On Wed, 2008-05-14 at 18:17 -0400, Bob McConnell wrote:
>
> It introduces patented Microsoft tools and processes into Linux

Um, no it doesn't. It reimplements an ECMA standard, and _optionally_
lets you execute stuff like Win.Forms that are part of MS's .NET.

None of the mono applications that are currently used require Win.Forms
or ASP.Net. They just use gtk# as a toolkit, C# as a language, and the
mono runtime.

> and will make it possible for Ballmer and Co. to shut down all Linux
> development. Don't accept that compromise if you want your system to
> remain free.

And if you are at it, please also remove Samba, OpenOffice, and lots of
other stuff.


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On Thu, 2008-05-15 at 07:28 +0200, Mario Vukelic wrote:
> and lots of other stuff

Don't forget to remove the kernel, after all MS claims it uses MS
patents.


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reader@newsguy.com schrieb:

Justin <justin@j-schmitz.net> writes:



It appears to be, at root, just another snivel about how MS does
things with no substance.




I understand it the other way round. It is not an active knocking on
your ports, but a passive MS thing. Lots of Chinese bought a new
computer with an MS operating system, which is sending out to the
world.



Justin,
A moments thought would indicate that logic has a large flaw in it.
MS is the largest selling OS world wide .. that would indicate I
should see this traffic from all parts of the world. But what I see is
probably 85 % chinese in origin.


Didn't they made a low cost version for the far east market? Perhaps
they saved the money by reducing such things!?

I think Mick's explanation is plausible.

On Thursday 15 May 2008, Justin wrote:

> Didn't they made a low cost version for the far east market? Perhaps
> they saved the money by reducing such things!?
> I think Mick's explanation is plausible.

The released a low-cost, cut-down, crippled version for places where
piracy was rampant. I think it was priced as low as USD 2-3, but the
actual price was based on what the local market could "afford" (ie it had
to be competitive with pirate copies). This crippled version of Windows
only allowed the simultaneous "running" of 2 or 3 applications.

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Matthew East pisze:
> On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 9:23 PM, Richard A. Johnson
> <nixternal@kubuntu.org> wrote:
>> On Sunday 09 March 2008, Przemys=C5=82aw Kulczycki wrote:
>> | Hi guys.
>> | The Ubuntu wiki is getting more spam lately.
>> | See the recent changes page and look for massive page attachment
>> | addings. All the attachements are the same - files with text and li=
nks
>> | to porn sites. All are uploaded by the same user: Gera76ru.
>=20
> {snip}
>=20
>> I just notified the sys admins on IRC about it. Thanks for the heads =
up! Looks
>> like I may need to go back to watching the wiki pages again, which I =
really
>> don't want to do, but seeing as our wiki is so freakin' outdated, it =
just might
>> have to be done.
>=20
> While there may be something that can be done in our moin installation
> about this, I wouldn't count on it - another way to help is to report
> the nicknames to the Launchpad admins on #launchpad or via
> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad and ask for the accounts to be
> deactivated.

The spam bots are back, even though their accounts were deleted some=20
time ago. And there are more of them (users and spam pages).
See https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/26722

--=20
## Przemys=C5=82aw Kulczycki <<>> Azrael Nightwalker ##
# jabber: azrael[na]jabster.pl | tlen: azrael29a #
### www: http://reksio.ftj.agh.edu.pl/~azrael/ ###


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On Thursday 15 May 2008, reader@newsguy.com wrote:
> Justin <justin@j-schmitz.net> writes:

> > I understand it the other way round. It is not an active knocking on
> > your ports, but a passive MS thing. Lots of Chinese bought a new
> > computer with an MS operating system, which is sending out to the
> > world.
>
> Justin,
> A moments thought would indicate that logic has a large flaw in it.
> MS is the largest selling OS world wide .. that would indicate I
> should see this traffic from all parts of the world. But what I see is
> probably 85 % chinese in origin.

The large flaw in logic you noticed may be smaller than initial assumptions
would suggest. In essence the Chinese MSWindows users are new in the scene
and not as technically savvy as their primarily western counterparts. The
latter have been through the educational cycle of getting infected and
reinstalling WinXP a few times over. Arguably the Chinese machines are not
as well patched, or updated (you can google for figures of illegitimate WinXP
copies in Asia . . . )

It can't be a coincidence that the highest growth in botnets is closely
correlated with the arrival of capitalistic consumerism in developing
countries like China, Eastern Europe, Russia and South America.
--
Regards,
Mick

Mario Vukelic wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-05-14 at 18:17 -0400, Bob McConnell wrote:
>> It introduces patented Microsoft tools and processes into Linux
>
> Um, no it doesn't.

Then why did Novell sign a patent covenant and pay license fees to
Microsoft in order to continue to develop and distribute it?

> It reimplements an ECMA standard, and _optionally_
> lets you execute stuff like Win.Forms that are part of MS's .NET.

And who do you think drafted that standard? ECMA is a collection of
corporations rubber stamping each others' documentation in an attempt to
give it some minimal appearance of respectability. Nothing more, nothing
less. It does not require any patent releases for those documents. To
the contrary, many of their so called "standards" are encumbered by
patents and require both license agreements and royalty payments.

> And if you are at it, please also remove Samba, OpenOffice, and lots of
> other stuff.

Not until reverse engineering is outlawed. Even though the DMCA
attempted to do that, it hasn't happened yet. The Mono project on the
other hand, is now using internal documentation and code from Microsoft,
guaranteed to include restrictions that will force them to abandon any
OSI approved license. If you become dependent on it, you will also be
forced to accept Microsoft's conditions to move forward.

The first thing I did after installing Ubuntu was to remove Mono and
everything dependent on it. With the increase in dependency shown by
Hardy, I will be looking for a different distribution for the next update.

Bob McConnell
N2SPP

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> The first thing I did after installing Ubuntu was to remove Mono and
> everything dependent on it. With the increase in dependency shown by
> Hardy, I will be looking for a different distribution for the next update.

Very well said, I agree with your sentiments entirely.

Any distro that claims to care about true software freedom cannot
include Mono in it (IMHO).

Chris

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On 05/15/2008 07:26 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
>> The first thing I did after installing Ubuntu was to remove Mono and
>> everything dependent on it. With the increase in dependency shown by
>> Hardy, I will be looking for a different distribution for the next update.
>
> Very well said, I agree with your sentiments entirely.
>
> Any distro that claims to care about true software freedom cannot
> include Mono in it (IMHO).

http://www.ubuntu.com/products/WhatIsUbuntu/desktopedition
http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/gobuntu
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Gobuntu

Next.


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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Jones
> Any distro that claims to care about true software freedom cannot
> include Mono in it (IMHO).

Say what? Wouldn't 'true software freedom' mean that I can use *any*
software I want? Even if it isn't open source?

Then again, I might be biased, as I would like to do some Mono work so I
would not have to use MS. So the original thread does have some appeal
for me.


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On Wed, 2008-05-14 at 12:41 -0400, Luke Macken wrote:
> On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 11:03:38AM -0500, Mike McGrath wrote:
> >
> > > Forwarding to fedora-infrastructure-list soit canget more exposure and
> > > discussion.
> > >
> > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > Subject: Tosca widgets, only half the battle
> > > Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 12:27:36 -0400
> > > From: John (J5) Palmieri <johnp@redhat.com>
> > > To: Toshio Kuratomi <a.badger@gmail.com>
> > > CC: tcallawa@redhat.com, lmacken@redhat.com, mmcgrath@redhat.com
> > >
> > > After hacking away at MyFedora and producing a lot of ugly code in the
> > > process I finally sat down the last two weeks to organize everything
> > > into a framework make it much more extensible and have patterns for
> > > people to easily create content. Most of the technologies are
> > > solidifying into my head and I have been working on hashing out an API
> > > design behind the user interaction design I had started with. The issue
> > > I am running into now is the fact that Turbo Gears and related
> > > technology come from a monolithic design and adhere too stringently to
> > > the Model/View/Controller design pattern. This is really an issue when
> > > your models, views and controllers can come from different applications
> > > or even different servers. MyFedora is of course a mashup of different
> > > tools and does not fit the, I'm grabbing data from a single database and
> > > displaying it via a self contained template, mold. What I need is a
> > > complete plugin system where a person can write their own self contained
> > > controllers, templates and static files which then drop in and are
> > > loaded on the fly, while integrating with the global project.
> > >
> >
> > Do we want the myfedora app to be coded in such a way that it works with
> > lots of technologies? or do we want to define a standard that the
> > technologies can implement to make it work with myfedora?
>
> I'd like to see us re-use and be compatible with as many existing
> technologies and standards as possible. I don't necessarily see any
> value in re-inventing our own. That is, unless we have a sound reason
> to?
>
> luke

Exactly, I would want a standard way of doing things at least in the
MyFedora plugin context. This is why I didn't want to get away from
templates and controllers (or something else that will be standard for a
long time). Ideally someone who knows how to write a TG app should be
able to write a plugin with a little glue code added and files shuffled
around.

--
John (J5) Palmieri <johnp@redhat.com>

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