Linux Archive

Linux Archive (http://www.linux-archive.org/)
-   Fedora User (http://www.linux-archive.org/fedora-user/)
-   -   F-13 qnw wireless routers - (http://www.linux-archive.org/fedora-user/409830-f-13-qnw-wireless-routers.html)

Bob Goodwin 08-07-2010 06:07 PM

F-13 qnw wireless routers -
 
This is a current updated f-13 computer connected to our home LAN. I
have been using a Buffalo Airstation WLI-TX4-AG300N, essentially an
Ethernet wireless adapter to access the system. I recently bought a
Netgear WNDR330 dual band "N" wireless router and am having a lot of
trouble getting it to perform as advertised. This is a less than 20
year old typical two story frame house. I would expect the walls to
be essentially transparent to RF energy.

Normally the distance between the router and the wireless adapter is
less than forty feet and there has been no problem operating in the
2.4 gHz band however I find that with equipment located as it has
been for several years the new router will not function at that
distance in the 5 gHz band. In fact to get any connection at all I
have to reduce the distance to about ten feet which pretty well
negates the advantage of a wireless system. I decided several years
ago that running cables in this house is out of the question.

I am on the third WNDR3300 router for other reasons but all of them
have had weak signal problems in the 5 gHz band. I just got around
to experimenting with that problem over the last two days.

Does anyone have experience with a similar system? I would be
interested to know if my observations are typical or if I have an
equipment problem. I am considering obtaining a different wireless
adapter device to replace the Buffalo unit since it is the only
thing unchanged here.

Any suggestions or observations will be appreciated. I feel,like I
am operating in a vacuum with no one to consult.

Bob


--


--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

JD 08-07-2010 06:50 PM

F-13 qnw wireless routers -
 
On 08/07/2010 11:07 AM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
>
> This is a current updated f-13 computer connected to our home LAN. I
> have been using a Buffalo Airstation WLI-TX4-AG300N, essentially an
> Ethernet wireless adapter to access the system. I recently bought a
> Netgear WNDR330 dual band "N" wireless router and am having a lot of
> trouble getting it to perform as advertised. This is a less than 20
> year old typical two story frame house. I would expect the walls to
> be essentially transparent to RF energy.
>
> Normally the distance between the router and the wireless adapter is
> less than forty feet and there has been no problem operating in the
> 2.4 gHz band however I find that with equipment located as it has
> been for several years the new router will not function at that
> distance in the 5 gHz band. In fact to get any connection at all I
> have to reduce the distance to about ten feet which pretty well
> negates the advantage of a wireless system. I decided several years
> ago that running cables in this house is out of the question.
>
> I am on the third WNDR3300 router for other reasons but all of them
> have had weak signal problems in the 5 gHz band. I just got around
> to experimenting with that problem over the last two days.
>
> Does anyone have experience with a similar system? I would be
> interested to know if my observations are typical or if I have an
> equipment problem. I am considering obtaining a different wireless
> adapter device to replace the Buffalo unit since it is the only
> thing unchanged here.
>
> Any suggestions or observations will be appreciated. I feel,like I
> am operating in a vacuum with no one to consult.
>
> Bob
Hi Bob,
I have a very similar problem with the AT&T Uverse router.
Distance between my computer and the router is indeed less than
40 feet in a modern house with very light drywalls (earthquake
specification),
and because they are interior walls, they have no insulation.
There are 2 such walls between my computer and the router.
Rx signal at my computer is very weak even at 2.4 GHz.
I have set my Tx signal to maximum, but that will not affect
the Tx signal of the router. It has a weak Tx signal.
I do not believe there is anything that can be done to the routers.
I have experimented with putting external high gain antennas on
my computer, but they promise much more than they actually
deliver: nothing - No gain in signal at all.


--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

g 08-07-2010 08:00 PM

F-13 qnw wireless routers -
 
On 08/07/2010 06:07 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
<snip>

> Any suggestions or observations will be appreciated. I feel,like I
> am operating in a vacuum with no one to consult.


bob, jd,

when you can not boost output power, concentrate/increase antenna's output.

you may think this is 'tmi', but it is much less than a tenth of what
i have bookmarked. [i got tired of cut and paste. ;)]

howto | diy sites:
http://www.h-online.com/features/Build-a-Wi-Fi-radio-relay-using-household-materials-747382.html?view=print
http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx
http://linux.wareseeker.com/free-wifi-antenna/
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wifi:Building_an_antenna
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wifi/Cantenna
http://www.concentrate.com.au/misc/circular_waveguide_optimise.xls
http://www.wardriving.com/antenna.php
http://www.usbwifi.orconhosting.net.nz/
http://www.tritium.co.uk/
http://www.linux-wireless.org/Wireless/Antenna.DIY/
http://w3bguru.com/wiffy-extreme/
http://freeantennas.com/http://freeantennas.com/

watch on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJwOpJjYKqA&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j82KZdXo5is&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j82KZdXo5is&feature=related#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A9ZrHNkG9E&NR=1&feature=fvwp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoPhkW5t7sI&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOBfxbpxosA&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSFmS3bg4P0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaOPONLfD0I&feature=response_watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOBfxbpxosA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJwOpJjYKqA&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j82KZdXo5is&feature=related

search for more?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q=%22wifi+antenna&num=100
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q=&as_epq=wifi%2Bantenna%2Bboost&a s_oq=&as_eq=&num=100

commercial built:
http://www.starantenna.com/

have a look.

then, start out with a reflector plane and graduate up to a helix.

i have built 'cantenna', 'log periodic', and 'helix' for amateur radio
microwave, and wifi, with good to excellent results for both.

have fun.

--

peace out.

tc,hago.

g
.

****
in a free world without fences, who needs gates.
**
help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today.
**
to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it.
to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it.
**
learn linux:
'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html
'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/
'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html
'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/
****

--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Bob Goodwin 08-07-2010 08:30 PM

F-13 qnw wireless routers -
 
On 07/08/10 16:00, g wrote:
>
> then, start out with a reflector plane and graduate up to a helix.
>
> i have built 'cantenna', 'log periodic', and 'helix' for amateur radio
> microwave, and wifi, with good to excellent results for both.
>
> have fun.
>

G, I have antennas all over, but these two boxes I am messing with
have no connectors. Not only that but cable losses are very high at
these frequencies and more than a few inches of cable will cost you
more in loss than you can gain with directivity. 5 gHz probably
wants wave guide ...

Bob


--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Gene Heskett 08-07-2010 09:32 PM

F-13 qnw wireless routers -
 
On Saturday, August 07, 2010 05:14:52 pm Bob Goodwin did opine:

> On 07/08/10 16:00, g wrote:
> > then, start out with a reflector plane and graduate up to a helix.
> >
> > i have built 'cantenna', 'log periodic', and 'helix' for amateur radio
> > microwave, and wifi, with good to excellent results for both.
> >
> > have fun.
>
> G, I have antennas all over, but these two boxes I am messing with
> have no connectors. Not only that but cable losses are very high at
> these frequencies and more than a few inches of cable will cost you
> more in loss than you can gain with directivity. 5 gHz probably
> wants wave guide ...
>
> Bob

Absolutely Bob. About the practical Maximum Usable Frequency of coax is in
the 2.2 Ghz range, and that is for 1.625 inch heliax or better yet, rigid.
About $7 to $12/foot, used. I have used smaller stuff, but at 1.5Ghz
ranges, with buckets of powered gain on the sending end, it can make it 300
feet still strong enough to drive a 950-1450mhz satellite receiver over
quad shielded RG11. Those teeny little cables they put on so-called 7DBI
antennas actually have a loss of several DB/meter. I have one of those,
tested at about + 0.5 DB over the cards rubber ducky at its best placement.
Needless to say, any connectivity I have in the attached workshop,
separated from here by 3 walls, one of which still has the alu house siding
on it, is by way of a 150 foot cat5 cable to the outbuilding my cnc mill is
in, thru a 100base-t hub out there, and another 100 foot of cat5 across the
yard and in a side window of the garage. PIMA, but it works. That first
150 footer has been strung overhead, swinging in the wind for at least 6
years now, and in fact survived a wind on June 24 that took down 3 of the 5
mature trees on my property, and measured 112 mph on a recording anemometer
about a block away, downwind. I am amazed that a common piece of Belden
blue cat5, right out of a 1000' box, is still working, but it is.

[root@coyote linux-2.6.35.1]# ping shop
PING shop.coyote.den (192.168.71.4) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from shop.coyote.den (192.168.71.4): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=1.76
ms
64 bytes from shop.coyote.den (192.168.71.4): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.142
ms
64 bytes from shop.coyote.den (192.168.71.4): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.140
ms

--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
He is now rising from affluence to poverty.
-- Mark Twain
--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Bob Goodwin 08-07-2010 09:54 PM

F-13 qnw wireless routers -
 
On 07/08/10 17:32, Gene Heskett wrote:
>
> Absolutely Bob. About the practical Maximum Usable Frequency of coax is in
> the 2.2 Ghz range, and that is for 1.625 inch heliax or better yet, rigid.
> About $7 to $12/foot, used. I have used smaller stuff, but at 1.5Ghz
> ranges, with buckets of powered gain on the sending end, it can make it 300
> feet still strong enough to drive a 950-1450mhz satellite receiver over
> quad shielded RG11. Those teeny little cables they put on so-called 7DBI
> antennas actually have a loss of several DB/meter. I have one of those,
> tested at about + 0.5 DB over the cards rubber ducky at its best placement.
> Needless to say, any connectivity I have in the attached workshop,
> separated from here by 3 walls, one of which still has the alu house siding
> on it, is by way of a 150 foot cat5 cable to the outbuilding my cnc mill is
> in, thru a 100base-t hub out there, and another 100 foot of cat5 across the
> yard and in a side window of the garage. PIMA, but it works. That first
> 150 footer has been strung overhead, swinging in the wind for at least 6
> years now, and in fact survived a wind on June 24 that took down 3 of the 5
> mature trees on my property, and measured 112 mph on a recording anemometer
> about a block away, downwind. I am amazed that a common piece of Belden
> blue cat5, right out of a 1000' box, is still working, but it is.
>
> [root@coyote linux-2.6.35.1]# ping shop
> PING shop.coyote.den (192.168.71.4) 56(84) bytes of data.
> 64 bytes from shop.coyote.den (192.168.71.4): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=1.76
> ms
> 64 bytes from shop.coyote.den (192.168.71.4): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.142
> ms
> 64 bytes from shop.coyote.den (192.168.71.4): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.140
> ms
>

Those look like good numbers, better than I am getting through 15 ft
and a gigabit switch. I hope the format doesn't get mangled?

[bobg@box9 ~]$ ping -c3 192.168.1.48
PING 192.168.1.48 (192.168.1.48) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 192.168.1.48: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.796 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.48: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.144 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.48: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.161 ms

--- 192.168.1.48 ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2000ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.144/0.367/0.796/0.303 ms

--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

g 08-08-2010 12:11 AM

F-13 qnw wireless routers -
 
On 08/07/2010 08:30 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
<snip>

> G, I have antennas all over, but these two boxes I am messing with have no
> connectors.

hello bob,

no connectors? usb or cheap cards?

some usb wifi have a hidden connector.

i have never seen a wifi card that you could not change antenna or remove
and connect a coax cable. and yes, i know i have not seen all cards. ;)

if cheap cards and you are handy with a soldering iron, cut the antennas
out at mount bracket and solder coax direct to pcb. :)

> Not only that but cable losses are very high at these frequencies and more
> than a few inches of cable will cost you more in loss than you can gain
> with directivity.

yes, the higher the frequency, the greater the loss. but there is 'low loss'
coax for vhf and micro freqs.

do not know off hand, but will have a quick look at belden wire;
http://www.belden.com/

selecting 'ecatalog' brings up;
https://edeskv2.belden.com/Products/

entering 'wireless' in search produces,
https://edeskv2.belden.com/Products/#s=wireless&r=0

double clicking 1st in list of coax cables, 1671a, produces spec sheet;

https://edeskv2.belden.com/Products/index.cfm?event=showproductdetail&partid=3462

scrolling down page shows table;

Nom. Attenuation:

Freq. (MHz) Attenuation (dB/100 ft.)
500 15.0
1000 22.2
2000 32.8
3000 41.2
5000 54.9

which would be 0.549 per foot or, 0.04575 per inch.

i do not know what you consider 'losses are very high at these frequencies',
but i would call it *not much loss*. ;)

i would imagine if i checked specs on some other low loss cables, loss may
very well be less.

if you want to know what they are, have a look. just follow above link.


> 5 gHz probably wants wave guide ...

lower loss, yes. but coax is cheaper. :^P


some more info i found while waiting for your reply;


google, diy "5gh" "wifi+antenna";
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&&sa=X&ei=YdVdT OH8N4WglAf1vcSpCA&ved=0CBwQBSgA&q=diy+"5gh"+"wifi% 2Bantenna"&spell=1

diy video;
http://www.5min.com/Tag/wifi antenna?CategoryID=0

diy yagi;
http://www.k7mem.150m.com/Electronic_Notebook/antennas/yagi_vhf.html

commercial;
http://www.alternativewireless.com/
http://www.alternativewireless.com/cellular-antennas/building-cellular-repeater-systems.html?gclid=CL-zxMO5qKMCFRRsswod6Bb45g
http://www.wifi-link.com/


be aware that in all of links i am feeding you, they are all for 'high gain'
directional antennas.

this may not be acceptable. if not, there are also omni directional antennas
that can be use, but they only have 8db to 10db gains.

if you have to have omni direction, i suggest using an inline amp to boost
signal to and from wifi card.


hth.

--

peace out.

tc,hago.

g
.

****
in a free world without fences, who needs gates.
**
help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today.
**
to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it.
to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it.
**
learn linux:
'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html
'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/
'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html
'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/
****

--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

g 08-08-2010 12:15 AM

F-13 qnw wireless routers -
 
On 08/07/2010 09:32 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
<snip>

> Absolutely Bob.

*not*

get your head out of cb radio days and rg58 days. :)

--

peace out.

tc,hago.

g
.

****
in a free world without fences, who needs gates.
**
help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today.
**
to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it.
to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it.
**
learn linux:
'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html
'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/
'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html
'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/
****

--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Gene Heskett 08-08-2010 01:46 AM

F-13 qnw wireless routers -
 
On Saturday, August 07, 2010 09:42:56 pm Bob Goodwin did opine:

> > [root@coyote linux-2.6.35.1]# ping shop
> > PING shop.coyote.den (192.168.71.4) 56(84) bytes of data.
> > 64 bytes from shop.coyote.den (192.168.71.4): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64
> > time=1.76 ms
> > 64 bytes from shop.coyote.den (192.168.71.4): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64
> > time=0.142 ms
> > 64 bytes from shop.coyote.den (192.168.71.4): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64
> > time=0.140 ms
>
> Those look like good numbers, better than I am getting through 15 ft
> and a gigabit switch. I hope the format doesn't get mangled?
>
> [bobg@box9 ~]$ ping -c3 192.168.1.48
> PING 192.168.1.48 (192.168.1.48) 56(84) bytes of data.
> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.48: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.796 ms
> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.48: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.144 ms
> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.48: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.161 ms
>
> --- 192.168.1.48 ping statistics ---
> 3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2000ms
> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.144/0.367/0.796/0.303 ms

Your switch may be buffering it, most likely is, so there might account for
a few microseconds additional delay. 'shop' isn't a big iron machine
either, 1600mhz single core Athlon XP-1400, kubuntu-6.06.

--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
It is illegal to drive more than two thousand sheep down Hollywood
Boulevard at one time.
--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Gene Heskett 08-08-2010 01:59 AM

F-13 qnw wireless routers -
 
On Saturday, August 07, 2010 09:49:35 pm g did opine:

> On 08/07/2010 08:30 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> <snip>
>
> double clicking 1st in list of coax cables, 1671a, produces spec sheet;
>
> https://edeskv2.belden.com/Products/index.cfm?event=showproductdetail&pa
> rtid=3462
>
> scrolling down page shows table;
>
> Nom. Attenuation:
>
> Freq. (MHz) Attenuation (dB/100 ft.)
> 500 15.0
> 1000 22.2
> 2000 32.8
> 3000 41.2
> 5000 54.9

Those figures are getting really close to being a good dummy load, that is
like putting in a volt at 2Ghz, and getting a hair over than .0005 volt
out. Low loss in this case is only in the mind of the copy writer, whose
job is to sell the cable.

At 5Ghz, assuming no wrinkles or bends to cause a reflection, it IS a good
dummy load, with a VSWR so close to 1/1 as to not be detectable without
some very fancy measuring gear. The round trip loss of 109.8 db is a dummy
load even if the far end of the cable is shorted or unconnected.

--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Vote anarchist.
--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:04 PM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.