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Old 02-04-2011, 05:09 PM
James McKenzie
 
Default Is there a better Alternative to Thunderbird ?

> On 02/03/2011 11:20 AM, Robert Myers wrote:
> You can't say Linux won't be a factor on the desktop. I have a number
> of relatively unsophisticated users running CentOS as their desktop
> and they're quite happy. Oh, they look at my stuff and "ooh" and "aah"
> at some of the niftiness, but they'll get it when it's stable.
<Major Soapbox entered the room, set down and I jumped on it>
If I could get Fedora or CentOS running on my old Thinkpad, I would move
back to Linux. I would have to go find an external DVD player.

I use a Mac because it 'works'. There is not a major program out there
that I cannot find a Mac equivilent for that 'works'. Not so for Linux.
You cannot find a program with the functionality and flexibility of
AutoCad. All of the third party programs are missing some essential
function that AutoCad has.

If I buy a Dell, it will NOT come with Linux (it is an option) as I work
in a Windows environment and I still feel that Linux is NOT ready to be
a prime-time desktop OS (WAY to many quirks and hoops.) It will come
with Windows7. It is very MacOSX like and does not have a crash a day
problem.

I switched to using a Mac after LOTS of investigation and watching the
Windows98SE/ME disaster (Microsoft usually screws it up once before
getting it right.) I was using RH 9/FC 1, 2, 3, 4 and I did not like
the new release every six months. However, as you, I and others have
pointed out, Fedora is an experimental OS, for RH to try and 'get it
right'. That was after IBM dropped support for OS/2 on the SOHO desktop.

Now, before anyone gets their knickers in a twist, I've been playing
around with 'PCs' before such a term existed. I've run various versions
of Linux/UNIX since the mid 1990s and was a great fanboy of OS/2 (too
bad IBM dropped the ball on that one.) I would love to say that Linux
is a great OS, and in many cases it is. However, for Joe Windows Fanboy
it is not ready. Many Windows programs do not and will not have a fully
functional Linux one. Linux remains a niche product in many ways.

Gnome/KDE 'wars' and others aside, if you watch the folks in Redmond
work, you would know why Linux is going to win the Server wars, and
Windows has such a great grip on the Desktop. Until Linux can support
99% of all hardware OUT OF THE BOX, with no tweaking and other
non-sense, then it will not even have a fighting chance. Folks are
loathe to sell/give away their old hardware and Apple still supports the
G-3 Graphite that my SO owns. I cannot say that for ANY PC company
(Dell, Gateway, IBM, and a few others).

Sad to say, but I may have to become a Windows Fanboy to get what I need
done, without having to beat on a system all day long.

When Linux gets to that level, it will be a winner. Otherwise, it will
continue to be an operating system for servers and cell phones.

<Jim leaves the room, taking his soapbox with him.>

> <soap>
> MacOS doesn't release often and Macs are very controlled environments
> and don't have to cater to millions of different hardware combos unlike
> most Linux environments. Windows hasn't had a major release since
> Windows 7, just bug and security fixes (lots of those).
</soap>

And so did Solaris and other operating systems. This is called quality
control. If the IBM versus Tandy case had gone the other way, we would
all be using IBM hardware/software. We would still be running ATs with
a green screen. That is called innovation...

> Windows stability? Remember the travesty that was Vista?
No but I remember ME, which was MUCH worse.

> Fedora is, by definition, experimental. If one wishes stability, then
> use CentOS or RHEL or another "stable" release. I can't name another
> OS with a 6-month (more or less) lifetime. We are on the bleeding edge
> with Fedora. It's called that because you must expect to be wounded
> occasionally when playing with sharp objects.
Yes, it is and you have good advice for anyone wanting to run Linux. I
don't dispise Linux, I think it is very 'neat'. I just don't want to
have to go through the hoops to get it to work anymore.

BTW, Windows XP SP3 runs on the hardware I have, slowly. Linux cannot
even bring up X. That is a sad case.

James McKenzie

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Old 02-04-2011, 06:31 PM
"Michael Miles"
 
Default Is there a better Alternative to Thunderbird ?

-----Original Message-----
From: users-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org
[mailto:users-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of James McKenzie
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 10:10
To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Subject: Re: Is there a better Alternative to Thunderbird ? <Why I use a
Mac>

> On 02/03/2011 11:20 AM, Robert Myers wrote:
> You can't say Linux won't be a factor on the desktop. I have a number
> of relatively unsophisticated users running CentOS as their desktop
> and they're quite happy. Oh, they look at my stuff and "ooh" and "aah"
> at some of the niftiness, but they'll get it when it's stable.
<Major Soapbox entered the room, set down and I jumped on it>
If I could get Fedora or CentOS running on my old Thinkpad, I would move
back to Linux. I would have to go find an external DVD player.

I use a Mac because it 'works'. There is not a major program out there
that I cannot find a Mac equivilent for that 'works'. Not so for Linux.
You cannot find a program with the functionality and flexibility of
AutoCad. All of the third party programs are missing some essential
function that AutoCad has.

If I buy a Dell, it will NOT come with Linux (it is an option) as I work
in a Windows environment and I still feel that Linux is NOT ready to be
a prime-time desktop OS (WAY to many quirks and hoops.) It will come
with Windows7. It is very MacOSX like and does not have a crash a day
problem.

I switched to using a Mac after LOTS of investigation and watching the
Windows98SE/ME disaster (Microsoft usually screws it up once before
getting it right.) I was using RH 9/FC 1, 2, 3, 4 and I did not like
the new release every six months. However, as you, I and others have
pointed out, Fedora is an experimental OS, for RH to try and 'get it
right'. That was after IBM dropped support for OS/2 on the SOHO desktop.

Now, before anyone gets their knickers in a twist, I've been playing
around with 'PCs' before such a term existed. I've run various versions
of Linux/UNIX since the mid 1990s and was a great fanboy of OS/2 (too
bad IBM dropped the ball on that one.) I would love to say that Linux
is a great OS, and in many cases it is. However, for Joe Windows Fanboy
it is not ready. Many Windows programs do not and will not have a fully
functional Linux one. Linux remains a niche product in many ways.

Gnome/KDE 'wars' and others aside, if you watch the folks in Redmond
work, you would know why Linux is going to win the Server wars, and
Windows has such a great grip on the Desktop. Until Linux can support
99% of all hardware OUT OF THE BOX, with no tweaking and other
non-sense, then it will not even have a fighting chance. Folks are
loathe to sell/give away their old hardware and Apple still supports the
G-3 Graphite that my SO owns. I cannot say that for ANY PC company
(Dell, Gateway, IBM, and a few others).

Sad to say, but I may have to become a Windows Fanboy to get what I need
done, without having to beat on a system all day long.

When Linux gets to that level, it will be a winner. Otherwise, it will
continue to be an operating system for servers and cell phones.

<Jim leaves the room, taking his soapbox with him.>

> <soap>
> MacOS doesn't release often and Macs are very controlled environments
> and don't have to cater to millions of different hardware combos unlike
> most Linux environments. Windows hasn't had a major release since
> Windows 7, just bug and security fixes (lots of those).
</soap>

And so did Solaris and other operating systems. This is called quality
control. If the IBM versus Tandy case had gone the other way, we would
all be using IBM hardware/software. We would still be running ATs with
a green screen. That is called innovation...

> Windows stability? Remember the travesty that was Vista?
No but I remember ME, which was MUCH worse.

> Fedora is, by definition, experimental. If one wishes stability, then
> use CentOS or RHEL or another "stable" release. I can't name another
> OS with a 6-month (more or less) lifetime. We are on the bleeding edge
> with Fedora. It's called that because you must expect to be wounded
> occasionally when playing with sharp objects.
Yes, it is and you have good advice for anyone wanting to run Linux. I
don't dispise Linux, I think it is very 'neat'. I just don't want to
have to go through the hoops to get it to work anymore.

BTW, Windows XP SP3 runs on the hardware I have, slowly. Linux cannot
even bring up X. That is a sad case.

James McKenzie

Very well said....

Michael

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Old 02-04-2011, 07:56 PM
Manuel Escudero
 
Default Is there a better Alternative to Thunderbird ?

2011/2/4 Michael Miles <mmamiga6@gmail.com>






-----Original Message-----

From: users-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org

[mailto:users-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of James McKenzie

Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 10:10

To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org

Subject: Re: Is there a better Alternative to Thunderbird ? <Why I use a

Mac>



> On 02/03/2011 11:20 AM, Robert Myers wrote:

> You can't say Linux won't be a factor on the desktop. I have a number

> of relatively unsophisticated users running CentOS as their desktop

> and they're quite happy. Oh, they look at my stuff and "ooh" and "aah"

> at some of the niftiness, but they'll get it when it's stable.

<Major Soapbox entered the room, set down and I jumped on it>

If I could get Fedora or CentOS running on my old Thinkpad, I would move

back to Linux. *I would have to go find an external DVD player.



I use a Mac because it 'works'. *There is not a major program out there

that I cannot find a Mac equivilent for that 'works'. *Not so for Linux.

*You cannot find a program with the functionality and flexibility of

AutoCad. *All of the third party programs are missing some essential

function that AutoCad has.



If I buy a Dell, it will NOT come with Linux (it is an option) as I work

in a Windows environment and I still feel that Linux is NOT ready to be

a prime-time desktop OS (WAY to many quirks and hoops.) *It will come

with Windows7. *It is very MacOSX like and does not have a crash a day

problem.



I switched to using a Mac after LOTS of investigation and watching the

Windows98SE/ME disaster (Microsoft usually screws it up once before

getting it right.) *I was using RH 9/FC 1, 2, 3, 4 and I did not like

the new release every six months. *However, as you, I and others have

pointed out, Fedora is an experimental OS, for RH to try and 'get it

right'. *That was after IBM dropped support for OS/2 on the SOHO desktop.



Now, before anyone gets their knickers in a twist, I've been playing

around with 'PCs' before such a term existed. *I've run various versions

of Linux/UNIX since the mid 1990s and was a great fanboy of OS/2 (too

bad IBM dropped the ball on that one.) *I would love to say that Linux

is a great OS, and in many cases it is. *However, for Joe Windows Fanboy

it is not ready. *Many Windows programs do not and will not have a fully

functional Linux one. *Linux remains a niche product in many ways.



Gnome/KDE 'wars' and others aside, if you watch the folks in Redmond

work, you would know why Linux is going to win the Server wars, and

Windows has such a great grip on the Desktop. *Until Linux can support

99% of all hardware OUT OF THE BOX, with no tweaking and other

non-sense, then it will not even have a fighting chance. *Folks are

loathe to sell/give away their old hardware and Apple still supports the

G-3 Graphite that my SO owns. *I cannot say that for ANY PC company

(Dell, Gateway, IBM, and a few others).



Sad to say, but I may have to become a Windows Fanboy to get what I need

done, without having to beat on a system all day long.



When Linux gets to that level, it will be a winner. *Otherwise, it will

continue to be an operating system for servers and cell phones.



<Jim leaves the room, taking his soapbox with him.>



> <soap>

> MacOS doesn't release often and Macs are very controlled environments

> and don't have to cater to millions of different hardware combos unlike

> most Linux environments. *Windows hasn't had a major release since

> Windows 7, just bug and security fixes (lots of those).

</soap>



And so did Solaris and other operating systems. *This is called quality

control. *If the IBM versus Tandy case had gone the other way, we would

all be using IBM hardware/software. *We would still be running ATs with

a green screen. *That is called innovation...



> Windows stability? *Remember the travesty that was Vista?

No but I remember ME, which was MUCH worse.



> Fedora is, by definition, experimental. *If one wishes stability, then

> use CentOS or RHEL or another "stable" release. *I can't name another

> OS with a 6-month (more or less) lifetime. *We are on the bleeding edge

> with Fedora. *It's called that because you must expect to be wounded

> occasionally when playing with sharp objects.

Yes, it is and you have good advice for anyone wanting to run Linux. *I

don't dispise Linux, I think it is very 'neat'. *I just don't want to

have to go through the hoops to get it to work anymore.



BTW, Windows XP SP3 runs on the hardware I have, slowly. *Linux cannot

even bring up X. *That is a sad case.



James McKenzie



Very well said....



Michael



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Hummm, All that paragraph that James Mackenzie wrote is really mistaken, I will only give my

opinion on that ok? I don't believe I have the reason or something like that, but I think this way:


Reading between Lines:


"If I could get Fedora or CentOS running on my old Thinkpad, I would move


back to Linux. *I would have to go find an external DVD player..."


¿How many RAM does your computer has? You can Run Fedora + LXDE

with at least 128MB in RAM and it will run better than XP or others... Also,*

why you need an external unit? We have USB's and you can install the O.S.*

from there...



"I use a Mac because it 'works'... Not so for Linux"


Humm... We have an equivalent for almost everything and they run just fine, I believe*

any Linux alternative for any program has very much power as the Windows/Mac original

program has. For example, to raplace AutoCAD we have Archimedes and gCAD3D. Also, for

some other programs you have PlayOnLinux/Wine as an alternative and you have also the possibility

of Running a Virtual Machine via VMWare Player/Virtualbox (if you have a strong enough machine)

to run Windows and some programs of it's own.


What I wanted to say with that, is that you pick one or other enviroment not based exactly on their programs

but in many other things... For example, I use Linux because I was tired of viruses and HDD errors that made me

wipe the computer once every 2/3 months, it's more secure that windows, it's more reliable, it's the best out there.


Mac it's just expensive, a Mac Computer costs 3 times more it's real value, and they're only PC's!!! Hardware, Software...

if I want an OS that can run any hardware only by plugging it, without viruses and with an alternative for every program

out there, I'll use Linux buying a powerful PC and putting a Linux Distro inside of it, also I like the "lastest things"

so, for example, fedora is the best O.S. for me, Don't like to have something for many many long time...


"Fedora is an experimental OS for RH to try and get it right"


And that's a myth buddy Fedora was born as an opportunity of keep giving a free O.S. always very updated to the final user

because Red Hat decided to move it's developing path to focus into more stable software that could be mantained for large periods

of time without the need for radical changes, They wasn't able to provide the lastest technology and that kind of service

in only one distro, so they splitted up in two paths: For servers (that are those that need to be mantained without very much

changes over the years) and for Desktops: (these are the ones for normal users, the market of everyday's person

who likes to get the lastest technologies and innovations quite soon).

Okey, maybe the company analizes the different features developed in fedora in order to decide if get them into RHEL or not,

They're also awared about all the new features and technologies that appear in the Linux world, just like any other company that offers

systems with large maintenance periods (in this case for servers) does. If that myth was actually the truth, we will be saying that all the

Desktop Operating Systems are just BETAS for Server's ones and we will be fooling ourselves.


"Linux remains a niche product in many ways"


I don't think so... I've been installing linux in many PC's for some time ago and

I have to say, my users can't be more happy with it, they even say things like:

"Wow! How it's possible I'm meeting this right now!" and that's because, with

every installation I do, I also prepare the computer for almost everything without

"bloating" it... Linux isn't the problem... The people around Linux is the problem...


For example, every new user has to follow a "Post-Installation" guide in order to get all of the things

right in it's Linux, and that stands also for Mac and Windows user. Every O.S. Need you to follow

some steps to "tweak it" as you like or need just after installing it. I never seen a O.S. that has

almost everything without bloating itself.. THE ONLY O.S. that can almost successfully accomplish

this goal (And this is just my opinion) is PARDUS LINUX.





"Sad to say, but I may have to become a Windows Fanboy to get what I need

done, without having to beat on a system all day long."


So tell me, What do you have to "get done" in Linux that makes you "fight with the system"

in order to get it? If you need a windows instance, use VMware or VirtualBox, as I see it,*

if Linux has more advantages, I'll use it for my real PC, and if I have to use Windows

for some forced reason, Instead of compromising my computer's integrity, I'll run it inside*

Vbox...


"I just don't want to

have to go through the hoops to get it to work anymore."


Then, DON'T USE FEDORA!! fedora isn't for a person Like you,

if you want a "FULLY FUNCTIONAL" linux without doing anything,

then try with Linux Mint, Mandriva or Pardus, but keep away from Fedora, OpenSUSE

and even ubuntu maybe...



"BTW, Windows XP SP3 runs on the hardware I have, slowly. *Linux cannot


even bring up X. *That is a sad case."




And, just Remarking my point, if you want to run Linux in very old hardware, forget about gnome

or KDE, use LXDE instead, it's "very windows like" desktop and very much Lighter than WinXP


--
<-Manuel Escudero->
Linux User #509052
@GWave: jmlevick@googlewave.com
@Blogger: http://www.blogxenode.tk/ (Xenode Systems Blog)


PGP/GnuPG: DAE3 82E9 D68E 7AE4 ED31* 1F8F 4AF4 D00C 50E7 ABC6



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Old 02-04-2011, 08:35 PM
"compdoc"
 
Default Is there a better Alternative to Thunderbird ?

>I switched to using a Mac after LOTS of investigation and watching the
Windows98SE/ME disaster (Microsoft usually screws it up once before getting
it right.)



98SE was a stable OS as used in the business world: easy to repair, easy to
install, and easy to upgrade hardware for on existing systems - you could
easily replace the motherboard, for instance.

But it booted dos to launch itself, and so, depended heavily on dos and its
config files. Dos's useful life was over at this point, and it was holding
back the OS.

Windows ME was an attempt to extend the life of the 98 code base, but with
some changes: ME didn't boot dos anymore. It booted directly to the ME OS.
This, and other things caused stuff to break.

However, I've worked on computers that came with ME installed, and they ran
great. These were sold to the masses by companies like HP.

The kind of users who don't upgrade their systems bought them, and used them
reliably for years.

Flame off!






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Old 02-04-2011, 09:21 PM
James McKenzie
 
Default Is there a better Alternative to Thunderbird ?

On 2/4/11 1:56 PM, Manuel Escudero wrote:
>
> 2011/2/4 Michael Miles <mmamiga6@gmail.com <mailto:mmamiga6@gmail.com>>
>
>
>
>
> James McKenzie
>
> Very well said....
>
> Michael
>
> --
> users mailing list
> users@lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:users@lists.fedoraproject.org>
> To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>
>
>
> Hummm, All that paragraph that James Mackenzie wrote is really
> mistaken, I will only give my
> opinion on that ok? I don't believe I have the reason or something
> like that, but I think this way:
>
> Reading between Lines:
>
> "If I could get Fedora or CentOS running on my old Thinkpad, I would move
> back to Linux. I would have to go find an external DVD player..."
>
> ¿How many RAM does your computer has? You can Run Fedora + LXDE
> with at least 128MB in RAM and it will run better than XP or others...
> Also,
> why you need an external unit? We have USB's and you can install the O.S.
> from there...
>
Again, this is said from the viewpoint of Joe User, who does not have
the time to tweak. S/he wants a system that works OUT OF THE BOX, with
the hardware they have. It may be 1, 2, 5 or even 10 years old. I know
about all of the fun stuff you can to with Linux.
BTW, most of the older hardware CANNOT boot off of USB and some even
have 4x CD drives. This is what I'm talking about. Not the guy with
the shiny new computer that wants to replace what came from Redmond on
the box.
>
> " I use a Mac because it 'works'... Not so for Linux"
>
> Humm... We have an equivalent for almost everything and they run just
> fine, I believe
> any Linux alternative for any program has very much power as the
> Windows/Mac original
> program has. For example, to raplace AutoCAD we have Archimedes and
> gCAD3D. Also, for
> some other programs you have PlayOnLinux/Wine as an alternative and
> you have also the possibility
> of Running a Virtual Machine via VMWare Player/Virtualbox (if you have
> a strong enough machine)
> to run Windows and some programs of it's own.
I can run VirtualBox on my Mac, and I work in a shop where we do that
everyday. However, I will dispute POL/Wine. It is really NOT ready for
primetime and does NOT support some of the programs I work with (they
have software that does wonderful things like check the system to insure
that it is not running on hacked Windows, will NEVER work on Wine, ever.)
>
> What I wanted to say with that, is that you pick one or other
> enviroment not based exactly on their programs
> but in many other things... For example, I use Linux because I was
> tired of viruses and HDD errors that made me
> wipe the computer once every 2/3 months, it's more secure that
> windows, it's more reliable, it's the best out there.
>
So is Solaris. I don't run that either. And Solaris is REAL UNIX, with
REAL SUPPORT. If you were getting hit by viruses you were not
practicing best security practices. The ONLY time I was hit was because
I thought the other party had virus protection turned on. Turns out
they did not and I did not scan the disk before using it. I don't do
that anymore.

> Mac it's just expensive, a Mac Computer costs 3 times more it's real
> value, and they're only PC's!!! Hardware, Software...
> if I want an OS that can run any hardware only by plugging it, without
> viruses and with an alternative for every program
> out there, I'll use Linux buying a powerful PC and putting a Linux
> Distro inside of it, also I like the "lastest things"
> so, for example, fedora is the best O.S. for me, Don't like to have
> something for many many long time...
I won't disagree with the 3x price. But if you go out and BUY a decent
DVD authoring software package and the remaining software, you end up
spending more for your PC. This was proven by the folks at PC Magazine
a year and a half ago.
>
> "Fedora is an experimental OS for RH to try and get it right"
>
> And that's a myth buddy
No, it is experimental. Even RH says so. CentOS is the 'free' Linux.
I'll run that in production any day. FC, no. It is a beta, nothing
more nothing less. It is where RH 'tries things out' And that came
from RH themselves. And I work for a company that holds a very large RH
contract.

> Fedora was born as an opportunity of keep giving a free O.S. always
> very updated to the final user
> because Red Hat decided to move it's developing path to focus into
> more stable software that could be mantained for large periods
> of time without the need for radical changes, They wasn't able to
> provide the lastest technology and that kind of service
> in only one distro, so they splitted up in two paths: For servers
> (that are those that need to be mantained without very much
> changes over the years) and for Desktops: (these are the ones for
> normal users, the market of everyday's person
> who likes to get the lastest technologies and innovations quite soon).
No. You missed the part where I said that RH is NOT interested in the
Desktop. They were up until RH8 or so. Then they learned the hard way
that they were not going to win the desktop and moved on. FC is where
they test what does and does not work.
> Okey, maybe the company analizes the different features developed in
> fedora in order to decide if get them into RHEL or not,
> They're also awared about all the new features and technologies that
> appear in the Linux world, just like any other company that offers
> systems with large maintenance periods (in this case for servers)
> does. If that myth was actually the truth, we will be saying that all the
> Desktop Operating Systems are just BETAS for Server's ones and we will
> be fooling ourselves.
RH is very interested in the server market and are doing very well
there. They are actually doing well.
>
> "Linux remains a niche product in many ways"
>
> I don't think so... I've been installing linux in many PC's for some
> time ago and
> I have to say, my users can't be more happy with it, they even say
> things like:
> "Wow! How it's possible I'm meeting this right now!" and that's
> because, with
> every installation I do, I also prepare the computer for almost
> everything without
> "bloating" it... Linux isn't the problem... The people around Linux is
> the problem...
>
Maybe so. However, I bet you have a 'standard' installation.
> For example, every new user has to follow a "Post-Installation" guide
> in order to get all of the things
> right in it's Linux, and that stands also for Mac and Windows user.
> Every O.S. Need you to follow
> some steps to "tweak it" as you like or need just after installing it.
> I never seen a O.S. that has
> almost everything without bloating itself.. THE ONLY O.S. that can
> almost successfully accomplish
> this goal (And this is just my opinion) is PARDUS LINUX.
>
Yep, I thought so. And what do I have to do 'post Install' on my Mac?
Create accounts. Not so with Linux.
>
> "Sad to say, but I may have to become a Windows Fanboy to get what I need
> done, without having to beat on a system all day long."
>
> So tell me, What do you have to "get done" in Linux that makes you
> "fight with the system"
> in order to get it? If you need a windows instance, use VMware or
> VirtualBox, as I see it,
I don't. Why would I load up software that makes my system slow as
molasses in Boston in January. Just load up Windows, dual boot and get
it over with. And I have full access to the hardware so any program
that needs to do specific things can.
Also, why would I want to or need to use a second product to use a
simple program? I don't. I can install Windows7 on my Mac, after
blowing away MacOSX. I know several people who have. They don't miss
MacOSX, they never used it. Ask them about the only Linux known to run
with Macs, Ubuntu and they laugh and go back to work.

> "I just don't want to
> have to go through the hoops to get it to work anymore."
>
> Then, DON'T USE FEDORA!! fedora isn't for a person Like you,
> if you want a "FULLY FUNCTIONAL" linux without doing anything,
> then try with Linux Mint, Mandriva or Pardus, but keep away from
> Fedora, OpenSUSE
> and even ubuntu maybe...
>
Nice suggestion. I like it. Too bad there are not more like you that
know the difference between FC and a stable Linux distribution. I've
seen the skid marks left when a user received 300 MB of updates that
almost trashed their system. They spent about 1/2 hour formatting their
hard drive and installing Windows. They said "I'll NEVER, EVER use
anything but Windows." Even with the bloat from AntiVirus programs and
GB of backups, they will never come back.

I have tried CentOS 5.5. This is the non-commercial RHEL. I have a
'thing' for RH and I like them. However, someone has to say the money
is not made in the shiny new computers but in supporting those who have
supported you....

>
> "BTW, Windows XP SP3 runs on the hardware I have, slowly. Linux cannot
> even bring up X. That is a sad case."
>
>
> And, just Remarking my point, if you want to run Linux in very old
> hardware, forget about gnome
> or KDE, use LXDE instead, it's "very windows like" desktop and very
> much Lighter than WinXP
Why? Most software is designed to work with Gnome/KDE.

But the problem here is why do I have to 'lighten up' Linux? Because it
has become what its competitors have: Bloatware. And I don't feel like
building kernels. I've been there, done that....

As I said, Linux on the desktop is niche. It is for folks who for some
reason don't like the folks in Redmond. Even the major distributors
know this.

Oh, I'm not knocking the concept behind FC, it is great. Folks have to
know what they are getting into.

James McKenzie

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Old 02-04-2011, 09:44 PM
g
 
Default Is there a better Alternative to Thunderbird ?

On 02/04/2011 10:21 PM, James McKenzie wrote:
> On 2/4/11 1:56 PM, Manuel Escudero wrote:
>> 2011/2/4 Michael Miles <mmamiga6@gmail.com <mailto:mmamiga6@gmail.com>>
<>

james,

would you please put a blank line, or two between what you are quoting
and what you are writing.

not doing so makes it difficult to tell what might be 'line wrap' in
your quotes and what you are writing.

also, if you quote something and there is 'line wrap' causing a quoted to
appear with out a quote symbol, ie ">", because you are using thunderbird,
if you press keys "<alt+e>,<w>", thunderbird will rewrap lines to proper
quoting.

thank you.

other than that, i have no comment to your opinions, other a little bit
of trimming would be nice.


--

peace out.

tc.hago,

g
.

****
in a free world without fences, who needs gates.
**
help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today.
**
to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it.
to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it.
**
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Old 02-04-2011, 09:55 PM
James McKenzie
 
Default Is there a better Alternative to Thunderbird ?

On 2/4/11 3:44 PM, g wrote:
> On 02/04/2011 10:21 PM, James McKenzie wrote:
>> On 2/4/11 1:56 PM, Manuel Escudero wrote:
>>> 2011/2/4 Michael Miles<mmamiga6@gmail.com<mailto:mmamiga6@gmail.com >>
> <>
>
> james,
>
> would you please put a blank line, or two between what you are quoting
> and what you are writing.
>
> not doing so makes it difficult to tell what might be 'line wrap' in
> your quotes and what you are writing.
>
> also, if you quote something and there is 'line wrap' causing a quoted to
> appear with out a quote symbol, ie ">", because you are using thunderbird,
> if you press keys "<alt+e>,<w>", thunderbird will rewrap lines to proper
> quoting.
>
> thank you.
>
> other than that, i have no comment to your opinions, other a little bit
> of trimming would be nice.
>
>
Thank you for the comments on my quotes. I'll keep this for a reference.

James McKenzie

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Old 02-04-2011, 10:12 PM
g
 
Default Is there a better Alternative to Thunderbird ?

On 02/04/2011 10:55 PM, James McKenzie wrote:
<>

> Thank you for the comments on my quotes. I'll keep this for a reference.

welcome.

not being a mac user, i did not feel that i could make comment to what
you wrote.

it was an interesting read. a little difficult to follow, but interesting.


--

peace out.

tc.hago,

g
.

****
in a free world without fences, who needs gates.
**
help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today.
**
to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it.
to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it.
**
learn linux:
'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html
'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/
'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html
'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/
****

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Old 02-05-2011, 09:00 AM
Tim
 
Default Is there a better Alternative to Thunderbird ?

On Fri, 2011-02-04 at 15:21 -0700, James McKenzie wrote:
> Again, this is said from the viewpoint of Joe User, who does not have
> the time to tweak. S/he wants a system that works OUT OF THE BOX,
> with the hardware they have.

Then Windows isn't for them, either. I don't know of a single home user
who doesn't either, endlessly fiddle with it trying to make it do what
they want, or endlessly have grief because it doesn't do what they want,
and they're not able to do anything about it.

Windows cesspit.


--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

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Old 02-05-2011, 09:04 AM
Tim
 
Default Is there a better Alternative to Thunderbird ?

On Fri, 2011-02-04 at 14:35 -0700, compdoc wrote:
> 98SE was a stable OS

Don't make me laugh!

--
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