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Old 05-19-2008, 12:50 AM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default

Terrible! I'm tired. Hope you understand what I want and what somebody
doesn't want ... I hate my broken English and I won't try to write it
correct now.

Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> Oops
>
> "I won't" ... not "won't", it should be "want"
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: PS: [64studio-users] Suggestion for a poll
> Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 02:39:08 +0200
> From: Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>
> To: Nate figlar <sonorone@gmail.com>
> CC: 64studio-users mailing list <64studio-users@64studio.com>
> References: <4830AF9F.2070402@alice-dsl.net>
> <ef5a1c020805181648i5be28fcfo87816f1fcd478b20@mail .gmail.com>
>
>
>
> A friend is drawing comics, he is using several Macs and a Vista. He
> bought an old MacOS (9.x) for his new Macs .
>
> I told him to use Linux or if he won't do this XP, but he will spend
> money, again and again.
>
> I won't to know, how we can make people use Linux.
>
> Nate figlar wrote: [...]
>

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Old 05-19-2008, 01:48 AM
"Terrell Prud Jr."
 
Default

Steve Lamb wrote:

Terrell Prud Jr. wrote:


You're free to forego your freedom if you want.



Forgo what freedom? See, people like you seem to forget that freedom
means being able to something which seems contrary to one's interests. The
full statement is freedom of choice. It isn't the outcome that matters, it is
the choice. Having only "positive" outcomes as prescribed by others is no
/choice/ and thus no freedom.




I noticed that you deleted the rest of the line, after the word
"want."* I actually agreed with you...but maybe you just don't like the
full implications?* :-)



As I said, you are free to let yourself get run over by a car or jump
off of a very high bridge if you wish.* I never denied that; it is
indeed your right to do so.* But when you die from doing that, don't
complain.* :-)



Likewise, if/when Microsoft pulls out the patent or copyright nuke
against anything with Mono dependencies, and your favorite piece of
software goes bye-bye in the process, don't complain.* If you've
committed your company to something with Mono dependencies, your
company gets threatened or sued, and you end up in the unemployment
line, don't complain.



The problem isn't making the choices.* The problem is that folks like
you tend to whine when you have to face the inevitable fallout of that
choice.* Then you cry, "Waah! Waah!* Bail me out, someone, it's not my
fault!"* Umm...yes, it is.* You had the freedom to make the
choice...and you made it.* Now sleep in the bed you made for yourself.



--TP



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Old 05-19-2008, 04:43 AM
Steve Lamb
 
Default

Terrell Prud Jr. wrote:
> I noticed that you deleted the rest of the line, after the word "want."
> I actually agreed with you...but maybe you just don't like the full
> implications? :-)

Because it wasn't germane to the point and it certainly wasn't agreeing
with me.

> The problem is that folks like
> you tend to whine when you have to face the inevitable fallout of that
> choice. Then you cry, "Waah! Waah! Bail me out, someone, it's not my
> fault!" Umm...yes, it is. You had the freedom to make the choice...and
> you made it. Now sleep in the bed you made for yourself.

Folks like me? *looks around* You mean the one using KUbuntu and thus
don't have Mono loaded onto my system? People like me who thought the deal
with QT wasn't so bad way back when and dislike the idea of GNOME since it was
created solely to bring KDE down? People like me who's finding it supremely
ironic that QT was the devilspawn and is now ok while the very project that
went into battle the horridness that was Trolltech is now in bed with Microsoft?

Yeah. Sorry, difference 'tween you and me is that while you talk about
"oh, that's freedom" and append "but you'll be SOOORRRRRYYYYY" like you're
telling some urban legend to children I just leave it at the first part. It's
their freedom. Full stop.

Now, would you care to apologize for your presumptions on knowing me?

--
Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream?
PGP Key: 1FC01004 | And dream I do...
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------

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Old 05-19-2008, 04:55 AM
Mario Vukelic
 
Default

On Sun, 2008-05-18 at 21:48 -0400, "Terrell Prud Jr." wrote:
> Likewise, if/when Microsoft pulls out the patent or copyright nuke
> against anything with Mono dependencies, and your favorite piece of
> software goes bye-bye in the process, don't complain.

As I noted elsewhere in this thread, MS already claims (unsubstantiated)
patent violations in the kernel. Furthermore, given the state of the US
"IP" laws, there is probably scarcely any software that does not violate
patents. Thus, as Linus has written, it is best to ignore them.

What exactly is supposed to be different with mono?


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Old 05-19-2008, 05:02 AM
"Justin Gruenberg"
 
Default

On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 11:55 PM, Mario Vukelic
<mario.vukelic@dantian.org> wrote:
> As I noted elsewhere in this thread, MS already claims (unsubstantiated)
> patent violations in the kernel. Furthermore, given the state of the US
> "IP" laws, there is probably scarcely any software that does not violate
> patents. Thus, as Linus has written, it is best to ignore them.
>
> What exactly is supposed to be different with mono?


They also haven't published a list of what parts of the kernel
infringe on their patents. At this point, they're merely spreading
FUD.

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Old 05-19-2008, 04:36 PM
Mario Vukelic
 
Default

On Mon, 2008-05-19 at 03:32 -0400, "Terrell Prud Jr." wrote:
> Microsoft would find it considerably easier to "plant" or "get
> planted" their own copyrighted code into Mono than they would with,
> say, dotGNU or Samba.

Well whatever, since the claims of the FUD artists seem to change all
the time, I will refrain from adding any more to this pointless thread.
So far it was about patents, now suddenly MS is planting code in mono.
Whatever.


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Old 05-19-2008, 06:05 PM
NoOp
 
Default

On 05/18/2008 09:43 PM, Steve Lamb wrote:
> Terrell Prud Jr. wrote:
>> I noticed that you deleted the rest of the line, after the word "want."
>> I actually agreed with you...but maybe you just don't like the full
>> implications? :-)

Sounder is that-a-way ====>



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Old 05-19-2008, 08:20 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default

Dotan Cohen wrote:

> 2008/5/12 Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca>:
>> Oh sure - and you could get yourself a week of flames for even bringing
>> up the subject of Webmin...
>
> You'd get flamed for using it, but the community would help you
> configure anything that you need, the right way. They'd rather teach
> you to fish than give you a fish. That's why I use Debian on the
> desktop. I use Ubuntu on the laptop with the problematic hardware,
> however.

That's _exactly_ the Debian problem. The "right" way is a matter of
opinion. While Webmin modules often have problems, the problem is not
_webmin_ - it's the individual modules. Personally (and list members
should by now be getting tired of hearing me say this) I believe that GUI
admin tools are _always_ the right way to do configuration, and this is
pretty much anathema to many of the hardline debian geeks. Configuration
should always be possible through a question/answer system, rather than
hand-editing, because even the most experienced users make mistakes when
hand-editing, while a GUI tool should always prevent syntactic errors.
--
derek


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Old 05-19-2008, 09:45 PM
"Dotan Cohen"
 
Default

2008/5/19 Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca>:
> Configuration
> should always be possible through a question/answer system, rather than
> hand-editing, because even the most experienced users make mistakes when
> hand-editing, while a GUI tool should always prevent syntactic errors.

I very much disagree with you on this one. Configuration should be
unambiguous and easy to edit. What kind of GUI config would you use
when you ssh into your server? Even on my desktop, I try to use the
cli for configuration as much as possible. Other than kcontrol, I
haven't used a gui configuration tool since at least Ubuntu 7.04.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-*-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:08 PM
Mike Bird
 
Default

On Mon May 19 2008 14:45:38 Dotan Cohen wrote:
> 2008/5/19 Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca>:
> > Configuration
> > should always be possible through a question/answer system, rather than
> > hand-editing, because even the most experienced users make mistakes when
> > hand-editing, while a GUI tool should always prevent syntactic errors.
>
> I very much disagree with you on this one. Configuration should be
> unambiguous and easy to edit. What kind of GUI config would you use
> when you ssh into your server? Even on my desktop, I try to use the
> cli for configuration as much as possible. Other than kcontrol, I
> haven't used a gui configuration tool since at least Ubuntu 7.04.

I think the key is in the words "should" and "possible".

Believe it or not, some silly routers cannot be configured remotely
without a web connection. Some kinds of problems, which can be fixed
on a Cisco via a telnet chain, require rolling an engineer to the
colo for silly routers. Let's not make that mistake with Ubuntu.

Configs MUST always be readily understandable and modifiable by
both humans-with-texteditors and programs. Simple text config
files and maybe XML are acceptable; Windoze registry is not.

Derek's point is that it SHOULD also be possible to edit configs
via a question/answer system with syntactic and consistency checks.

--Mike Bird

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