tried to install Fedora

> 14. I want to share a couple of impressions:
>
> I don't have a CD writer at hand, so I downloaded the netinstall image.
> Following the instructions in the installation guide, I copied vmlinuz

> and initrd.img from the .iso and bootet into it using my existing grub2
> setup.
>
> The first surprise came when the installer asked me where to install
> from. I downloaded the network image, so I thought it'd be obvious that

> I wanted to install from the network.
>
> Lacking any URL or NFS server address, I figured that maybe the
> installer is asking for the netinstall image itself? That'd be weird,
> but seemed the most reasonable explanation.

>
> Unfortunately, I am not able to use the downloaded disk image because
> at this point the installer doesn't have LVM support. Brr.
>
> Rebooted, copied the network image into NFS share, booted into the

> installer again.
>
> Now the installer reports that it can't mount the share. This is
> obviously wrong, because if I try to specify the filename of the
> netimage rather than just the directory, the installer complains that

> this isn't the right file.
>
> Grmbl. Reboot, read the documentation again. Ok, apparently I should be
> able to manually enter the URL of a Fedora mirror. So I grab I piece of
> paper and write down

>
> http://mirror.cc.columbia.edu/pub/linux/fedora/releases/14/Fedora/x86_86/os/
>
> Reboot, back into the installer. I am wondering why the hell I have to

> enter this. The installer knows what I'm trying to install, and it should be
> able to figure out where the closest mirror is.
>
> Crash. I forgot that I downloaded the netboot image for i386. Why isn't

> the installer warning me that install.img that it downloaded doesn't
> work with the booted kernel?
>
> Reboot, typed the correct address. Now I'm in a graphical mode that
> knows LVM.

>
> I'm warned about the installer not being able to update my existing
> installation, but there is no existing Fedora installation. Well,
> whatever.
>
> Now the installer asks for the password of my LUKS encrypted swap

> partition. Unfortunately the password is chosen at random on every boot.
> It gives a really scary error message that it will not be able to use
> this storage device which doesn't seem appropriate to me.

>
> I chose manual partitioning. The installer asks me for the LUKS password
> again and gives a scary error again. Now I'm trying to use the swap
> partition for Fedora as well. I double click on it, and select "format

> as swap", "encrypted". Doesn't seem to have any effect, there is no
> indication that Fedora will actually use the device, and when I'm
> reopening the dialog then my settings are gone.

>
> Alright, so I'll do without swap for now. Next thing the installer
> complains that I cannot put my root partition into LVM2. This works just
> fine with Grub2, and isn't Fedora supposed to be cutting edge? Anyway,

> so I try to create a primary /boot partition instead.
>
> There is 128 MB of free space. I tell the installer to use all the space
> that's available. It claims that there is not enough space left.

>
> At this point I just got too annoyed. Am I just extremely unlucky or is
> a Fedora installation always that painful?
>
>
> Best,
>
>
> -Nikolaus
>
> --

> »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«
>
> PGP fingerprint: 5B93 61F8 4EA2 E279 ABF6 02CF A9AD B7F8 AE4E 425C
> --
> users mailing list
> users@lists.fedoraproject.org

> To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines


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Old 02-05-2011, 04:07 PM
Ranjan Maitra
 
Default Installation Impressions

On Sat, 5 Feb 2011 10:19:03 -0600 Thomas Paine <painethom@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Honestly fedora is going to give you more trouble. I would install centos if you want an rpm based install. It will save you headache when you get to the pulse audio issues if you stay away from fedora.


I don;t know about that. I have never had trouble with Fedora
installs from 1 to 14, except when my HW was very new (iwl4965)
about two years ago. I have had some minor trouble with ubuntu. Fedora
is a leading-edge distribution and you get what you bargain for.

> You can also use Ubuntu 10.10 which I am currently using.
>
> If you want to get fedora to install download the live USB Creator and install from a stick. Then yum update to get current.

This (update to get current) is true even for a network install
(unfortunately), even though it does not need to be.

Really, with regard to distributions, to each his/her own. My wife
prefers and uses Ubuntu: I have stuck with Fedora.

Ranjan


>
> On 2011-02-05 11:13 AM, "Nikolaus Rath" <Nikolaus@rath.org<mailto:Nikolaus@rath.org>> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm a long term Debian and Ubuntu user and just tried to install Fedora
> > 14. I want to share a couple of impressions:
> >
> > I don't have a CD writer at hand, so I downloaded the netinstall image.
> > Following the instructions in the installation guide, I copied vmlinuz
> > and initrd.img from the .iso and bootet into it using my existing grub2
> > setup.
> >
> > The first surprise came when the installer asked me where to install
> > from. I downloaded the network image, so I thought it'd be obvious that
> > I wanted to install from the network.
> >
> > Lacking any URL or NFS server address, I figured that maybe the
> > installer is asking for the netinstall image itself? That'd be weird,
> > but seemed the most reasonable explanation.
> >
> > Unfortunately, I am not able to use the downloaded disk image because
> > at this point the installer doesn't have LVM support. Brr.
> >
> > Rebooted, copied the network image into NFS share, booted into the
> > installer again.
> >
> > Now the installer reports that it can't mount the share. This is
> > obviously wrong, because if I try to specify the filename of the
> > netimage rather than just the directory, the installer complains that
> > this isn't the right file.
> >
> > Grmbl. Reboot, read the documentation again. Ok, apparently I should be
> > able to manually enter the URL of a Fedora mirror. So I grab I piece of
> > paper and write down
> >
> > http://mirror.cc.columbia.edu/pub/linux/fedora/releases/14/Fedora/x86_86/os/
> >
> > Reboot, back into the installer. I am wondering why the hell I have to
> > enter this. The installer knows what I'm trying to install, and it should be
> > able to figure out where the closest mirror is.
> >
> > Crash. I forgot that I downloaded the netboot image for i386. Why isn't
> > the installer warning me that install.img that it downloaded doesn't
> > work with the booted kernel?
> >
> > Reboot, typed the correct address. Now I'm in a graphical mode that
> > knows LVM.
> >
> > I'm warned about the installer not being able to update my existing
> > installation, but there is no existing Fedora installation. Well,
> > whatever.
> >
> > Now the installer asks for the password of my LUKS encrypted swap
> > partition. Unfortunately the password is chosen at random on every boot.
> > It gives a really scary error message that it will not be able to use
> > this storage device which doesn't seem appropriate to me.
> >
> > I chose manual partitioning. The installer asks me for the LUKS password
> > again and gives a scary error again. Now I'm trying to use the swap
> > partition for Fedora as well. I double click on it, and select "format
> > as swap", "encrypted". Doesn't seem to have any effect, there is no
> > indication that Fedora will actually use the device, and when I'm
> > reopening the dialog then my settings are gone.
> >
> > Alright, so I'll do without swap for now. Next thing the installer
> > complains that I cannot put my root partition into LVM2. This works just
> > fine with Grub2, and isn't Fedora supposed to be cutting edge? Anyway,
> > so I try to create a primary /boot partition instead.
> >
> > There is 128 MB of free space. I tell the installer to use all the space
> > that's available. It claims that there is not enough space left.
> >
> > At this point I just got too annoyed. Am I just extremely unlucky or is
> > a Fedora installation always that painful?
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> >
> > -Nikolaus
> >
> > --
> > »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«
> >
> > PGP fingerprint: 5B93 61F8 4EA2 E279 ABF6 02CF A9AD B7F8 AE4E 425C
> > --
> > users mailing list
> > users@lists.fedoraproject.org<mailto:users@lists.f edoraproject.org>
> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> > Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
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Old 02-05-2011, 04:39 PM
suvayu ali
 
Default Installation Impressions

I don't know about your other issues, but I'll try to answer the ones below.

On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Nikolaus Rath <Nikolaus@rath.org> wrote:
> Alright, so I'll do without swap for now. Next thing the installer
> complains that I cannot put my root partition into LVM2. This works just
> fine with Grub2, and isn't Fedora supposed to be cutting edge? Anyway,
> so I try to create a primary /boot partition instead.
>

Fedora uses a patched version of GRUB Legacy. It can read / partitions
on LVM but the /boot partition still needs to be ext* on disk.

> There is 128 MB of free space. I tell the installer to use all the space
> that's available. It claims that there is not enough space left.
>

In Fedora we use an application called preupgrade for distro upgrades.
During those upgrades the installer downloads the new kernel images to
/boot before the upgrade is performed. On previous versions there has
been problems where the /boot was not large enough and upgrades failed.
So from F12 the recommended /boot size is 500MB to avoid such issues.

> At this point I just got too annoyed. Am I just extremely unlucky or is
> a Fedora installation always that painful?

I hope I answered a few of your issues.

--
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Open source is the future. It sets us free.
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Old 02-05-2011, 05:16 PM
Nikolaus Rath
 
Default Installation Impressions

suvayu ali <fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com> writes:
> I don't know about your other issues, but I'll try to answer the ones below.
>
> On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Nikolaus Rath <Nikolaus@rath.org> wrote:
>> Alright, so I'll do without swap for now. Next thing the installer
>> complains that I cannot put my root partition into LVM2. This works just
>> fine with Grub2, and isn't Fedora supposed to be cutting edge? Anyway,
>> so I try to create a primary /boot partition instead.
>
> Fedora uses a patched version of GRUB Legacy. It can read / partitions
> on LVM but the /boot partition still needs to be ext* on disk.

How come that Fedora sticks with GRUB Legacy? One of my reasons for
wanting to try Fedora was to get quicker access to new features, so I'm
really surprised to find that the first thing that I get in contact with
is an outdated GRUB...

>> There is 128 MB of free space. I tell the installer to use all the space
>> that's available. It claims that there is not enough space left.
>>
>
> In Fedora we use an application called preupgrade for distro upgrades.
> During those upgrades the installer downloads the new kernel images to
> /boot before the upgrade is performed. On previous versions there has
> been problems where the /boot was not large enough and upgrades failed.
> So from F12 the recommended /boot size is 500MB to avoid such issues.

Ugh. So I have hundreds of free GBs in my LVM VGs, but I won't be able
to install Fedora? Is there no way around this?


Best,

-Nikolaus

--
»Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

PGP fingerprint: 5B93 61F8 4EA2 E279 ABF6 02CF A9AD B7F8 AE4E 425C
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Old 02-05-2011, 05:28 PM
suvayu ali
 
Default Installation Impressions

On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 10:16 AM, Nikolaus Rath <Nikolaus@rath.org> wrote:
>> Fedora uses a patched version of GRUB Legacy. It can read / partitions
>> on LVM but the /boot partition still needs to be ext* on disk.
>
> How come that Fedora sticks with GRUB Legacy? One of my reasons for
> wanting to try Fedora was to get quicker access to new features, so I'm
> really surprised to find that the first thing that I get in contact with
> is an outdated GRUB...
>

Not sure about the exact reasons for this.

>>> There is 128 MB of free space. I tell the installer to use all the space
>>> that's available. It claims that there is not enough space left.
>>>
>>
>> In Fedora we use an application called preupgrade for distro upgrades.
>> During those upgrades the installer downloads the new kernel images to
>> /boot before the upgrade is performed. On previous versions there has
>> been problems where the /boot was not large enough and upgrades failed.
>> So from F12 the recommended /boot size is 500MB to avoid such issues.
>
> Ugh. So I have hundreds of free GBs in my LVM VGs, but I won't be able
> to install Fedora? Is there no way around this?

Well you have two options I think,

1. the obvious first, resize your LVMs to free 500 MB and use it as
/boot
2. use an external drive (even small USB drives should work) as your
/boot. I haven't done this personally but there are many on this list
who do that. You should be able to find some discussions about this
in the archives.

However there is a more adventurous option, you can use option 2 above
to boot the netinstall iso but then actually install Fedora with grub2
from the repos. That way you get a Fedora install which uses grub2. I
think there are a few pages on the wiki about this. As far as I recall
there are some people on the list who use grub2. So maybe you can search
in the fedoraproject wiki and then start a new thread asking how others
do it.

Hope these help.

--
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Old 02-05-2011, 05:29 PM
Gilboa Davara
 
Default Installation Impressions

On Fri, 2011-02-04 at 17:54 -0500, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm a long term Debian and Ubuntu user and just tried to install Fedora
> 14. I want to share a couple of impressions:

I wonder, what exactly were you trying to achieve?
Beyond a possible (?) bug report when dealing with your swap (and I
doubt it), your post is pure rent.

Let me help you:
1. Fedora uses grub1.
2. Fedora doesn't support /boot on LVM.
3. Fedora requires you to remember the URL of your network installation
image.
4. All of the above is well documented.

Now, if 1-4 prevents you from using Fedora you could be civil (!!!) or
even, God forbids, constructive, and post an RFE in
http://bugzilla.redhat.com stating the problem and a possible solution,
hoping that your use-case will be enough to justify the effort.
On the other hand, you can rant @Fedora-users and feel good about
yourself.
Your choice.

- Gilboa


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Old 02-05-2011, 05:34 PM
Gilboa Davara
 
Default Installation Impressions

On Sat, 2011-02-05 at 20:29 +0200, Gilboa Davara wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-02-04 at 17:54 -0500, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm a long term Debian and Ubuntu user and just tried to install Fedora
> > 14. I want to share a couple of impressions:
>
> I wonder, what exactly were you trying to achieve?
> Beyond a possible (?) bug report when dealing with your swap (and I
> doubt it), your post is pure rent.

Forgot to add.
I case your post was a (very!) misguided plea for help.
Please post the your partition table and disk configuration - maybe
it'll be possible to work around the lack of boot space problem.

- Gilboa

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Old 02-05-2011, 05:40 PM
Joe Zeff
 
Default Installation Impressions

On 02/04/2011 02:54 PM, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
> I'm a long term Debian and Ubuntu user and just tried to install Fedora
> 14. I want to share a couple of impressions:

I found this in my Junk folder on Thunderbird. Checking, it was sent to
"Undisclosed Recipients." Please don't do that, as I doubt I'm the only
one on this list who considers that a sign of spam.
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Old 02-05-2011, 07:26 PM
"Kevin J. Cummings"
 
Default Installation Impressions

On 02/05/2011 01:16 PM, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
> How come that Fedora sticks with GRUB Legacy? One of my reasons for
> wanting to try Fedora was to get quicker access to new features, so I'm
> really surprised to find that the first thing that I get in contact with
> is an outdated GRUB...

Grub-2.0 is available in the repos. If you want it, install and use it:

yum install grub2

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