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Old 02-07-2010, 07:59 PM
Antonio Olivares
 
Default Zen kernel, what are advantages if any?

Dear fellow Fedora users,

I have read a bit about the zen kernel

http://zen-kernel.org/

and I kindly ask if there are any advantages to running a zen-kernel as opposed to running a Fedora kernel or a native kernel from kernel.org?

I have run Fedora kernels, but on occasions run kernels from kernel.org by copying fedora kernel config to the newly compiled kernel. I know that if I compile one such kernel I will be on my own.

I can make a config based on

http://zen-kernel.org/tutorials/creating-a-light-kernel-configuration

Has anyone on the list built and successfully run a zen based kernel?

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

Regards,

Antonio



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Old 02-08-2010, 03:48 AM
Bill Davidsen
 
Default Zen kernel, what are advantages if any?

Antonio Olivares wrote:
> Dear fellow Fedora users,
>
> I have read a bit about the zen kernel
>
> http://zen-kernel.org/
>
> and I kindly ask if there are any advantages to running a zen-kernel as opposed to running a Fedora kernel or a native kernel from kernel.org?
>
> I have run Fedora kernels, but on occasions run kernels from kernel.org by copying fedora kernel config to the newly compiled kernel. I know that if I compile one such kernel I will be on my own.
>
> I can make a config based on
>
> http://zen-kernel.org/tutorials/creating-a-light-kernel-configuration
>
> Has anyone on the list built and successfully run a zen based kernel?
>
> Thanks for taking the time to answer.
>
I haven't built one in several years, if I need xen I run CentOS (possibly in a
VM). but I will mention that if you want a light kernel the
"make localmodconfig"
option will turn off any modules not loaded. Note that if you have modules you
use from time to time you should modprobe them or turn them on the config before
the build.

That seems to build a kernel which is VERY close to the smallest kernel you can
use. Clearly YMMV, but it would probably work on a xen config as well (have NOT
tried).

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"We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot
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Old 02-08-2010, 04:32 AM
Tony Nelson
 
Default Zen kernel, what are advantages if any?

On 10-02-07 23:48:39, Bill Davidsen wrote:
> Antonio Olivares wrote:
> > Dear fellow Fedora users,
> >
> > I have read a bit about the zen kernel
> >
> > http://zen-kernel.org/
...
> I haven't built one in several years, if I need xen I run CentOS
...

You are so confused.

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Old 02-08-2010, 06:50 AM
Kevin Kofler
 
Default Zen kernel, what are advantages if any?

Antonio Olivares wrote:
> I have read a bit about the zen kernel
>
> http://zen-kernel.org/

Looks like this is a fork of the kernel Linux which hopes for confusion with
Xen to grab people's attention.

They're merging several patches. Some of the stuff they ship (e.g. btrfs) is
also shipped in the Fedora kernels and should be headed for upstream soon
(but e.g. btrfs is not ready for production use, it's not the default in
Fedora for a reason, we ship it only for testing purposes). Some other stuff
(I've noticed at least reiser4 and tuxonice) has been rejected outright and
is likely to never make it into the upstream or Fedora kernel, or at least
not without significant changes. And some of the stuff they merge is just
additional modules which could be built as out-of-tree modules just as well.

I think the Fedora kernel maintainers have more expertise about what patches
are reliable enough for production use and maintainable in the long run than
those "merge everything" folks.

Kevin Kofler

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Old 02-10-2010, 11:13 PM
Bill Davidsen
 
Default Zen kernel, what are advantages if any?

Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Antonio Olivares wrote:
>> I have read a bit about the zen kernel
>>
>> http://zen-kernel.org/
>
> Looks like this is a fork of the kernel Linux which hopes for confusion with
> Xen to grab people's attention.
>
> They're merging several patches. Some of the stuff they ship (e.g. btrfs) is
> also shipped in the Fedora kernels and should be headed for upstream soon
> (but e.g. btrfs is not ready for production use, it's not the default in
> Fedora for a reason, we ship it only for testing purposes). Some other stuff
> (I've noticed at least reiser4 and tuxonice) has been rejected outright and
> is likely to never make it into the upstream or Fedora kernel, or at least
> not without significant changes. And some of the stuff they merge is just
> additional modules which could be built as out-of-tree modules just as well.
>
> I think the Fedora kernel maintainers have more expertise about what patches
> are reliable enough for production use and maintainable in the long run than
> those "merge everything" folks.
>
btrfs is not ready for prime time for sure.

As for TuxOnIce, you can hardly blame people for wanting software which will not
only suspend but includes resume. Suspend/Hibernate are pretty broken, for many
people TOI works.

--
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
"We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot

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Old 02-11-2010, 12:02 PM
Roberto Ragusa
 
Default Zen kernel, what are advantages if any?

Bill Davidsen wrote:

> As for TuxOnIce, you can hardly blame people for wanting software which will not
> only suspend but includes resume. Suspend/Hibernate are pretty broken, for many
> people TOI works.

How true!

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Old 02-11-2010, 01:06 PM
"Bryn M. Reeves"
 
Default Zen kernel, what are advantages if any?

On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 14:02 +0100, Roberto Ragusa wrote:
> Bill Davidsen wrote:
>
> > As for TuxOnIce, you can hardly blame people for wanting software which will not
> > only suspend but includes resume. Suspend/Hibernate are pretty broken, for many
> > people TOI works.
>
> How true!

And for many people ndiswrapper works (for some values of "works"). That
doesn't make it the right way to solve the problem for everyone.

Regards,
Bryn.


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Old 02-11-2010, 01:29 PM
Don Quixote de la Mancha
 
Default Zen kernel, what are advantages if any?

>> > As for TuxOnIce, you can hardly blame people for wanting software which will not
>> > only suspend but includes resume. Suspend/Hibernate are pretty broken, for many
>> > people TOI works.
>>
>> How true!

Thanks for pointing out TuxOnIce. I have been very frustrated by the
"stock" hibernate on my F11 box. I can hibernate OK, and resume
mostly works, but after resuming I am unable to use the network.
Fiddling with ifconfig (down, up and explicitly configuring it)
doesn't help at all. So I just have to shut down completely rather
than hibernate.

> And for many people ndiswrapper works (for some values of "works"). That
> doesn't make it the right way to solve the problem for everyone.

Ideally whatever TuxOnIce has done to make hibernate work reliably
will be merged into the kernel.org source.

But that takes time, and work.

Don Quixote
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Old 02-11-2010, 02:10 PM
Roberto Ragusa
 
Default Zen kernel, what are advantages if any?

Bryn M. Reeves wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 14:02 +0100, Roberto Ragusa wrote:
>> Bill Davidsen wrote:
>>
>>> As for TuxOnIce, you can hardly blame people for wanting software which will not
>>> only suspend but includes resume. Suspend/Hibernate are pretty broken, for many
>>> people TOI works.
>> How true!
>
> And for many people ndiswrapper works (for some values of "works"). That
> doesn't make it the right way to solve the problem for everyone.

Bryn,

implicitly comparing a hack (which runs Windows code in Linux kernel space)
to tuxonice (which is opensource, trying to get merged in mainline for years
and actually working where its official alternatives don't) tells a long
story about how distorted the perception of tuxonice can be.

Best regards
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:41 PM
Marko Vojinovic
 
Default Zen kernel, what are advantages if any?

On Thursday 11 February 2010 15:10:49 Roberto Ragusa wrote:
> Bryn M. Reeves wrote:
> > On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 14:02 +0100, Roberto Ragusa wrote:
> >> Bill Davidsen wrote:
> >>> As for TuxOnIce, you can hardly blame people for wanting software which
> >>> will not only suspend but includes resume. Suspend/Hibernate are pretty
> >>> broken, for many people TOI works.
> >>
> >> How true!
> >
> > And for many people ndiswrapper works (for some values of "works"). That
> > doesn't make it the right way to solve the problem for everyone.
>
> implicitly comparing a hack (which runs Windows code in Linux kernel space)
> to tuxonice (which is opensource, trying to get merged in mainline for
> years and actually working where its official alternatives don't) tells a
> long story about how distorted the perception of tuxonice can be.

So what are the reasons for its absence from the mainline kernel then? If it
works better than the current mechanisms and is open source, why does it take
years to get it into mainline? Is there some showstopper/disadvantage/problem?

Best, :-)
Marko

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