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Old 10-11-2008, 05:59 PM
Bill Davidsen
 
Default

Aaron Konstam wrote:

On Fri, 2008-10-03 at 12:09 +0930, Tim wrote:

On Thu, 2008-10-02 at 19:36 -0400, Bill Davidsen wrote:

I don't think you understand why there *IS* an announce list...

I do. I don't think some others do, though...

If the announcement was worth sending to both lists, the announcement
can be (and sometimes is - look at the headers for some). What I find
really annoying is someone *else* who decides that they should go about
forwarding from one list to another.


Too many things annoy you. When I have done this it was because people
had complained that important information had been missed on the
announce-list.

Actually I think we agree here. My thought is that announcements should
initially go to both the general and announce list, and if the O.P. doesn't do
that I have no complaint about a forward. It's the forwarding to unrelated
lists, and duplicate forwarding by multiple people, which seen unnecessary.


--
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
"We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot

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Old 10-11-2008, 06:08 PM
Bill Davidsen
 
Default

Paul W. Frields wrote:

On Fri, Oct 03, 2008 at 04:52:02PM -0400, Bill Davidsen wrote:
Any chance of getting support for the Atheros L1E NIC in there? The Linux
driver comes with the ASUS P5Q-SE/R board, for their "Express" Linux, and
appears to be GPL. The reviews on the Newegg site say that OpenSuSE-11
supports the NIC out of the box, so if the license is okay perhaps Fedora
users won't have to hand build a kernel.


I don't know anything about that particular driver, but a quick Google
search for "linux atheros l1e" shows me patches submitted to the
2.6.25.3+ kernel. It may be there now. Have you tried the Fedora 10
Beta to see what happens?

Yes, thanks. The most recent FC9 kernel also seems to include that patch, and
the systems with the ASUS "P5Q SE/R" board work well.


I have not had any luck yet getting the video working in FC10 on bare hardware.
I did do an install on KVM, which works if you ignore the lack of xorg.conf (I
know, new X) and a choice of resolutions limited to 800x600 and no obvious way
to increase it. I tried the default video and the "-std-vga" option, for simple
testing that is adequate.


I will eventually try FC10 on other hardware, it's beta and I don't live or die
by it, FC9 working really well for me other than one laptop.


--
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
"We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot

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Old 10-11-2008, 07:49 PM
"Stephen John Smoogen"
 
Default

2008/10/11 Jesse Keating <jkeating@redhat.com>:
> On Sat, 2008-10-11 at 04:06 -0500, Les Mikesell wrote:
>>
>> There's no lead time for your own local development and testing. You
>> would never expect one of the old RH X.0 releases to be production-ready
>> but the new releases would have new kernels, libraries, and utilities so
>> you could incorporate their features in your own work, which was likely
>> to proceed at approximately the same rate as the distro evolved toward
>> stability. With Centos you don't get anything to work with and test
>> ahead of time, and if you'd tested on an earlier Fedora there may or may
>> not be any relationship. A side effect was that the community of RH
>> users that reported/fixed bugs in the X.0 got something for their effort
>> in being able to continue using the updated release instead of being
>> abandoned as a wildly new X.0 came out.
>
> CentOS should be putting out betas that match the RHEL betas so that you
> can get access to it before the release. Use Fedora as the technology
> driver, use Betas as the bugfix cleanup for platform issues, and
> eventually you get the "Enterprise" release.
>

I think the major problem with CentOS putting out beta's in a timely
basis is that a large amount of time is getting the build resources
together AND then deciphering various build variables that RHEL uses
so that the CentOS binaries 'match' close enough to be bug for bug
compatible. The time to do that basically had a CentOS-5beta out at
the time that RHEL-5 is finalized.





--
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How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed
in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice"

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Old 10-11-2008, 08:04 PM
Luya Tshimbalanga
 
Default

Comment,
Wikipedia - Goodbye Red Hat and Fedora -> At least it is not a farewell

Moving to Ubuntu LTS might not be helpful at long term. The big issue is Ubuntu
LTS was created by Canonical for making money as aiming by Mark Shuttleworth
himself. Canonical as company is not profitable yet since its inception. It
appears more a publicity stunt rather than technical issue because CentOS fill
the gap between Red Hat and Fedora. My main corner is how much Canonical is
giving back to the community, most of time, they try to credit themselves on
something they improve from others.

This is only my opinion which does not necessarily represents the whole
community view.

--
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Fedora Project contributor
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga

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Old 10-11-2008, 08:13 PM
"Stephen John Smoogen"
 
Default

On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 11:53 PM, Ralf Corsepius <rc040203@freenet.de> wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-10-10 at 17:08 -0600, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:

> Sigh, I repeatedly have been trying to do something, but always the same
> "Fedora chiefs" had machine-gunned almost each and every proposal.
>

If I am somehow a chief.. no-one has ever told me. On the other hand,
I do have a lack of patience and a lack of trying to see if there is a
way to work towards Win/Win.

> You know, you have been one of these - Do I really have to be more
> direct?
>

Actually I think you are too direct. You seem to have been
disappointed with how Fedora's leadership has gone, and never seem to
avoid a situation to remind people that. You complain about too much
bueracracy and lack of democracy, but your alternatives seem to be
communicated always as "do as a I say" without compromise.

I know there is a void between us because English and email is not the
easiest language to communicate ideas with. How can we bridge it?

--
Stephen J Smoogen. -- BSD/GNU/Linux
How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed
in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice"

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Old 10-11-2008, 08:21 PM
Ralph Angenendt
 
Default

Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> 2008/10/11 Jesse Keating <jkeating@redhat.com>:
>> CentOS should be putting out betas that match the RHEL betas so that you
>> can get access to it before the release. Use Fedora as the technology
>> driver, use Betas as the bugfix cleanup for platform issues, and
>> eventually you get the "Enterprise" release.
>
> I think the major problem with CentOS putting out beta's in a timely
> basis is that a large amount of time is getting the build resources
> together AND then deciphering various build variables that RHEL uses
> so that the CentOS binaries 'match' close enough to be bug for bug
> compatible. The time to do that basically had a CentOS-5beta out at
> the time that RHEL-5 is finalized.

Not having publicly available SRPMs for the beta versions (meaning
available via public ftp) might be another reason.

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Old 10-11-2008, 08:40 PM
"Stephen John Smoogen"
 
Default

2008/10/11 Ralph Angenendt <ralph+fedora@strg-alt-entf.org>:
> Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
>> 2008/10/11 Jesse Keating <jkeating@redhat.com>:
>>> CentOS should be putting out betas that match the RHEL betas so that you
>>> can get access to it before the release. Use Fedora as the technology
>>> driver, use Betas as the bugfix cleanup for platform issues, and
>>> eventually you get the "Enterprise" release.
>>
>> I think the major problem with CentOS putting out beta's in a timely
>> basis is that a large amount of time is getting the build resources
>> together AND then deciphering various build variables that RHEL uses
>> so that the CentOS binaries 'match' close enough to be bug for bug
>> compatible. The time to do that basically had a CentOS-5beta out at
>> the time that RHEL-5 is finalized.
>
> Not having publicly available SRPMs for the beta versions (meaning
> available via public ftp) might be another reason.

I thought the SRPMS were available, as Scientific Linux uses the
public ones to build their Betas.

I thought it was more a level of priority. CentOS is a volunteer
project with a lot of costs shouldered by the developers. There is
usually a shortage of diskspace, slow net links to various build
machines spread around the world, the fact that various devs have full
time jobs (there is no full-time build manager like Fedora and SciLin
have), and various other items. Any of which puts making betas a lower
priority than dealing with current issues.

--
Stephen J Smoogen. -- BSD/GNU/Linux
How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed
in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice"

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Old 10-11-2008, 08:51 PM
"Arthur Pemberton"
 
Default

On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 3:40 PM, Stephen John Smoogen <smooge@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2008/10/11 Ralph Angenendt <ralph+fedora@strg-alt-entf.org>:
>> Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
>>> 2008/10/11 Jesse Keating <jkeating@redhat.com>:
>>>> CentOS should be putting out betas that match the RHEL betas so that you
>>>> can get access to it before the release. Use Fedora as the technology
>>>> driver, use Betas as the bugfix cleanup for platform issues, and
>>>> eventually you get the "Enterprise" release.
>>>
>>> I think the major problem with CentOS putting out beta's in a timely
>>> basis is that a large amount of time is getting the build resources
>>> together AND then deciphering various build variables that RHEL uses
>>> so that the CentOS binaries 'match' close enough to be bug for bug
>>> compatible. The time to do that basically had a CentOS-5beta out at
>>> the time that RHEL-5 is finalized.
>>
>> Not having publicly available SRPMs for the beta versions (meaning
>> available via public ftp) might be another reason.
>
> I thought the SRPMS were available, as Scientific Linux uses the
> public ones to build their Betas.
>
> I thought it was more a level of priority. CentOS is a volunteer
> project with a lot of costs shouldered by the developers. There is
> usually a shortage of diskspace, slow net links to various build
> machines spread around the world, the fact that various devs have full
> time jobs (there is no full-time build manager like Fedora and SciLin
> have), and various other items. Any of which puts making betas a lower
> priority than dealing with current issues.


For those who can and may have not noticed the link before:
http://www.centos.org/modules/tinycontent/index.php?id=23


--
Fedora 9 : sulphur is good for the skin
( www.pembo13.com )

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Old 10-11-2008, 08:57 PM
Ralph Angenendt
 
Default

Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> 2008/10/11 Ralph Angenendt <ralph+fedora@strg-alt-entf.org>:
> > Not having publicly available SRPMs for the beta versions (meaning
> > available via public ftp) might be another reason.
>
> I thought the SRPMS were available, as Scientific Linux uses the
> public ones to build their Betas.

Scientific builds Betas from the *released* version, not from the RHEL beta
versions. So maybe we should come to terms with "what does Beta mean" ...

> I thought it was more a level of priority. CentOS is a volunteer
> project with a lot of costs shouldered by the developers. There is
> usually a shortage of diskspace, slow net links to various build
> machines spread around the world, the fact that various devs have full
> time jobs (there is no full-time build manager like Fedora and SciLin
> have), and various other items. Any of which puts making betas a lower
> priority than dealing with current issues.

Sure, that also comes into play.

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Old 10-11-2008, 09:33 PM
Patrice Dumas
 
Default

On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 04:58:43PM +0200, Till Maas wrote:
> On Fri October 10 2008, Patrice Dumas wrote:
>
> > support from the boards. Some months ago I proposed something for a
> > fedora lts that was brought down, maybe for good reasons, but the tone
> > of the discussions really showed very few support, and I'd even say some
> > antagonism.
>
> Iirc you would get support in terms of infrastructure in case you have a clear
> proposal and enough people doing the work. Also they should show, that they
> are really interested in doing this for long enough, that it does not look
> like a failed project. E.g. starting now a Fedora LTS project and ending it
> next year, because there are not enough maintainers/people interested in
> doing the work, does not look good for Fedora.

My proposal was clear: start the project when somebody has volunteered
for each of the packages that are in @code and @base (and maybe other
comps groups, I don't remember exactly). And keep a page with the
packages maintained such as not to give wrong expectations.

--
Pat

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