Hello, everyone,
I would like to share with you an situation related to Fedora's time
of life that comes to me in recent days.
I was recently promoted to Software Manager in the governmental
partition where I work. Next year we've plans to migrate 500 Linux
desktop stations and, in the last month, finished the migration of all
servers to CentOS.
The question that worries me is that, despite the willingness to use
Fedora, dealing with an "end of life" of 13 months can make Fedora
impractical in these 500 desktops. I'll be pressed to use Ubuntu and
even got to think about maintain by myself an repository for
maintaining, maybe, the most important RPMs always updated even if the
Fedora come to the inevitable 13 months of use.
Perhaps it is time to seek volunteers to bring back the Fedora Legacy
and see if more people are interested this time.

Regards from Brazil


2008/10/11 Patrice Dumas <pertusus@free.fr>:
> On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 04:58:43PM +0200, Till Maas wrote:
>> On Fri October 10 2008, Patrice Dumas wrote:
>>
>> > support from the boards. Some months ago I proposed something for a
>> > fedora lts that was brought down, maybe for good reasons, but the tone
>> > of the discussions really showed very few support, and I'd even say some
>> > antagonism.
>>
>> Iirc you would get support in terms of infrastructure in case you have a clear
>> proposal and enough people doing the work. Also they should show, that they
>> are really interested in doing this for long enough, that it does not look
>> like a failed project. E.g. starting now a Fedora LTS project and ending it
>> next year, because there are not enough maintainers/people interested in
>> doing the work, does not look good for Fedora.
>
> My proposal was clear: start the project when somebody has volunteered
> for each of the packages that are in @code and @base (and maybe other
> comps groups, I don't remember exactly). And keep a page with the
> packages maintained such as not to give wrong expectations.
>
> --
> Pat
>
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>



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-------------------------------------------------------------
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On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 4:55 PM, Henrique Junior <henriquecsj@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello, everyone,
> I would like to share with you an situation related to Fedora's time
> of life that comes to me in recent days.
> I was recently promoted to Software Manager in the governmental
> partition where I work. Next year we've plans to migrate 500 Linux
> desktop stations and, in the last month, finished the migration of all
> servers to CentOS.
> The question that worries me is that, despite the willingness to use
> Fedora, dealing with an "end of life" of 13 months can make Fedora
> impractical in these 500 desktops. I'll be pressed to use Ubuntu and
> even got to think about maintain by myself an repository for
> maintaining, maybe, the most important RPMs always updated even if the
> Fedora come to the inevitable 13 months of use.
> Perhaps it is time to seek volunteers to bring back the Fedora Legacy
> and see if more people are interested this time.
>
> Regards from Brazil


A few points/questions:
* Does CentOS not meet your desktop needs?
* You should have a local repo for 500 machines anyways. You don't
want untested updates going to your 500 machines
* I don't think you're going to label running your desktops on a
Ubuntu LTS release as a "bad thing"
* As I understand it, Fedora Legacy died out of lack of interest, not
due to some intentional action


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Henrique Junior wrote:
> Perhaps it is time to seek volunteers to bring back the Fedora Legacy
> and see if more people are interested this time.

It didn't work with the limited number of packages in 1, 2 and 3 - why (or
how) should it work now with the much larger number of packages available
for F9/10/11? The workload for maintaining legacy systems has increased
manyfold. Sure, the number of people involved also has increased, but ...

Cheers,

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On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 10:28:40 +0100,
Christopher Brown <snecklifter@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> No, you just have to be less of an ass. As a casual observer, all you
> seem to do is throw rocks. Your only sanctuary lies in the totally
> open nature of the project and that it's pretty much impossible to
> boot you off it. In fact, your occasional tantrums bears all the
> hallmarks of ESR before he happily departed these shores - any chance
> you'll be doing the same soon and leave people to get on with the task
> in hand?
>
> If not then please remember that good manners cost nothing.

In that vein there was no reason to gratuitously dis ESR. He had a legitmate
difference of opinion and for a while tried to convince people that Fedora
should go in a different direction. He still contributes indirectly to
Fedora through the Wesnoth project.

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On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 12:01:35AM +0200, Ralph Angenendt wrote:
>
> It didn't work with the limited number of packages in 1, 2 and 3 - why (or
> how) should it work now with the much larger number of packages available
> for F9/10/11? The workload for maintaining legacy systems has increased
> manyfold. Sure, the number of people involved also has increased, but ...

There are many other differences. We can use the rules of fedora (and
could use the infrastructure). And after the merging there are more
involvment of the community in maintaining packages. I was interested in
legacy at some point, but everything was so different than in fedora
extras that it deterred me.

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Hi,
As a desktop, Fedora is the best solution. Should I use the best 2nd
solution? (Ubuntu).
Maybe if we take *some* releases to LLT, lets say, Fedora N, Fedora
N+4. The intermediary releases will be "non LLT".... Well, I know that
Fedora have to worry about all releases, but if we have few people to
work it should be one point.
Maybe it looks crazy.

P.S.: I'm sorry for my poor english.


2008/10/11 Arthur Pemberton <pemboa@gmail.com>:
> On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 4:55 PM, Henrique Junior <henriquecsj@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello, everyone,
>> I would like to share with you an situation related to Fedora's time
>> of life that comes to me in recent days.
>> I was recently promoted to Software Manager in the governmental
>> partition where I work. Next year we've plans to migrate 500 Linux
>> desktop stations and, in the last month, finished the migration of all
>> servers to CentOS.
>> The question that worries me is that, despite the willingness to use
>> Fedora, dealing with an "end of life" of 13 months can make Fedora
>> impractical in these 500 desktops. I'll be pressed to use Ubuntu and
>> even got to think about maintain by myself an repository for
>> maintaining, maybe, the most important RPMs always updated even if the
>> Fedora come to the inevitable 13 months of use.
>> Perhaps it is time to seek volunteers to bring back the Fedora Legacy
>> and see if more people are interested this time.
>>
>> Regards from Brazil
>
>
> A few points/questions:
> * Does CentOS not meet your desktop needs?
> * You should have a local repo for 500 machines anyways. You don't
> want untested updates going to your 500 machines
> * I don't think you're going to label running your desktops on a
> Ubuntu LTS release as a "bad thing"
> * As I understand it, Fedora Legacy died out of lack of interest, not
> due to some intentional action
>
>
> --
> Fedora 9 : sulphur is good for the skin
> ( www.pembo13.com )
>
> --
> fedora-devel-list mailing list
> fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
>



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http://www.lonelyspooky.com
-------------------------------------------------------------
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Bruno Wolff III wrote:

In that vein there was no reason to gratuitously dis ESR. He had a legitmate
difference of opinion and for a while tried to convince people that Fedora
should go in a different direction


Does legitimate difference of opinion involve making false claims about
the impact of patents and trolling?


http://lwn.net/Articles/257586/

Are you actually defending this kind of behaviour?

Rahul

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On Sat October 11 2008, Patrice Dumas wrote:

> My proposal was clear: start the project when somebody has volunteered
> for each of the packages that are in @code and @base (and maybe other
> comps groups, I don't remember exactly). And keep a page with the
> packages maintained such as not to give wrong expectations.

So why don't you start to find the maintainers you need? If you got them
together, it will be a lot easier to get this done.

Regards,
Till
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On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 04:03:11 +0530,
Rahul Sundaram <sundaram@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> Bruno Wolff III wrote:
>> In that vein there was no reason to gratuitously dis ESR. He had a legitmate
>> difference of opinion and for a while tried to convince people that Fedora
>> should go in a different direction
>
> Does legitimate difference of opinion involve making false claims about
> the impact of patents and trolling?

They are independent.

>
> http://lwn.net/Articles/257586/
>
> Are you actually defending this kind of behaviour?

In my opinion ESR's comment there was in poor taste.

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On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 12:42:39AM +0200, Till Maas wrote:
> On Sat October 11 2008, Patrice Dumas wrote:
>
> > My proposal was clear: start the project when somebody has volunteered
> > for each of the packages that are in @code and @base (and maybe other
> > comps groups, I don't remember exactly). And keep a page with the
> > packages maintained such as not to give wrong expectations.
>
> So why don't you start to find the maintainers you need? If you got them
> together, it will be a lot easier to get this done.

There is also the need for some infrastructure. (My proposal here was
just to let the old branches live. At that time there was no packagedb,
now with packagedb it would even be simpler.) Without infrastructure, it
is not really worth gathering maintainers.

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