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Old 01-19-2008, 09:13 AM
"Robert P. J. Day"
 
Default automatic installation of PAE-enabled kernel?

if i had been installing f8 on a 32-bit, PAE-enabled system with >4G
of RAM, would that have automatically installed the PAE version of the
kernel? or would i have had to make a choice along the way? thanks.

rday
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================================================== ======================
Robert P. J. Day
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry
Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

Home page: http://crashcourse.ca
Fedora Cookbook: http://crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Fedora_Cookbook
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Old 01-19-2008, 10:49 AM
John Summerfield
 
Default automatic installation of PAE-enabled kernel?

Robert P. J. Day wrote:

if i had been installing f8 on a 32-bit, PAE-enabled system with >4G
of RAM, would that have automatically installed the PAE version of the
kernel? or would i have had to make a choice along the way? thanks.


Try on one of those spare laptops:-)

My ThinkCentre's CPU (P IV 3.0 Ghz) says it supports PAE, but I don't
have a PAE kernel installed, though they are available.


This is Tikanaga-clone.

Actually, this is probably a Q for the Anaconda list. You might get both
the answer and the reason.


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John

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Old 01-19-2008, 10:56 AM
"Robert P. J. Day"
 
Default automatic installation of PAE-enabled kernel?

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008, John Summerfield wrote:

> Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> > if i had been installing f8 on a 32-bit, PAE-enabled system with >4G
> > of RAM, would that have automatically installed the PAE version of the
> > kernel? or would i have had to make a choice along the way? thanks.
>
> Try on one of those spare laptops:-)

you funny man. :-P actually, it wouldn't help since all of those
laptops have 64-bit AMD CPUs so PAE doesn't come into play.

> My ThinkCentre's CPU (P IV 3.0 Ghz) says it supports PAE, but I
> don't have a PAE kernel installed, though they are available.

the actual issue is that, if i have a 32-bit, PAE-enabled system with
<4G of RAM, obviously, PAE won't be relevant and i'll get a regular
kernel installed. but what if, even though there's <4G *now*, i know
that i'll be putting in several gig next week, so i'll want the PAE
kernel in preparation for that? better yet, does it hurt to have a
PAE kernel even if you don't need the PAE functionality?

> Actually, this is probably a Q for the Anaconda list. You might get
> both the answer and the reason.

good point. i'll wait a bit to see if an answer pops up here and, if
not, i'll try over there.

rday
--

================================================== ======================
Robert P. J. Day
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry
Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

Home page: http://crashcourse.ca
Fedora Cookbook: http://crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Fedora_Cookbook
================================================== ======================

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Old 01-19-2008, 11:23 AM
John Summerfield
 
Default automatic installation of PAE-enabled kernel?

Robert P. J. Day wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008, John Summerfield wrote:


Robert P. J. Day wrote:

if i had been installing f8 on a 32-bit, PAE-enabled system with >4G
of RAM, would that have automatically installed the PAE version of the
kernel? or would i have had to make a choice along the way? thanks.

Try on one of those spare laptops:-)


you funny man. :-P actually, it wouldn't help since all of those
laptops have 64-bit AMD CPUs so PAE doesn't come into play.


AMD-64 is, I think, a superset of PAE, so PAE would br right if you
install 32-bit.







My ThinkCentre's CPU (P IV 3.0 Ghz) says it supports PAE, but I
don't have a PAE kernel installed, though they are available.


the actual issue is that, if i have a 32-bit, PAE-enabled system with
<4G of RAM, obviously, PAE won't be relevant and i'll get a regular
kernel installed. but what if, even though there's <4G *now*, i know
that i'll be putting in several gig next week, so i'll want the PAE
kernel in preparation for that? better yet, does it hurt to have a
PAE kernel even if you don't need the PAE functionality?


When I replied earlier, I ran dmidecode to see how may RAM slots I have.
I can install 4 Gbytes, but as I understand things I don't get to use it
all unless I use PAE. But I could be wrong, I might not get to use it
all either way.







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Cheers
John

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Old 01-19-2008, 12:15 PM
"Robert P. J. Day"
 
Default automatic installation of PAE-enabled kernel?

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008, John Summerfield wrote:

> Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> > On Sat, 19 Jan 2008, John Summerfield wrote:
> >
> > > Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> > > > if i had been installing f8 on a 32-bit, PAE-enabled system with >4G
> > > > of RAM, would that have automatically installed the PAE version of the
> > > > kernel? or would i have had to make a choice along the way? thanks.

> > > Try on one of those spare laptops:-)

> > you funny man. :-P actually, it wouldn't help since all of those
> > laptops have 64-bit AMD CPUs so PAE doesn't come into play.
>
> AMD-64 is, I think, a superset of PAE, so PAE would br right if you
> install 32-bit.

right ... i would still need a PAE-enabled kernel even on a 64-bit CPU
if i installed only the 32-bit version of the OS. is that what you
were saying? i *believe* that's the case but i haven't tested that
since none of my systems have >4G of RAM.

> > the actual issue is that, if i have a 32-bit, PAE-enabled system
> > with <4G of RAM, obviously, PAE won't be relevant and i'll get a
> > regular kernel installed. but what if, even though there's <4G
> > *now*, i know that i'll be putting in several gig next week, so
> > i'll want the PAE kernel in preparation for that? better yet,
> > does it hurt to have a PAE kernel even if you don't need the PAE
> > functionality?
>
> When I replied earlier, I ran dmidecode to see how may RAM slots I
> have. I can install 4 Gbytes, but as I understand things I don't get
> to use it all unless I use PAE. But I could be wrong, I might not
> get to use it all either way.

maybe someone more knowledgeable can clarify this. and, again, i'm
still unsure if there's any harm in running a PAE-enabled kernel even
when you don't need one.

rday
--

================================================== ======================
Robert P. J. Day
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry
Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

Home page: http://crashcourse.ca
Fedora Cookbook: http://crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Fedora_Cookbook
================================================== ======================

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Old 01-19-2008, 02:59 PM
"Michael A. Peters"
 
Default automatic installation of PAE-enabled kernel?

Robert P. J. Day wrote:

if i had been installing f8 on a 32-bit, PAE-enabled system with >4G
of RAM, would that have automatically installed the PAE version of the
kernel? or would i have had to make a choice along the way? thanks.

rday
From what I understand, Anaconda has to install the kernel version it
booted, and that therefore, a PAE kernel is not installed by Anaconda
unless you do a custom respin.


The PAE kernel has to be requested by the user post install after booting.

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Old 01-19-2008, 03:02 PM
"Michael A. Peters"
 
Default automatic installation of PAE-enabled kernel?

Robert P. J. Day wrote:

maybe someone more knowledgeable can clarify this. and, again, i'm
still unsure if there's any harm in running a PAE-enabled kernel even
when you don't need one.

If I'm not mistaken, some older via chipsets will result in kernel panic
if booting a PAE kernel, which is why PAE is not default.


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Old 01-19-2008, 03:10 PM
"D. Hugh Redelmeier"
 
Default automatic installation of PAE-enabled kernel?

| From: Robert P. J. Day <rpjday@crashcourse.ca>

| maybe someone more knowledgeable can clarify this. and, again, i'm
| still unsure if there's any harm in running a PAE-enabled kernel even
| when you don't need one.

There would only be one kernel if supporting PAE didn't have a cost.
There is probably a cost in code size and in code pathlength.

I found this datapoint:
http://linux-memhotadd.sourceforge.net/hotadd.html

"Benchmarks seem to indicate around 3-6% CPU hit just for using
the PAE extensions (ie. it applies regardless of whether you are
actually accessing memory locations greater then 4GB)."

I don't know if it is reliable -- read the paper and you judge.

I would guess that the real CPU time cost is some linear combination of the
number of system calls, interrupts, and process switches. For
example, a system with only CPU-intensive applications might not be
hit. Now that I read more of the paper, that seems to be confirmed --
see 6.1.1.

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Old 01-19-2008, 06:15 PM
"D. Hugh Redelmeier"
 
Default automatic installation of PAE-enabled kernel?

| From: Michael A. Peters <mpeters@mac.com>

| If I'm not mistaken, some older via chipsets will result in kernel panic if
| booting a PAE kernel, which is why PAE is not default.

I thought that "everything" mainstream supported PAE from the Pentium
Pro on. That turns out not to be the case. Intel exception: the
original Pentium M and variantsdid not.

AMD didn't support PAE until the Athlon (my AMD K6 has no PAE; my
Athlon XP has PAE).

VIA didn't support PAE until the C7.

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Old 01-19-2008, 09:28 PM
John Summerfield
 
Default automatic installation of PAE-enabled kernel?

Robert P. J. Day wrote:






right ... i would still need a PAE-enabled kernel even on a 64-bit CPU
if i installed only the 32-bit version of the OS. is that what you
were saying? i *believe* that's the case but i haven't tested that
since none of my systems have >4G of RAM.


That's what I think. 4 Gbytes should be enough to try it with.




the actual issue is that, if i have a 32-bit, PAE-enabled system
with <4G of RAM, obviously, PAE won't be relevant and i'll get a
regular kernel installed. but what if, even though there's <4G
*now*, i know that i'll be putting in several gig next week, so
i'll want the PAE kernel in preparation for that? better yet,
does it hurt to have a PAE kernel even if you don't need the PAE
functionality?

When I replied earlier, I ran dmidecode to see how may RAM slots I
have. I can install 4 Gbytes, but as I understand things I don't get
to use it all unless I use PAE. But I could be wrong, I might not
get to use it all either way.


maybe someone more knowledgeable can clarify this. and, again, i'm
still unsure if there's any harm in running a PAE-enabled kernel even
when you don't need one.


Only if it doesn't work:-)



--

Cheers
John

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http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

You cannot reply off-list:-)

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