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Old 02-11-2010, 09:23 PM
Marcel Rieux
 
Default How do I get digital audio out to my headphones?

As I already said, the only sound I can get at the present time is
analog sound on my computer. I*suppose my HD TV doesn't accept analog
sound, at least not through an HDMI*cable. But, if I plug headphones
in my computer, then the video card and the S/PDIF*wire are not
involved.

Shouldn't digital audio come out on the computer if I select digital
audio in pulseaudio, you know, right clicking the speaker in the top
panel and selecting the digital output in "hardware"?

Also, remember that alsamixer defaults to Card: PulseAudio, Chip:
PulseAudio, with only a setting for Master, which is the same as the
sound setting in the top panel. If I press F6, I*have:

. (default)
0 HDA*ATI*SB
Enter device name

In (default), I*have only a setting for Master, which relates to the
setting I make with the speaker icon in the top panel bar.

The correct entry should be HDA*ATI*SB, as my sound card is an
integrated Sound Blaster, chip Realtek ALC888. Is it OK*if it doesn't
show as default? Should Pulseaudio really be the default?*This is, at
best, rather confusing. If the default should be HDA ATI SB, how to I
change this?

In "0 HDA ATI SB", I*have the same "Master entry". The "Headphone" is
enabled but set to 00 and there's no way to change this.

There are settings there for:

S/PDIF
S/PDIF Default PCM

Both are enabled, or unmuted, if you prefer. Both are set to 0 and
it's impossible to change this setting.

Are those settings correct? How do I get digital audio out of my
computer? If I should normally get digital audio out of my headphones,
Nvidia doesn't seem involved in this.

There was a bug report for "no sound" Fedora 12 rawhide, but it was
supposed that kernel 2.6.30 fixed the problem. Was the problem really
fixed?

Here's (part of) what Cameron Jenkins wrote on 2009-05-06:

"I recently had Ubuntu Jaunty 9.04 on this very same laptop, and I'm pretty sure
I had to use "options snd-hda-intel model=hp-dv4" to get sound to work, but I
have tried that in /etc/modprobe.d/sound and ***nothing shows up in boot logs
indicating the codec has selected that card to use.***"

I see nothing in boot.log pertaining to sound, alsa, codec, sb, snd,
Realtek, ALC888, etc.
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:40 AM
Marko Vojinovic
 
Default How do I get digital audio out to my headphones?

On Thursday 11 February 2010 22:23:34 Marcel Rieux wrote:
> As I already said, the only sound I can get at the present time is
> analog sound on my computer. I suppose my HD TV doesn't accept analog
> sound, at least not through an HDMI cable. But, if I plug headphones
> in my computer, then the video card and the S/PDIF wire are not
> involved.

Do your headphones support digital audio? I've never seen any headphone model
that has an integrated digital-to-analog converter (the so-called DAC), and I
also believe such a thing would require some power to operate (batteries?).

You won't hear anything if you try to use standard headphones or speakers on a
digital-out jack. OTOH, that might be a test --- configure your system to
analog audio, play some music, verify that you can hear it playing, and then
switch to digital. If the headphones get muted, that probably means that audio
went digital. :-)

> Shouldn't digital audio come out on the computer if I select digital
> audio in pulseaudio, you know, right clicking the speaker in the top
> panel and selecting the digital output in "hardware"?

That depends on what app is represented with a speaker icon in the panel. For
me it is kmix, and there is no "hardware" option anywhere.

Rather, open a terminal and start pavucontrol (if you use pulseaudio, and I
think it's a good idea). Then go to "output devices" tab (I see no "hardware"
anything in pavucontrol either), and click on the "port" chooser. My hardware
doesn't support digital audio, so I have only a couple of "analog this" and
"analog that" devices. But if your audio card supports digital audio, then I
guess there should be a "digital this/that" option somewhere among the
choices. Select it. Then go to the "configuration" tab and check that any
options there are also set to "digital whatever".

I guess that should be enough. But before that you should probably play some
music in analog way to make sure nothing is muted and there are no additional
problems.

Finally, you need some equipment connected to the computer that will receive
digital audio, decode it back to analog and hopefully play it for you.

> Also, remember that alsamixer defaults to Card: PulseAudio, Chip:
> PulseAudio, with only a setting for Master, which is the same as the
> sound setting in the top panel. If I press F6, I have:
>
> . (default)
> 0 HDA ATI SB
> Enter device name
>
> In (default), I have only a setting for Master, which relates to the
> setting I make with the speaker icon in the top panel bar.

Yes, pulseaudio should be the default, and have only master slider. That's
because some apps still use old ALSA handle for the volume slider, and you
don't want them to increase/decrease overall system volume, but rather only
their own. So this handle is redirected to pulseaudio which handles the volume
correctly, on a per-app basis.

> The correct entry should be HDA ATI SB, as my sound card is an
> integrated Sound Blaster, chip Realtek ALC888.

No, that would not be correct, as I explained above. You *can* access the
hardware volume controls if you want to tweak them manually, but not by
default.

> Is it OK if it doesn't show as default?

Yes.

> Should Pulseaudio really be the default?

Yes.

> This is, at best, rather confusing.

I tried to explain it above. You try to understand it. :-)

> If the default should be HDA ATI SB, how to I change this?

You should not change it.

> In "0 HDA ATI SB", I have the same "Master entry". The "Headphone" is
> enabled but set to 00 and there's no way to change this.
>
> There are settings there for:
>
> S/PDIF
> S/PDIF Default PCM
>
> Both are enabled, or unmuted, if you prefer. Both are set to 0 and
> it's impossible to change this setting.

All that is because the control is left to pulseaudio, it is not meant to be
mangled manually. Pulseaudio should automatically enable and adjust this or
that switch/slider when it needs it.

If you really really want to tweak those things manually and have the hardware
mixer as the default, you should probably disable pulseaudio. But that has its
own consequences, I wouldn't recommend it unless you really know what you are
doing.

> Are those settings correct? How do I get digital audio out of my
> computer? If I should normally get digital audio out of my headphones,

I believe you mean the headphone jack, right? You won't hear anything digital
if you connect ordinary headphones to a digital-out jack. And what is being
used as a digital-out jack depends on the details of your sound card, I
suggest reading the manual for it. Usually it is the S/PDIF jack, a female
cinch/RCA jack on the soundcard/motherboard, colored orange. If there isn't
one like that, some other connector may be used for digital-out. Look it up in
the manual that came with your card/motherboard.

If you don't have the manual, you should be able to download one from the
manufacturer's website, for your particular hardware model.

> Nvidia doesn't seem involved in this.

It shouldn't be. Even with a HDMI cable, it only passes digital audio through
to the HDMI device that should play it. It doesn't (shouldn't, at least) touch
the signal itself.

> There was a bug report for "no sound" Fedora 12 rawhide, but it was
> supposed that kernel 2.6.30 fixed the problem. Was the problem really
> fixed?

Well, what was actually the problem that was reported? What is the bugzilla
number?

Nobody can tell if that bug is relevant for you unless we see the actual
bugzilla entry. There are multiple sound cards out there, multiple
configurations, multiple audio players, etc. Hence multiple bugs. Not every bug
has relevance for everyone's audio.

> Here's (part of) what Cameron Jenkins wrote on 2009-05-06:
>
> "I recently had Ubuntu Jaunty 9.04 on this very same laptop, and I'm pretty
> sure I had to use "options snd-hda-intel model=hp-dv4" to get sound to
> work, but I have tried that in /etc/modprobe.d/sound and ***nothing shows
> up in boot logs indicating the codec has selected that card to use.***"

This has nothing to do with your sound card, he apparently has Intel hardware.

> I see nothing in boot.log pertaining to sound, alsa, codec, sb, snd,
> Realtek, ALC888, etc.

Why do you expect to see such things in boot.log? I would rather look up in
dmesg and /var/log/messages for anything related to audio, sound, alsa,
pulseaudio and such.

HTH, :-)
Marko


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Old 02-12-2010, 04:00 AM
Marcel Rieux
 
Default How do I get digital audio out to my headphones?

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 8:40 PM, Marko Vojinovic <vvmarko@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday 11 February 2010 22:23:34 Marcel Rieux wrote:

>> As I already said, the only sound I can get at the present time is
>> analog sound on my computer. I suppose my HD TV doesn't accept analog
>> sound, at least not through an HDMI cable. But, if I plug headphones
>> in my computer, then the video card and the S/PDIF wire are not
>> involved.
>
> Do your headphones support digital audio? I've never seen any headphone model
> that has an integrated digital-to-analog converter (the so-called DAC), and I
> also believe such a thing would require some power to operate (batteries?).
>
> You won't hear anything if you try to use standard headphones or speakers on a
> digital-out jack.

According to Wikipedia:

The term "digital" or "digital-ready" is often used for marketing
purposes on speakers or headphones, but these systems are not digital
in the sense described above. Rather, they are conventional speakers
intended for use with digital sound sources (e.g., optical media, MP3
players, etc).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker#Digital_speakers

So, if digital output depends on digital speakers or headphones, it
seems digital output doesn't exist.

Still, digital sound exists... it seems.

> Rather, open a terminal and start pavucontrol (if you use pulseaudio, and I
> think it's a good idea). Then go to "output devices" tab (I see no "hardware"
> anything in pavucontrol either), and click on the "port" chooser.

I*have no port chooser. all I can do under Input is move the Front
Left and Right sliders, which slide as a pair, not independantly.

> My hardware
> doesn't support digital audio, so I have only a couple of "analog this" and
> "analog that" devices. But if your audio card supports digital audio, then I
> guess there should be a "digital this/that" option somewhere among the
> choices. Select it. Then go to the "configuration" tab and check that any
> options there are also set to "digital whatever".

What you have under configuration is what I said I have under Hardware.

> I guess that should be enough. But before that you should probably play some
> music in analog way to make sure nothing is muted and there are no additional
> problems.
>
> Finally, you need some equipment connected to the computer that will receive
> digital audio, decode it back to analog and hopefully play it for you.

If Wikipedia is right, and that's also what I thought, plugging the
headphones in the computer should do it. It doesn't, for digital.

> And what is being
> used as a digital-out jack depends on the details of your sound card,

I don't have a sound card. I have an integrated sound chip.

> I
> suggest reading the manual for it. Usually it is the S/PDIF jack, a female
> cinch/RCA jack on the soundcard/motherboard, colored orange. If there isn't
> one like that, some other connector may be used for digital-out. Look it up in
> the manual that came with your card/motherboard.

I already explained how I installed the S/PDIF*cable. On the mobo,
there's a S/PDIF*Out pin and the other is labelled... ground, if I
remember well. On the video card, one pin is labelled J8, the other
has no labelling. I connected the J8 pin to S/PDIF*out pin.

>> There was a bug report for "no sound" Fedora 12 rawhide, but it was
>> supposed that kernel 2.6.30 fixed the problem. Was the problem really
>> fixed?
>
> Well, what was actually the problem that was reported? What is the bugzilla
> number?

Sorry, I*meant to leave the URL*but forgot:

<https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=499524>

>> Here's (part of) what Cameron Jenkins *wrote on *2009-05-06:
>>
>> "I recently had Ubuntu Jaunty 9.04 on this very same laptop, and I'm pretty
>> *sure I had to use "options snd-hda-intel model=hp-dv4" to get sound to
>> *work, but I have tried that in /etc/modprobe.d/sound and ***nothing shows
>> *up in boot logs indicating the codec has selected that card to use.***"
>
> This has nothing to do with your sound card, he apparently has Intel hardware.

I noticed this but maybe my hardwae has the same problem.

>> I see nothing in boot.log pertaining to sound, alsa, codec, sb, snd,
>> Realtek, ALC888, etc.
>
> Why do you expect to see such things in boot.log?

I was surprised too but that's what the guy who filled the bug suggests.

> I would rather look up in
> dmesg and /var/log/messages for anything related to audio, sound, alsa,
> pulseaudio and such.

output relating to sound in dmesg:

HDA Intel 0000:00:14.2: PCI INT A -> GSI 16 (level, low) -> IRQ 16
hda_codec: Unknown model for ALC888, trying auto-probe from BIOS...
ALSA sound/pci/hda/hda_codec.c:3862: autoconfig: line_outs=4
(0x14/0x15/0x16/0x17/0x0)
ALSA sound/pci/hda/hda_codec.c:3866: speaker_outs=0 (0x0/0x0/0x0/0x0/0x0)
ALSA sound/pci/hda/hda_codec.c:3870: hp_outs=1 (0x1b/0x0/0x0/0x0/0x0)
ALSA sound/pci/hda/hda_codec.c:3871: mono: mono_out=0x0
ALSA sound/pci/hda/hda_codec.c:3874: dig-out=0x1e/0x0
ALSA sound/pci/hda/hda_codec.c:3882: inputs: mic=0x18, fmic=0x19,
line=0x1a, fline=0x0, cd=0x1c, aux=0x0
ALSA sound/pci/hda/hda_codec.c:3884: dig-in=0x1f
ALSA sound/pci/hda/patch_realtek.c:1197: realtek: Enabling init
ASM_ID=0xe601 CODEC_ID=10ec0888
input: HDA Digital PCBeep as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.2/input/input5

output relating to sound in /var/log/messages:

Feb 7 16:34:15 localhost rtkit-daemon[1394]: Sucessfully made thread
1392 of process 1392 (/usr/bin/pulseaudio) owned by '42' high priority
at nice level -11.
Feb 7 16:34:16 localhost rtkit-daemon[1394]: Sucessfully made thread
1401 of process 1392 (/usr/bin/pulseaudio) owned by '42' RT at
priority 5.
Feb 7 16:34:16 localhost rtkit-daemon[1394]: Sucessfully made thread
1402 of process 1392 (/usr/bin/pulseaudio) owned by '42' RT at
priority 5.

(...)

Feb 7 16:34:43 localhost rtkit-daemon[1394]: Sucessfully made thread
1534 of process 1534 (/usr/bin/pulseaudio) owned by '500' high
priority at nice level -11.
Feb 7 16:34:43 localhost kernel: fuse init (API version 7.12)
Feb 7 16:34:44 localhost rtkit-daemon[1394]: Sucessfully made thread
1544 of process 1534 (/usr/bin/pulseaudio) owned by '500' RT at
priority 5.
Feb 7 16:34:45 localhost rtkit-daemon[1394]: Sucessfully made thread
1571 of process 1571 (/usr/bin/pulseaudio) owned by '500' high
priority at nice level -11.
Feb 7 16:34:45 localhost pulseaudio[1571]: pid.c: Daemon already running.

Hope this helps.
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Old 02-12-2010, 06:56 PM
Marko Vojinovic
 
Default How do I get digital audio out to my headphones?

On Friday 12 February 2010 05:00:52 Marcel Rieux wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 8:40 PM, Marko Vojinovic <vvmarko@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thursday 11 February 2010 22:23:34 Marcel Rieux wrote:
> > Do your headphones support digital audio? I've never seen any headphone
> > model that has an integrated digital-to-analog converter (the so-called
> > DAC), and I also believe such a thing would require some power to operate
> > (batteries?).
> >
> > You won't hear anything if you try to use standard headphones or speakers
> > on a digital-out jack.
>
> According to Wikipedia:
>
> The term "digital" or "digital-ready" is often used for marketing
> purposes on speakers or headphones, but these systems are not digital
> in the sense described above. Rather, they are conventional speakers
> intended for use with digital sound sources (e.g., optical media, MP3
> players, etc).
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker#Digital_speakers
>
> So, if digital output depends on digital speakers or headphones, it
> seems digital output doesn't exist.
>
> Still, digital sound exists... it seems.

I don't understand what are you trying to say. That wikipedia article was
about the digital speaker design, which failed as a concept. You should keep
in mind that there is a difference between digital audio (as in digital
transfer of audio data) and digital speakers (as a design for loudspeaker
hardware, different from ordinary speakers).

In order to play digital audio, you need a device which would accept the
digital audio signal from a computer, convert it to analog, amplify and send
to analog speakers. If you want to listen to digital audio via headphones,
such a device should be built into the headphones along with the speakers
themselves. I haven't seen any model of headphones which has this extra
hardware.

> > Rather, open a terminal and start pavucontrol (if you use pulseaudio, and
> > I think it's a good idea). Then go to "output devices" tab (I see no
> > "hardware" anything in pavucontrol either), and click on the "port"
> > chooser.
>
> I have no port chooser. all I can do under Input is move the Front
> Left and Right sliders, which slide as a pair, not independantly.

Are you looking at pavucontrol? What version of Fedora do you use (F12 here)?
I have pavucontrol-0.9.10-1.fc12.x86_64.

> If Wikipedia is right, and that's also what I thought, plugging the
> headphones in the computer should do it. It doesn't, for digital.

As I explained, ordinary headphones just don't reproduce digital audio signal
by themselves. It just isn't supposed to work that way.

> > And what is being
> > used as a digital-out jack depends on the details of your sound card,
>
> I don't have a sound card. I have an integrated sound chip.

Regardless. In case it is integrated, I would expect to see the digital-out
jack on the motherboard --- an orange female RCA jack, labelled "S/PDIF",
alongside with all other motherboard jacks (keyboard, mouse, USB, etc...). If
you don't have one, maybe some other jack is used (look it up in the
motherboard manual), or you need to install a small kit with the jack and a
cable which connects to internal S/PDIF connector on the motherboard (the one
that you used for connecting to video card). These kits should be available in
computer stores, I guess.

> <https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=499524>

I don't see anything in this bug report that is relevant to you. Cameron
apparently had issues with the ALSA driver for his Intel audio hardware. And
this was in the F10 time.

HTH, :-)
Marko


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Old 02-12-2010, 08:00 PM
Marcel Rieux
 
Default How do I get digital audio out to my headphones?

On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Marko Vojinovic <vvmarko@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday 12 February 2010 05:00:52 Marcel Rieux wrote:

>> Still, digital sound exists... it seems.
>
> I don't understand what are you trying to say.

I*had a short disuccion with a friend today. He's how i can sum it up.

There is never digital output to speakers/headphones, even in a
digital TV. The processing is digital but the output has to be analog.
So, if the digital output is enabled on teh computer, the headphones
can't interpret the signal. Only the TV can interpret the signal,
amplify it and output it to its speakers through a Digital to Analog
Converter (DAC).

IOW, it's no use to try to figure why I can't get the sound to my TV
by testing the headphones jack.

>> > Rather, open a terminal and start pavucontrol (if you use pulseaudio, and
>> > I think it's a good idea). Then go to "output devices" tab (I see no
>> > "hardware" anything in pavucontrol either), and click on the "port"
>> > chooser.
>>
>> I have no port chooser. all I can do under Input is move the Front
>> Left and Right sliders, which slide as a pair, not independantly.
>
> Are you looking at pavucontrol? What version of Fedora do you use (F12 here)?
> I have pavucontrol-0.9.10-1.fc12.x86_64.

That's the version I have too. No "port" chooser. See:

http://cjoint.com/?cmv16QTHCI

I*enabled the Fallback option, which wasn't enabled. I*have no idea
what "Set as fallback" is supposed to change.

>> I don't have a sound card. I have an integrated sound chip.
>
> Regardless. In case it is integrated, I would expect to see the digital-out
> jack on the motherboard --- an orange female RCA jack, labelled "S/PDIF",
> alongside with all other motherboard jacks (keyboard, mouse, USB, etc...).

All I want to do is send sound through an ***HDMI****cable to my TV.
The S/PDIF*wire between the motherboard and the NVIDIA*card is
installed. I explained how it is installed in my previous message.
Make a search on J8.
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:12 AM
Tim
 
Default How do I get digital audio out to my headphones?

On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 17:23 -0500, Marcel Rieux wrote:
> As I already said, the only sound I can get at the present time is
> analog sound on my computer. I suppose my HD TV doesn't accept analog
> sound, at least not through an HDMI cable.

If you mean HDMI as per one of these <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdmi>,
then no, it will not accept analog through it. It's an all-digital
connection. Nor can you simply apply S/PDIF to a pair of connectors in
the plug, it's a different type of data format that HDMI carries.

If you have a graphics card that lets you pipe S/PDIF into it, to send
out a digital connection (like HDMI), that card has to adapt the data to
suit. That *could* be done independently by the hardware on the card,
or it *could* require some software driving to make it work (in which
case, you may well need NVidia drivers to do something).

> But, if I plug headphones in my computer, then the video card and the
> S/PDIF wire are not involved.

Correct, if you're connecting ordinary headphones. If you had
headphones with a digital interface, they'd most likely be USB, and
they'd behave as their own sound card. I'm yet to see headphones with
their own S/PDIF input, but it'd be technically feasible.

I don't think I've noticed you say what sort of headphones you're
trying.

> Shouldn't digital audio come out on the computer if I select digital
> audio in pulseaudio, you know, right clicking the speaker in the top
> panel and selecting the digital output in "hardware"?

One would think so, but there might also be other things involved. Your
S/PDIF hardware would have to be supported, as well.

My laptop has a S/PDIF connector (confusingly, it's a shared
dual-purpose plug, that also is used for the headphone output - somehow
it detects which is connected, and supplies the appropriate signal), but
no options seem to show up digital audio hardware as being available for
me to select.

> The correct entry should be HDA ATI SB, as my sound card is an
> integrated Sound Blaster, chip Realtek ALC888. Is it OK if it doesn't
> show as default? Should Pulseaudio really be the default? This is, at
> best, rather confusing. If the default should be HDA ATI SB, how to I
> change this?

System generates audio (a beep, a wave file is played, etc.)...
Goes to pulseaudio to manage... (software volume levels and multiple simultaneous streams)
Pulseaudio goes to the sound hardware... (to generate the actual sound)
If using Alsa, it's mixer has some control over the sound hardware... (hardware volume levels)
And it's as this end of the chain that (Alsa) drivers talk to your hardware.

So, audio software (music players, etc.), are set to use pulseaudio...
Pulseaudio's set to output to the audio hardware you want (if you have several choices).

And, as you can see, from one thing feeding into the other, both
pulseaudio and alsa volume controls (for PCM and master, at least) will
need to be raised to get any audio out.

> In "0 HDA ATI SB", I have the same "Master entry". The "Headphone" is
> enabled but set to 00 and there's no way to change this.

On some sound cards, there's separate controls for separate outputs to
the headphone, versus outputs to the speakers, and/or line outs. On
others, there's only one main output, and they all use it. And on
others, still, there's only one main output, but when it detects a
headphone has been plugged in, it'll flip over to using the headphone
volume level control for controlling the one main output (which is quite
useful when speakers and headphones produce radically different audio
levels).

> There are settings there for:
>
> S/PDIF
> S/PDIF Default PCM
>
> Both are enabled, or unmuted, if you prefer. Both are set to 0 and
> it's impossible to change this setting.

Seems like they're disabled...

I wonder if your hardware has some /smarts/ that detect when a S/PDIF
device is plugged in.

--
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2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

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