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Old 10-10-2008, 05:56 PM
Michael
 
Default

William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
> <snipped>
> Gotta be more vocal We used to have a larger Debian user base here
> locally. I recall someone with a rather large local deployment all
> Debian. Of course losing Erinn Clark didn't help that. Considering she
> is a principle with Debian's Women, developer, etc.
>
> Debian was my first choice long ago before I ended up with Gentoo when
> leaving another I won't mention. Who knows I may go back to the other
> one day. It's all Linux, so for the most part, all good
>
Erinn! I just love that girl. I only met her once. It was at an
install-fest being held at
some very strange diner/cafe/dance club down at five-points. She
installed Debian on my
computer for me. That was ~four years ago. Anyone know what she is
doing these days?

Michael

Like Erinn used to say, "Off the chain like a rebellious guanine
nucleotide."






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Old 10-10-2008, 05:56 PM
Kevin Kofler
 
Default

Patrice Dumas <pertusus <at> free.fr> writes:
> Still, if somebody provides the infrastructure, sure I'll try to help
> with a project similar than the one I proposed, but I cannot myself do
> anything for the infrastructure part.

All those "we want KDE 3" whiners should be providing the infrastructure for
prolungating Fedora 8 support, they could make it happen. But something tells
me they won't...

Kevin Kofler

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Old 10-10-2008, 07:33 PM
Matthew Miller
 
Default

On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 09:21:42AM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> It's like the old good, fast, cheap adage. Pick two of those because
> that's all you'll ever get.

And in this case "good + fast" is so non-cheap that no one in the world does
it. (Given the proper long-term-support context for "good" -- I certainly
don't mean that Fedora isn't good.)

--
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Senior Systems Architect
Cyberinfrastructure Labs
Computing & Information Technology
Harvard School of Engineering & Applied Sciences

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Old 10-10-2008, 07:38 PM
Toshio Kuratomi
 
Default

Dmitry Butskoy wrote:
> Itamar - IspBrasil wrote:
>>
>> any chance to increase the life of fedora releases ?
>>
>> or fedora will be only blending edge ?
>>
>> In my opinion fedora is losing space from centos and ubuntu
>
> ...
>
>> The brazilian government, one of the biggest Fedora Case of the world is
>> changing from Fedora/ Red Hat to Ubuntu/Debian.
>
> The problem was at an initial point, when Fedora was considered "for
> enthusiasts only". A lot of previous "RedHat Linux enthusiasts" just
> switch to CentOS (and similar RHEL-based systems), no more using Fedora,
> because "it is marked as a non-for-production system even by its creators".
>
The fact that they switched to CentOS is *good* for Fedora. CentOS's
goals are better oriented to the needs of someone that wants to deploy a
system and run it for years. Fedora is good for people who want to get
the latest technologies from upstream as soon as they're stable enough
to integrate into a running system. At the same time, CentOS is a
derivative distro of Fedora. That means that the things you learn in
CentOS will have some bearing on Fedora; the things you learn in Fedora
will have some bearing on CentOS; and if you want to affect the packages
and decisions that go into the next version of CentOS, you can have a
great deal of impact by working on those changes within Fedora.

>
> This situation seems to be reflected in the Fedora project itself.
> Guess, how many Fedora infrastructure servers are run under the latest
> "stable" Fedora release?

As few as possible. The reason is not about stability. It is about
updates. Once Fedora stops getting updates we'd have to upgrade to the
next Fedora release with all of the churn that causes for vastly
unrelated pieces of the OS. We'd much rather spend our time developing
new features of the infrastructure and fixing bugs in our software and
deployments than updating the OS every six months and figuring out what
caused our current services to break when we do.

> Maybe some previois release? How many key
> people work under Fedora Desktop "all the time"?

I'll also add my voice here as someone who runs Fedora on all his
machines. But I have a question of my own: is this a question intended
to inform you of the true facts of what percent of key contributors run
Fedora? Or leading question intended to make people think that Red Hat
employees do not run Fedora without any prior research into the matter?

> (Maybe RedHat employees
> of them are compelled to use RHEL Desktop in basic working hours?)
>
Untrue.

> And finally, when you will discover the actual situation, ask yourself
> -- why Brasilian should use Fedora (and Fedora-based RHEL), when even
> Fedora's fathers do not use it for anything real?
>

So on the one hand, since your base assumptions about usage of Fedora by
key people is not based in fact, I probably shouldn't answer this. On the
other, I'd like to say that there are different distributions for
different purposes. CentOS and RHEL fill one important niche that
Fedora is unsuited for due to its fast pace. Fedora, in turn, is going
to be the place where people who want to get their hands on new
technology sooner are going to want to be.

As for your particular use-case, mentioned in another message, it sounds
like you want to be using CentOS/RHEL and backporting the services you
need (as you say you do now). A distribution is going to be hard
pressed to do what you want in all cases because they have to keep
sanity for all their different customers. If you need a new version of
libxml2 to get a hot new feature, will that cause problems for other
customers? If they need a new version of apache because the modules
they're developing requires it will that cause problems for you?

-Toshio

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Old 10-10-2008, 07:47 PM
Callum Lerwick
 
Default

On Fri, 2008-10-10 at 09:53 -0300, Itamar - IspBrasil wrote:
> forwarding message from Rodrigo Padula
>
> any chance to increase the life of fedora releases ?
>
> or fedora will be only blending edge ?
>
> In my opinion fedora is losing space from centos and ubuntu

We're nearing a release so I guess it's time for dead threads to rise
again:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/Issue117#Long-term_Support_Release

...but I seem to be too late to nip this thread in the bud.
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Old 10-10-2008, 08:05 PM
"Arthur Pemberton"
 
Default

2008/10/10 Toshio Kuratomi <a.badger@gmail.com>:
> Dmitry Butskoy wrote:
>> Itamar - IspBrasil wrote:
>>>
>>> any chance to increase the life of fedora releases ?
>>>
>>> or fedora will be only blending edge ?
>>>
>>> In my opinion fedora is losing space from centos and ubuntu
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> The brazilian government, one of the biggest Fedora Case of the world is
>>> changing from Fedora/ Red Hat to Ubuntu/Debian.
>>
>> The problem was at an initial point, when Fedora was considered "for
>> enthusiasts only". A lot of previous "RedHat Linux enthusiasts" just
>> switch to CentOS (and similar RHEL-based systems), no more using Fedora,
>> because "it is marked as a non-for-production system even by its creators".
>>
> The fact that they switched to CentOS is *good* for Fedora. CentOS's
> goals are better oriented to the needs of someone that wants to deploy a
> system and run it for years.


They switched to Debian and Ubuntu. There is no evidence that they
considered Centos.


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Old 10-10-2008, 08:11 PM
Mike McGrath
 
Default

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008, Arthur Pemberton wrote:

> 2008/10/10 Toshio Kuratomi <a.badger@gmail.com>:
> > Dmitry Butskoy wrote:
> >> Itamar - IspBrasil wrote:
> >>>
> >>> any chance to increase the life of fedora releases ?
> >>>
> >>> or fedora will be only blending edge ?
> >>>
> >>> In my opinion fedora is losing space from centos and ubuntu
> >>
> >> ...
> >>
> >>> The brazilian government, one of the biggest Fedora Case of the world is
> >>> changing from Fedora/ Red Hat to Ubuntu/Debian.
> >>
> >> The problem was at an initial point, when Fedora was considered "for
> >> enthusiasts only". A lot of previous "RedHat Linux enthusiasts" just
> >> switch to CentOS (and similar RHEL-based systems), no more using Fedora,
> >> because "it is marked as a non-for-production system even by its creators".
> >>
> > The fact that they switched to CentOS is *good* for Fedora. CentOS's
> > goals are better oriented to the needs of someone that wants to deploy a
> > system and run it for years.
>
>
> They switched to Debian and Ubuntu. There is no evidence that they
> considered Centos.
>
>

According to the CentOS guys, they used CentOS at some point in time.

-Mike

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Old 10-10-2008, 08:13 PM
Toshio Kuratomi
 
Default

Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> 2008/10/10 Toshio Kuratomi <a.badger@gmail.com>:
>> Dmitry Butskoy wrote:
>>>
>>>> The brazilian government, one of the biggest Fedora Case of the world is
>>>> changing from Fedora/ Red Hat to Ubuntu/Debian.
>>> The problem was at an initial point, when Fedora was considered "for
>>> enthusiasts only". A lot of previous "RedHat Linux enthusiasts" just
>>> switch to CentOS (and similar RHEL-based systems), no more using Fedora,
>>> because "it is marked as a non-for-production system even by its creators".
>>>
>> The fact that they switched to CentOS is *good* for Fedora. CentOS's
>> goals are better oriented to the needs of someone that wants to deploy a
>> system and run it for years.
>
>
> They switched to Debian and Ubuntu. There is no evidence that they
> considered Centos.
>
Clarification: Wikipedia switched to Debian/Ubuntu. Dmitry is talking
about the amorphous mass of "RedHat Linux enthusiasts" during the early
Fedora days.

-Toshio

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Old 10-10-2008, 08:15 PM
"Christopher Brown"
 
Default

2008/10/10 Callum Lerwick <seg@haxxed.com>:
> On Fri, 2008-10-10 at 09:53 -0300, Itamar - IspBrasil wrote:
>> forwarding message from Rodrigo Padula
>>
>> any chance to increase the life of fedora releases ?
>>
>> or fedora will be only blending edge ?
>>
>> In my opinion fedora is losing space from centos and ubuntu
>
> We're nearing a release so I guess it's time for dead threads to rise
> again:
>
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/Issue117#Long-term_Support_Release

No I think this horse is still twitching a litttle...

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http://www.chruz.com

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Old 10-10-2008, 08:53 PM
Matej Cepl
 
Default

On 2008-10-10, 15:49 GMT, Les Mikesell wrote:
> What we need for the same effect now is for the versions of
> fedora that provide the initial RHEL cuts to offer a seamless
> update to the subsequent matching CentOS, repointing to its
> update repositories for continued support.

How is it different from just using CentOS?

Matěj

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