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Old 01-17-2008, 01:17 AM
Ed Greshko
 
Default Video Standard Q: (Was New Thread....about anything but Pulseaudio or yum)

max wrote:
Does anyone want to discuss anything besides yum or pulseaudio? anything
at all? I wear a size 10.5 shoe. I don't like shoes without laces. I
don't like thick shoes.


Well, I had one OT question rolling around in my head that I've resisted
asking about. It is having to do with displays and the sales literature put
out by some manufactures. I know there are folks on the list with broadcast
standards experience...


So, I wonder what "106% NTSC color capability" means. If NTSC is a standard
then how can you have over 100% capability?


FWIW, I am looking to get a new LCD monitor and have run into that statement
which makes me wonder.


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Old 01-17-2008, 01:49 AM
max
 
Default Video Standard Q: (Was New Thread....about anything but Pulseaudio or yum)

Ed Greshko wrote:

max wrote:
Does anyone want to discuss anything besides yum or pulseaudio?
anything at all? I wear a size 10.5 shoe. I don't like shoes without
laces. I don't like thick shoes.


Well, I had one OT question rolling around in my head that I've
resisted asking about. It is having to do with displays and the sales
literature put out by some manufactures. I know there are folks on
the list with broadcast standards experience...


So, I wonder what "106% NTSC color capability" means. If NTSC is a
standard then how can you have over 100% capability?


FWIW, I am looking to get a new LCD monitor and have run into that
statement which makes me wonder.



Maybe it's like giving 110%....

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Old 01-17-2008, 03:46 AM
Gene Heskett
 
Default Video Standard Q: (Was New Thread....about anything but Pulseaudio or yum)

On Wednesday 16 January 2008, Ed Greshko wrote:
>max wrote:
>> Does anyone want to discuss anything besides yum or pulseaudio? anything
>> at all? I wear a size 10.5 shoe. I don't like shoes without laces. I
>> don't like thick shoes.
>
>Well, I had one OT question rolling around in my head that I've resisted
>asking about. It is having to do with displays and the sales literature put
>out by some manufactures. I know there are folks on the list with broadcast
>standards experience...
>
>So, I wonder what "106% NTSC color capability" means. If NTSC is a standard
>then how can you have over 100% capability?
>
>FWIW, I am looking to get a new LCD monitor and have run into that statement
>which makes me wonder.

I am a BC engineer, a practical one with 45 years of experience keeping a tv
station on the air, but not a 'papered' one if you will. I have set up
enough systems that I don't ever trust my eyes without first checking the
vectorscope to see if the signal is good in the first place. If its not, I
try to see if I can fix the signal's problems first.

I have seen some truly horrible color being displayed on both crt and
lcd/ldp/plasma screens when the signal itself was good. A goodly number of
the light sources used in these displays are broken in terms of color
faithfullness, so badly the display itself in front of that light source
never has a chance to 'do it right'.

However, there are effectively two std's for color bars, and the one generally
used is one where the peak white modulation caused by the subcarrier is held
to 100 IRE on the waveform monitors display, a setting which is scaled from
the rather arbitrary 0 to 100% power scale such that the 10% power point
represents this peak modulation. White, as generated by feeding an
approximately 71% amplitude signal into all 3 ports of an RGB encoder, will
come back out as a monochrome signal of this same roughly 71% amplitude, but
to explain how that relates to the peak, if we feed a 71% red and a 71% green
and a 0% blue, we will get an output whose luminance level is slightly
reduced, containing the added color subcarrier in an amplitude that will make
the waveform envelope on waveform monitors screen show a 100% peak white, and
the vectorscope displays dot of this decoded color information should occupy
the small box labeled y for yellow, which is a total lack of its complement,
blue.

I could go on, but have probably lost the non-technical folks already.

I'll make another observation that will surprise a lot of folks here.
Generally speaking, the vectorscopes display is race neutral. The
vectorscopes display of the human face/skin goes up the same degree line on
the scope regardless of the racial content of the person being photographed.
Far northern paleface, or blackest kenyan, its all the same to the
vectorscope.

Even color blind people can adjust the controls on one of our processing
amplifiers, using the vectorscope display, by waiting till there is a goodly
amount of skin, as in a closeup of a face, and then putting that faces
display blob as seen on the scope, on this line. Everything else will just
fall into place. We have several people at the tv station who are color
blind and do exactly that, and have been doing so for 20 some years. Very
talented people, and whom we've never considered their being color blind as a
handicap. In fact there are advantages to it, being able to see in the dark
much better that I, with excellent color vision can, being one of those
advantages.

--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Too clever is dumb.
-- Ogden Nash

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Old 01-17-2008, 03:55 AM
Gene Heskett
 
Default Video Standard Q: (Was New Thread....about anything but Pulseaudio or yum)

On Wednesday 16 January 2008, max wrote:
>Ed Greshko wrote:
>> max wrote:
>>> Does anyone want to discuss anything besides yum or pulseaudio?
>>> anything at all? I wear a size 10.5 shoe. I don't like shoes without
>>> laces. I don't like thick shoes.
>>
>> Well, I had one OT question rolling around in my head that I've
>> resisted asking about. It is having to do with displays and the sales
>> literature put out by some manufactures. I know there are folks on
>> the list with broadcast standards experience...
>>
>> So, I wonder what "106% NTSC color capability" means. If NTSC is a
>> standard then how can you have over 100% capability?
>>
>> FWIW, I am looking to get a new LCD monitor and have run into that
>> statement which makes me wonder.
>
>Maybe it's like giving 110%....

Or like the cartoon says, "I give 100% at the office, 20% Monday, 20%
Tuesday..."

I didn't address that bit of advertising weeviling before, but my guess is its
some dweeb in marketing trying to say this particular color is 6% brighter
than its supposed to be. If that's the only prevarication we get out of the
average marketing type, consider us lucky. The truth has been stretched a
hell of a lot farther than that on a daily basis, just watch our least
favorite talking mouth, hawking whatever it is he's peddling to lonely
housewives today for an example.

--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
You can't take it with you -- especially when crossing a state line.

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Old 01-17-2008, 03:35 PM
Robin Laing
 
Default Video Standard Q: (Was New Thread....about anything but Pulseaudio or yum)

Gene Heskett wrote:

On Wednesday 16 January 2008, Ed Greshko wrote:

max wrote:


I'll make another observation that will surprise a lot of folks here.
Generally speaking, the vectorscopes display is race neutral. The
vectorscopes display of the human face/skin goes up the same degree line on
the scope regardless of the racial content of the person being photographed.
Far northern paleface, or blackest kenyan, its all the same to the
vectorscope.




Now I know why some techs setting up a small studio used a porn video.


--
Robin Laing

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Old 01-18-2008, 03:26 AM
Gene Heskett
 
Default Video Standard Q: (Was New Thread....about anything but Pulseaudio or yum)

On Thursday 17 January 2008, Robin Laing wrote:
>Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Wednesday 16 January 2008, Ed Greshko wrote:
>>> max wrote:
>>
>> I'll make another observation that will surprise a lot of folks here.
>> Generally speaking, the vectorscopes display is race neutral. The
>> vectorscopes display of the human face/skin goes up the same degree line
>> on the scope regardless of the racial content of the person being
>> photographed. Far northern paleface, or blackest kenyan, its all the same
>> to the vectorscope.
>
>Now I know why some techs setting up a small studio used a porn video.
>
>
Well, I suppose the 'more skin' argument does have merit for the job at
hand.

>--
>Robin Laing



--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
"... freedom ... is a worship word..."
"It is our worship word too."
-- Cloud William and Kirk, "The Omega Glory", stardate unknown

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Old 01-18-2008, 04:57 AM
Ed Greshko
 
Default Video Standard Q: (Was New Thread....about anything but Pulseaudio or yum)

Markku Kolkka wrote:
Ed Greshko kirjoitti viestissään (lähetysaika torstai, 17.
tammikuuta 2008):

So, I wonder what "106% NTSC color capability" means. If NTSC
is a standard then how can you have over 100% capability?


The color primaries of NTSC(1979) form a triangle in the CIE 1931
color space that has an area of 0.104 (if I recall my math
correctly). If the display has a color gamut with an area of
0.11, it can be said to have "106% NTSC color capability". It
could be for example a sRGB or PAL display.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RGB_color_space
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIE_1931_color_space



Now, that sounds like were the folks from ViewSonic are coming from...

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