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Old 02-02-2008, 05:45 PM
Paul Shaffer
 
Default The "Les-centric" OS World (was) Good bye

Richard England <rlengland@verizon.net> wrote: Les Mikesell wrote:
> Michael A. Peters wrote:
>>
>> I'll never forget the bug report I filed with a repeatable (on my
>> end) segmentation fault when running the grep command. Guess what was
>> responsible? the nvidia driver.
>
> Ummm, OK, code has bugs. More news at 11...
>
> > Closed source kmods sometimes
>> do funky things.
>
> As opposed to? I've had several cases where the stock fedora kernel
> update would not boot at all on MPT scsi controllers.
>
>> Let the *user* be responsible for breaking their machine by
>> installing the driver. Then the issue is between the user and nVidia
>> - not the user and Fedora.
>
> Let's put this discussion off until all the
bugs in the rest of the
> system have been fixed. Firewire is my poster child for the state of
> the system drivers, but it doesn't make sense to point out someone
> else's bugs until everything in bugzilla is closed. Besides, there's
> a good chance that the bug you saw was really cause by an interface
> change on the kernel side.
>
>> It is easy enough to get the drivers, it is very well documented on
>> several blogs and websites.
>
> What does that mean?
>
>> Therefore, Fedora SHOULD wash their hands of kernel tainting modules.
>
> Unless they'd like to have some users.
>

Les,

What OS DO you like. I'm just curious.

~~R

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* I believe the answer to that would be "none," unless of course on the off chance some distro/windoze combo*just by accident happend to run all his apps and hardware perfectly, with no problems whatsoever.* So go see an Astrologer and find out when the planets will be properly aligned for that so I can start getting ready too! * Mike made some good points effortlessly refuted by Les in rather non-specific*terms (more news?), essentially illustrating for the umpteenth time, there*is no viable middle ground for this discususion from a distro-philosophic standpoint. * But it sure is fun watching the ongoing squabble!

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Old 02-02-2008, 10:16 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default The "Les-centric" OS World (was) Good bye

Paul Shaffer wrote:

Mike made some good points effortlessly refuted by Les in rather

> non-specific terms (more news?), essentially illustrating for the

umpteenth time, there is no viable middle ground for this discususion

> from a distro-philosophic standpoint.


Don't confuse two different rants. One, that code encumbered with GPL
restrictions can never be distributed in useful forms where you also
need the features provided by code under different terms in something
that can be considered a combined work, is mostly rhetorical since it
can't be changed - although it is something users need to understand.


The other and mostly-current rant is about usability issues that could
be fixed. All commonly needed 3rd party components could be push-button
installs; once installed they could keep working; security updates could
make it reasonable to keep running older working versions until the
worst bugs were fixed in the next update, etc., etc. This part becomes
a value judgment on the tradeoff between development time that might be
used on mechanics instead of usability and the loss of input from the
users that are forced to some other OS. This part can have a middle
ground and useful compromises.


--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com

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