> I think the problem is not really the social contract, what it currently
> says is just fine, and we all agree with it.

ACK.

> We have free stuff, which is in main, and non-free stuff of diverse
> variety, which is in non-free (plus the hybrid contrib).
>
> My own guess is that all those clamoring to have non-free firmware and
> non-free documentation or images or whatever in main, would be just as
> satisfied if we decided to support non-free more (and maybe put choice
> non-free stuff on our CD medias).

I also agree in parts with you.
There was already somewhere a discussion about, my opinion is, that it
would be good to have e.g. an additional non-free netinstaller medium,
which includes non-free parts like bnx2 firmwares, some non-free drivers
which are necessary to run this machine and to get a connectivity (so on
also WLAN blobs).
e.g. we have some servers with those bnx2 (aka brotcom netextreme II)
cards, with the netinstaller we can not get a connectivity to the
network, remote installations are so on for the a...

>
> I believe this will satisfy everyeone, there will be no loss of
> freeness over what we have now (we distribute this non-free stuff from
> our ftp/http servers, which is just another distribution media compared
> to CDs), while it allows for transparent installation of those non-free
> drivers, and thus those wanting to be able to install on
> non-free-firmware needing hardware should be happy too.

The point is (except from some realy crazy licenses) that the most ppl
in Debian (I am counting myself to this group) do not want to support
non-free stuff, which is also an enforcement for the vendor/programmer
to switch to a free solution.


--
/*
Mit freundlichem Gruß / With kind regards,
Patrick Matthäi

E-Mail: patrick.matthaei@web.de

Comment:
Always if we think we are right,
we were maybe wrong.
*/


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Harry Putnam wrote:
> Ian Lee <ian@leehouse.eclipse.co.uk> writes:
>
>
>> Ian Lee wrote:
>>
>>> Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:04:23 -0600, Dale wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Probably hotplug, add !net.eth0 to rc_hotplug in /etc/rc.conf
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> That's in /etc/conf.d/rc on mine. Has it moved?
>>>>>
>>>> It moved in the switch from baselayout1 to baselayout2/openrc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> This could be what four looking for
>>>
>>> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=206518
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ian
>>>
>>>
>> try putting rc_coldplug="no" in conf.d/udev or /etc/rc.conf i would
>> assume the udev init script checks both places
>>
>
> I can tell you from trying that just now... that is not a good
> solution.
>
> First setting rc_coldplug="no" has some very bad effects:
> 1) caused my KVM switch setup to be ignored completely, where as with
> with the default "yes" the kvm is recognized soon as I get past
> grub
>
> 2) Very strange behavior with the `screen' tool. I call screen and
> get started but if I do `C-a c' (which should start another screen)
> Instead it prompts me to login and then takes the original screen
> so I can only get one screen, completely defeating the purpose of
> `screen'.
>
>
> I'm also wondering about the wisdom introduciing some esoteric places
> to control services. If someone needs sophisticated controls they can
> set that up, but for the rest of us /etc/conf.d and rc-update should
> be THE central tools to have basic services started at boot.
>
> There should be nothing scrolling thru the network softlinks
> attempting to start anything it finds.
>
>
>
>

If you check mine and Neils post, one of ours will do just what you want
and still allow you to have hotplug set to yes. It just tells hotplug
not to start networks itself and leave it to your own settings with
rc-update. There may also be other things that you can set in there as
well.

Dale

:-) :-)

> Please ignore my moan about java in firefox, I found and installed the
> > missing plug-in
> > and now everything works and I can do my on-line guardian crosswords -
> > luvverly.
> > brian
>

Want to give us a clue as to the name of the plug-in?

Thanks
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sun Java 6.0 Plugin
The Java(TM) Plug-in, Java SE 6

Version 6-10-0ubuntu2 is installed. Package is maintained by /Matthias Klose/

Java Plug-in enables applets written to the Java Platform 6
specification to be run in Mozilla and other web browsers. Java Plug-in
comes with the Java Runtime Environment (JRE).


This is a metapackage containing dependencies for running Java in
various browsers.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


found using Adept on my default mirror. brian



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On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 10:36:08AM -0600, Penguin Lover Harry Putnam squawked:
> > try putting rc_coldplug="no" in conf.d/udev or /etc/rc.conf i would
> > assume the udev init script checks both places
>
> I can tell you from trying that just now... that is not a good
> solution.
>
> First setting rc_coldplug="no" has some very bad effects:
> 1) caused my KVM switch setup to be ignored completely, where as with
> with the default "yes" the kvm is recognized soon as I get past
> grub

I believe this is when rc_coldplug="yes" and rc_plug_services="!*" is
useful. You enable to coldplugging of modules (and thus drive your
kvm) but not start the various services.

I have rc_plug_services="!net.*" on my laptop.

> 2) Very strange behavior with the `screen' tool. I call screen and
> get started but if I do `C-a c' (which should start another screen)
> Instead it prompts me to login and then takes the original screen
> so I can only get one screen, completely defeating the purpose of
> `screen'.

That is really strange....

W
--
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-- Ross MacDonald
Sortir en Pantoufles: up 752 days, 16:30

Dale wrote:

Harry Putnam wrote:

Ian Lee <ian@leehouse.eclipse.co.uk> writes:



Ian Lee wrote:


Neil Bothwick wrote:


On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:04:23 -0600, Dale wrote:



Probably hotplug, add !net.eth0 to rc_hotplug in /etc/rc.conf



That's in /etc/conf.d/rc on mine. Has it moved?


It moved in the switch from baselayout1 to baselayout2/openrc.




This could be what four looking for

http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=206518



Ian



try putting rc_coldplug="no" in conf.d/udev or /etc/rc.conf i would
assume the udev init script checks both places


I can tell you from trying that just now... that is not a good
solution.

First setting rc_coldplug="no" has some very bad effects:
1) caused my KVM switch setup to be ignored completely, where as with
with the default "yes" the kvm is recognized soon as I get past
grub

2) Very strange behavior with the `screen' tool. I call screen and
get started but if I do `C-a c' (which should start another screen)
Instead it prompts me to login and then takes the original screen
so I can only get one screen, completely defeating the purpose of
`screen'.



I'm also wondering about the wisdom introduciing some esoteric places
to control services. If someone needs sophisticated controls they can
set that up, but for the rest of us /etc/conf.d and rc-update should
be THE central tools to have basic services started at boot.

There should be nothing scrolling thru the network softlinks
attempting to start anything it finds.






If you check mine and Neils post, one of ours will do just what you want
and still allow you to have hotplug set to yes. It just tells hotplug
not to start networks itself and leave it to your own settings with
rc-update. There may also be other things that you can set in there as
well.


Dale

:-) :-)



According to the comments hotplugging of services is not allowed by
default, so why do the net.* services get started?

Ian Lee wrote:
> Dale wrote:
>> Harry Putnam wrote:
>>> Ian Lee <ian@leehouse.eclipse.co.uk> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ian Lee wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:04:23 -0600, Dale wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Probably hotplug, add !net.eth0 to rc_hotplug in /etc/rc.conf
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's in /etc/conf.d/rc on mine. Has it moved?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It moved in the switch from baselayout1 to baselayout2/openrc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> This could be what four looking for
>>>>>
>>>>> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=206518
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> try putting rc_coldplug="no" in conf.d/udev or /etc/rc.conf i would
>>>> assume the udev init script checks both places
>>>>
>>> I can tell you from trying that just now... that is not a good
>>> solution.
>>>
>>> First setting rc_coldplug="no" has some very bad effects:
>>> 1) caused my KVM switch setup to be ignored completely, where as with
>>> with the default "yes" the kvm is recognized soon as I get past
>>> grub
>>>
>>> 2) Very strange behavior with the `screen' tool. I call screen and
>>> get started but if I do `C-a c' (which should start another screen)
>>> Instead it prompts me to login and then takes the original screen
>>> so I can only get one screen, completely defeating the purpose of
>>> `screen'.
>>>
>>> I'm also wondering about the wisdom introduciing some esoteric places
>>> to control services. If someone needs sophisticated controls they can
>>> set that up, but for the rest of us /etc/conf.d and rc-update should
>>> be THE central tools to have basic services started at boot.
>>>
>>> There should be nothing scrolling thru the network softlinks
>>> attempting to start anything it finds.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> If you check mine and Neils post, one of ours will do just what you want
>> and still allow you to have hotplug set to yes. It just tells hotplug
>> not to start networks itself and leave it to your own settings with
>> rc-update. There may also be other things that you can set in there as
>> well.
>> Dale
>>
>> :-) :-)
>>
>
> According to the comments hotplugging of services is not allowed by
> default, so why do the net.* services get started?
>
>
Because it does start them unless that line is in the correct file. I
ran into this a good while back and had to add that line to mine as
well. Some of my cards are not even connected to anything and during
boot up it would wait until it timed out before going to the next one.
I have three cards so that got on my nerves to say the least. I think
it was set to timeout=forever or timeout=until-dale-is-pissed. o_O

I would try it and just see if it helps. If not, nothing lost right?

Dale

:-) :-)

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 10:39:57 -0600, Harry Putnam wrote:

> Well that kind of sucks. I don't use eth1 often but I do want it in
> /etc/init.d.
>
> I'm wondering how wise it is to have tools other than re-update and
> /etc/conf.d dinking around with basic services. It seems like starting
> an unwanted ethernet device could even have serious security problems.

That's why you would disable hotplugging for network devices in such a
situation, as described much earlier in this thread,


--
Neil Bothwick

Assassins do it from behind.

Forwarding this to the devel list:
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Hi All,

One Laptop per Child is holding a technical conference called XO Camp 2
at our Headquarters in Cambridge, MA, January 12 - 16 2009. Its right
after Fudcon so we hope people can make it.

The conference will focus on the technical work needed to get our XO
Software Release 9.1.0 shipped.

Conference agenda, address and sign up are here:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XOcamp_2

Sign up or join the conference anytime. Questions and comments welcome
to our engineering list at: http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
or to greg at laptop.org.

Thanks,

Greg Smith OLPC
Product Manager
---

Later,
/B
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Hi!

I am a new user of Kubuntu, newest version. It works fine
but screen frozes after 15-30 min of using.
Can anyone help me with this? Please, tell me all because
I don't know about Linux so much.

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On Friday 02 January 2009 2:51:15 am heidi.kumpumaki@dnainternet.net wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I am a new user of Kubuntu, newest version. It works fine
> but screen frozes after 15-30 min of using.
> Can anyone help me with this? Please, tell me all because
> I don't know about Linux so much.

It sounds like either your hard disk or memory is bad. To check your hard
disk (for a moment there, I typed something other than disk - glad I caught
it), check the man page for fsck on how to run it to check for bad sectors.
For your memory, look on the net for memtest86, burn it to CD and boot off of
it.

And then you might want to see if there's an update for your x.org video
drivers. What video chipset do you have (nvidia, ati, intel, etc.)?

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