FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 04-05-2008, 11:33 PM
Ron Johnson
 
Default

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 04/05/08 16:24, Hal Vaughan wrote:
> On Saturday 05 April 2008, Paul Johnson wrote:
[snip]
>
> I truly hope you're being facetious because the alternative would be to
> wonder if you've ever talked to any parents.

No, but he talks to lots of... well, never mind. If you really want
to know, it's in the list archives.

>> Seems kind
>> of stupid to put yourself in that kind of ethical dilemma in the
>> first place. It's not like there aren't six billion other people on
>> this already overpopulated rock, plopping out another before you can
>> afford to raise it through age 18 in this day and age ought to be
>> considered child abuse.
>
> Sorry to be so harsh, but there's no other way to call it than to say
> such as statement is shortsighted, overdramatic, and ignorant.
> Planning out the next 18 years is just not possible. Even for the
> independently wealthy, there is no way to be sure you'll have the
> resources in 18 years that you have now.

And of course the poor, ignorant and boorish aren't reading this
list. Why? They're drinking cheap beer and procreating like rabbits.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

We want... a Shrubbery!!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFH+AxaS9HxQb37XmcRArPiAJoDsFQ9/vYc/+DBnWtQeP8m11kSUgCgsX8k
Pego6B+aBhq+SE3GmUR5CeQ=
=QhrW
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 04-05-2008, 11:42 PM
Ron Johnson
 
Default

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 04/05/08 15:57, Mark Allums wrote:
[snip]
>
>
> It's not my mailer, it's me (I use Thunderbird/Mozilla/Icedove), and I
> have to apologize for it. My habit is to hit the reply button, but that
> doesn't work on this list. I used the reply button, when I should have
> used the reply-all button. Sorry about this. I will try to find some
> sticky notes and put a reminder on my monitor until I remember
> automatically. I would really like it if this list were like all others

Maybe it's just because I reply a lot to the list, but IMO it really
doesn't take that long to get that muscle memory going.

> I am on/have ever been on, and used the reply-to field.
>
> I wish that they would set it up to be like this:
>
> From: the poster of the message
> Sender: debian-user-bounces@lists.debian.org
> Reply-to: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> CC: other lists (crosspost)
> BCC: other recipients
>
> I will try to do better in the future.

But of course, we all occasionally Reply-to-sender...

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

We want... a Shrubbery!!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFH+A5SS9HxQb37XmcRAnhqAJ4h7e+q2Ik/yoUJuADMtJub9/YjJwCeLaHK
EAJLOOit6osDHwEVt5r3oms=
=pDwC
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 04-06-2008, 12:46 AM
Nate Duehr
 
Default

On Apr 5, 2008, at 3:24 PM, Hal Vaughan wrote:


Seems kind
of stupid to put yourself in that kind of ethical dilemma in the
first place. It's not like there aren't six billion other people on
this already overpopulated rock, plopping out another before you can
afford to raise it through age 18 in this day and age ought to be
considered child abuse.


Sorry to be so harsh, but there's no other way to call it than to say
such as statement is shortsighted, overdramatic, and ignorant.
Planning out the next 18 years is just not possible. Even for the
independently wealthy, there is no way to be sure you'll have the
resources in 18 years that you have now.

By your standard, less than 2% of the entire world's population should
ever consider parenthood, and those would be the richest 2% on the
planet.

Unless you're at least a multi-millionaire (considering numbers these
days, I'd say worth $3-5 million), you've just qualified yourself as
an

unfit Father.


Not going to dive into the fray about overpopulation and people having
children who can't afford to raise them... but I will comment that
having finished my 2007 taxes here recently, and as a (by choice) non-
parent, I find our society "rewarding" parents by giving a tax break
for each child to be quite distasteful.


I have no problems paying my fair share of taxes, but lowering both
taxable income and this year -- offering a higher rebate as an
"economic stimulus" package-- for people who decided to have or keep
children, is fiscally irresponsible, as it rewards the wrong
behavior. I guess I wouldn't spend that money more readily on capital
goods that would truly help the economy? Yeah right. What world is
this again? The parents with four kids will spend it on higher fuel
costs for soccer mom to rush children from event to event.


As a DINK family (Dual-Income, No Kids and yes, we're a "family" too,
even if we're treated like second-class "family" citizens by almost
every government, religious, and societal group), who probably will be
for our entire lives, we know we're in the minority, and screwed --
when it comes to pointing out to our so-called "representative"
government that handing back more money to someone because they have
children, and/or offering them a lower taxable income number every
year than ours at the same real income level, is blatantly wrong.


--
Nate Duehr
nate@natetech.com




--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 04-06-2008, 12:51 AM
Nate Duehr
 
Default

On Apr 5, 2008, at 3:25 PM, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:


I have seen direct evidence of the problem inherent in reply-to
munging. We had a student reply to an email thinking she was replying
only to the instructor and instead sent her tearful sounding pleas to
the entire class list. Not cool. Much better to err on the side of
sending mail to fewer people than the opposite.



Call me a masochist if you like, but I think stuff like that IS cool.
It also shows very dramatically the inherent problems with using e-
mail for human communication.


If she really was that distressed, why wasn't she in his office for
office hours IMMEDIATELY?


So much for human interaction. You can now beg and plead for
important things in life from your iPhone while drinking a coffee at
Starbucks. (I assume she was begging about a grade or needing help
with the course material, or something similar if she was a student.)


Progress? Not really. Maybe next year she can at least call him via
a videoconference! LOL!


--
Nate Duehr
nate@natetech.com




--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 04-06-2008, 12:55 AM
Ron Johnson
 
Default

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 04/05/08 19:46, Nate Duehr wrote:
[snip]
>
> Not going to dive into the fray about overpopulation and people having
> children who can't afford to raise them... but I will comment that
> having finished my 2007 taxes here recently, and as a (by choice)
> non-parent, I find our society "rewarding" parents by giving a tax break
> for each child to be quite distasteful.
>
> I have no problems paying my fair share of taxes, but lowering both
> taxable income and this year -- offering a higher rebate as an "economic
> stimulus" package-- for people who decided to have or keep children, is
> fiscally irresponsible, as it rewards the wrong behavior. I guess I
> wouldn't spend that money more readily on capital goods that would truly
> help the economy? Yeah right. What world is this again? The parents
> with four kids will spend it on higher fuel costs for soccer mom to rush
> children from event to event.
>
> As a DINK family (Dual-Income, No Kids and yes, we're a "family" too,
> even if we're treated like second-class "family" citizens by almost
> every government, religious, and societal group), who probably will be
> for our entire lives, we know we're in the minority, and screwed -- when
> it comes to pointing out to our so-called "representative" government
> that handing back more money to someone because they have children,
> and/or offering them a lower taxable income number every year than ours
> at the same real income level, is blatantly wrong.

When there are more DINKs than MoDIHKs (Mono or Dual Income, Has
Kids), the law will be changed. Until then, society deems having
children a Good Thing, and thus a government program to help them is
also a Good Thing.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

We want... a Shrubbery!!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFH+B+LS9HxQb37XmcRAuUVAJ9zVIw6SNUqjZp9BR+DEg 9C1JkukQCgpvLm
3SuHIySVNpS7UlNWrxGsYeM=
=ZBB2
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 04-06-2008, 01:04 AM
Ron Johnson
 
Default

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 04/05/08 19:51, Nate Duehr wrote:
>
> On Apr 5, 2008, at 3:25 PM, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
>
>> I have seen direct evidence of the problem inherent in reply-to
>> munging. We had a student reply to an email thinking she was replying
>> only to the instructor and instead sent her tearful sounding pleas to
>> the entire class list. Not cool. Much better to err on the side of
>> sending mail to fewer people than the opposite.
>
>
> Call me a masochist if you like, but I think stuff like that IS cool.
> It also shows very dramatically the inherent problems with using e-mail
> for human communication.
>
> If she really was that distressed, why wasn't she in his office for
> office hours IMMEDIATELY?
>
> So much for human interaction.

And for proof-reading your work before you send it out...

> You can now beg and plead for important
> things in life from your iPhone while drinking a coffee at Starbucks.
> (I assume she was begging about a grade or needing help with the course
> material, or something similar if she was a student.)
>
> Progress? Not really. Maybe next year she can at least call him via a
> videoconference! LOL!

Totally ACK! This is the kind of situation that inflames my
crotchetiness gland and impels me to pull out my cane and ear horn.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

We want... a Shrubbery!!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFH+CGES9HxQb37XmcRAn3rAKCiuyqiG/hC7muJO52cePOO/ebODwCfffIQ
VfMeigAJaqnWiM9LvwtpnuM=
=7pAP
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 04-06-2008, 02:23 AM
Paul Johnson
 
Default

On Saturday 05 April 2008 02:46:41 pm Mark Allums wrote:

> In that case, be prepared to receive lots more broken threads. And not
> just from me. From every newcomer who's ever been on a list before.
> Really, every other mailing list I participate in now, or in the past,
> does it that way. The Debian lists are the exception, not the rule.

This list has been through this before. There's a perfectly good reason any
quality mailer has "reply to list" already.

--
Paul Johnson
baloo@ursine.ca
 
Old 04-06-2008, 02:30 AM
Paul Johnson
 
Default

On Saturday 05 April 2008 02:24:17 pm Hal Vaughan wrote:

> I truly hope you're being facetious because the alternative would be to
> wonder if you've ever talked to any parents.

Of course I know parents, and the ones who don't have anything resembling that
kind of money lined up pretty much have hell to pay for it. It's an
unenviable position that I plain can't understand why anybody would put
themselves in to start with, much less consider normal.

> By your standard, less than 2% of the entire world's population should
> ever consider parenthood, and those would be the richest 2% on the
> planet.

Yes, that's correct. There's not really much of any reason for humans to keep
reproducing at the rate we are. We're gaining a billion people every 10-15
years right now, it's not like we need more numbers.

> Unless you're at least a multi-millionaire (considering numbers these
> days, I'd say worth $3-5 million), you've just qualified yourself as an
> unfit Father.

Actually, my abilities as a potential father aren't the issue and will never
be the issue. I'm childfree.

--
Paul Johnson
baloo@ursine.ca
 
Old 04-06-2008, 02:42 AM
"Telaman Consultancies"
 
Default

>
>
>
>---- Original Message ----
>From: mark@allums.com
>To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>Subject: Re: [Somewhat More OT] Closed source software Was [Re: Hmmm.
>A question.Was [Re: Debian is losing its users]]
>Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 15:57:27 -0500
>
>>Paul Johnson wrote:
>>> On Saturday 05 April 2008 01:18:23 pm Mark Allums wrote:
>>>> Hal Vaughan wrote:
>>>>> Yes, it is an attack on the language, since the other discussion
>(in
>>>>> terms of software) is a matter of degree and freedom is slavery
>is
>>>>> dealing with exact opposites. (Where have I heard that phrase
>about
>>>>> freedom and slavery before?...)
>>>> Freedom is Slavery : Slogan in 1984 by George Orwell
>>>>
>>>> Also:
>>>>
>>>> War is Peace
>>>> Ignorance is Strength
>>>
>>> So what is it when your mailer fails to include proper
>References:, thus
>>> breaking threads, Mark? )
>>>
Damn!!

I've just inhereted this Windows box from an ex-employee that had
installed Thunderbird on it, and woken up to the fact that I've been
doing the same thing myself.
Sorry all.
Regards,

David Palmer
 
Old 04-06-2008, 02:56 AM
Charlie
 
Default

On Sun, 6 Apr 2008, Nate Duehr shared this with us all:
<snip>
>--} By your standard, less than 2% of the entire world's population should
>--} > ever consider parenthood, and those would be the richest 2% on the
>--} > planet.
>--} >
>--} > Unless you're at least a multi-millionaire (considering numbers these
>--} > days, I'd say worth $3-5 million), you've just qualified yourself as *
>--} > an
>--} > unfit Father.
>--}
>--} Not going to dive into the fray about overpopulation and people having *
>--} children who can't afford to raise them... but I will comment that *
>--} having finished my 2007 taxes here recently, and as a (by choice) non-
>--} parent, I find our society "rewarding" parents by giving a tax break *
>--} for each child to be quite distasteful.
>--}
>--} I have no problems paying my fair share of taxes, but lowering both *
>--} taxable income and this year -- offering a higher rebate as an *
>--} "economic stimulus" package-- for people who decided to have or keep *
>--} children, is fiscally irresponsible, as it rewards the wrong *
>--} behavior. *I guess I wouldn't spend that money more readily on capital *
>--} goods that would truly help the economy? *Yeah right. *What world is *
>--} this again? *The parents with four kids will spend it on higher fuel *
>--} costs for soccer mom to rush children from event to event.
>--}
>--} As a DINK family (Dual-Income, No Kids and yes, we're a "family" too, *
>--} even if we're treated like second-class "family" citizens by almost *
>--} every government, religious, and societal group), who probably will be *
>--} for our entire lives, we know we're in the minority, and screwed -- *
>--} when it comes to pointing out to our so-called "representative" *
>--} government that handing back more money to someone because they have *
>--} children, and/or offering them a lower taxable income number every *
>--} year than ours at the same real income level, is blatantly wrong.
>--}
>--} --
>--} Nate Duehr
>--} nate@natetech.com

I suppose by that standard you imagine that children have no worth at all? I
can't really agree. As one who was a child once, I think children are an
extremely valuable asset to a species in the now as well as the future.

So I assume that government feels the same way and is willing to ensure that
people keep having children?

Neanderthal man had children because of sex drive, modern families often want
things other than children because their sex drive can be satisfied without
the obvious result. It is a choice, so each must make their own.

Interesting, and there will always be controversy and views in both
directions.
Charlie
--
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***********************************************
After the ecstasy, the laundry. -----ZEN SAYING

***********************************************
Debian, just the best way to create magic
_______________________________________________
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 02:27 AM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org